Game Day Thread - League Opener: Eskies

[Brandon]

First Pro start ever and he throws 3 TD's and didn't look terrified ....  an absolute positive sign in my books.   

[TBURGESS]

3 hours ago, WBBFanWest said:

I must have missed it, but who was claiming that he was a world beater?  Most of the posts I saw said he did pretty well considering that he's a 23 year old rookie.  So with that being the case, I'm not sure why you're comparing his stats to Reilly's.  I'd hope that at this point, Reilly's numbers would be better.

Almost everyone is saying what a great game he had. I used Reilly as a comparison of what a good to great QB's stats look like on the same crappy wet night.

I see the first pick differently. Surprise eh? Both Woli and Sherritt came back to the ball. Sherritt made the better play and took the ball away. That being said, Streveler tried, unsuccessfully, to force the ball into a very small spot. The second INT didn't make any difference to the game, but it was still an INT.

I'm sure everyone can agree that Willy, a QB that is universally considered to be bad, had a bad game against BC. He threw for 100+ more yards, had 1 less INT and a significantly better completion % (71.4% vs 53.6%). I'm simply saying that we should hold our QB to the same standards that we hold other teams QB's to.

 

[WBBFanWest]

4 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

Almost everyone is saying what a great game he had. I used Reilly as a comparison of what a good to great QB's stats look like on the same crappy wet night.

I see the first pick differently. Surprise eh? Both Woli and Sherritt came back to the ball. Sherritt made the better play and took the ball away. That being said, Streveler tried, unsuccessfully, to force the ball into a very small spot. The second INT didn't make any difference to the game, but it was still an INT.

I'm sure everyone can agree that Willy, a QB that is universally considered to be bad, had a bad game against BC. He threw for 100+ more yards, had 1 less INT and a significantly better completion % (71.4% vs 53.6%). I'm simply saying that we should hold our QB to the same standards that we hold other teams QB's to.

 

So you honestly think that a guy who has played exactly 0 games should be held to the same standards as the MOP and another guy who has played in this league for several  years?  Ok, colour me shocked that you're trying to take the contrarian view.  Good luck with that.

[SpeedFlex27]

4 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

Almost everyone is saying what a great game he had. I used Reilly as a comparison of what a good to great QB's stats look like on the same crappy wet night.

I see the first pick differently. Surprise eh? Both Woli and Sherritt came back to the ball. Sherritt made the better play and took the ball away. That being said, Streveler tried, unsuccessfully, to force the ball into a very small spot. The second INT didn't make any difference to the game, but it was still an INT.

I'm sure everyone can agree that Willy, a QB that is universally considered to be bad, had a bad game against BC. He threw for 100+ more yards, had 1 less INT and a significantly better completion % (71.4% vs 53.6%). I'm simply saying that we should hold our QB to the same standards that we hold other teams QB's to.

 

But you can't hold a rookie with no experience to a player who is a GC winner, GC MVP, CFL All Star & League MOP. You just can't.  You compare Streveler's performance to the performances of other inexperienced qbs in a similar situation.  That is the only fair way to do it that makes any sense. 

[TBURGESS]

If you think that about 50% completions, under 180 yards, 3 TD's with 2 INT's is a good to great game for any pro QB, that's fine as long as you use the same criteria for other teams young QB's.

I suspect you'd be laughing at the Riders or the Als if one of their young guns lost a game with those stats.I know folks think that Jennings sucks. His stats are better. Willy sucks. His stats are better. Bridge runs hot and cold. His stats are better.

I like what I saw in Streveler, but I've seen young QB's have good first games then not be able to keep it up. Lets not suggest, like one poster, that we look to trade Nichols. Lets not suggest that he's our Franklin or the best player that Walters has brought in. Lets wait for a few weeks to see what we have before we overload the bandwagon.

[SpeedFlex27]

3 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

If you think that about 50% completions, under 180 yards, 3 TD's with 2 INT's is a good to great game for any pro QB, that's fine as long as you use the same criteria for other teams young QB's.

I suspect you'd be laughing at the Riders or the Als if one of their young guns lost a game with those stats.I know folks think that Jennings sucks. His stats are better. Willy sucks. His stats are better. Bridge runs hot and cold. His stats are better.

I like what I saw in Streveler, but I've seen young QB's have good first games then not be able to keep it up. Lets not suggest, like one poster, that we look to trade Nichols. Lets not suggest that he's our Franklin or the best player that Walters has brought in. Lets wait for a few weeks to see what we have before we overload the bandwagon.

I have no idea what your point is here? I really don't. 

[TBURGESS]

47 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

But you can't hold a rookie with no experience to a player who is a GC winner, GC MVP, CFL All Star & League MOP. You just can't.  You compare Streveler's performance to the performances of other inexperienced qbs in a similar situation.  That is the only fair way to do it that makes any sense. 

That's not what I was doing and you know it. I don't expect Streveler to have Reilly's stats or game. I do expect he will get better with reps and experience. I don't think that 1 game in a monsoon against a team without half it's DB's is a realistic yardstick for any QB. Good game or not.

[TBURGESS]

Just now, SpeedFlex27 said:

I have no idea what your point is here? I really don't. 

Read slowly. Then read my reply to you. You're obviously reading something into what I'm writing instead of what's actually there.

[SpeedFlex27]

1 minute ago, TBURGESS said:

That's not what I was doing and you know it. I don't expect Streveler to have Reilly's stats or game. I do expect he will get better with reps and experience. I don't think that 1 game in a monsoon against a team without half it's DB's is a realistic yardstick for any QB. Good game or not.

Like I said, I don't get your point. Are you saying Streveler did or didn't have a good game? Decent game? Poor game? Were you satisfied with Streveler's play? I think if you compare most CFL qbs to Reilly they'll come up short on a good day.  

 

[blueingreenland]

2 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I think if you compare most CFL qbs to Reilly they'll come up short on a good day.  

 

I have only seen a few quarterbacks as elusive on a consistent basis as Reilly in my lifetime....Tracy Hamm, Damon Allan, and Doug Flutie come to mind.

[SpeedFlex27]

26 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

Read slowly. Then read my reply to you. You're obviously reading something into what I'm writing instead of what's actually there.

I truly don't know what you're saying. You compare a CFL rook with no experience to a 6 year multiple CFL all star, Grey Cup champ & MOP & say we should be comparing Streveler's stats to Reilly's 408 yard passing performance & admit he came up short.  So, therefore he didn't play well at all. That's how I read what you said & I can't make any sense of it.

I was pleased by Streveler's performance. He threw 3 TD passes & I'm happy with that.  I think he did better than just okay & I expected Reilly would outplay him. anyway  As far as saying Willy had  better stats but we all dump on him? Well again DW is a veteran qb but he plays timidly. He tries to play safe but invariably screws up as he did last night with that pick.  He won't take chances then throws the game away with dumb decisions. He plays not to lose which he usually does & not to win which he rarely does. Willy's had his run & it hasn't been very good. That's how I look at Drew Willy as a CFL qb,

I see POTENTIALLY a much better upside to Streveler than there ever was with Willy.  More  athletic, the ability to run with the ball & a strong arm. Will he ever reach his full potential? Damned if I know but we'll see how he is developed after Nichols gets back. 

Edited June 18, 2018 by SpeedFlex27

[TBURGESS]

7 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I truly don't know what you're saying. You compare a CFL rook with no experience to a 6 year multiple CFL all star, Grey Cup champ & MOP & say we should be comparing Streveler's stats to Reilly's 408 yard passing performance & admit he came up short.  So, therefore he didn't play well at all. That's how I read what you said & I can't make any sense of it.

I was pleased by Streveler's performance. He threw 3 TD passes & I'm happy with that.  I think he did better than just okay & I expected Reilly would outplay him. anyway  As far as saying Willy had  better stats but we all dump on him? Well again DW is a veteran qb but he plays timidly. He tries to play safe but invariably screws up as he did last night with that pick.  He won't take chances then throws the game away with dumb decisions. He plays not to lose which he usually does & not to win which he rarely does. Willy's had his run & it hasn't been very good. That's how I look at Drew Willy as a CFL qb,

I see POTENTIALLY a much better upside to Streveler than there ever was with Willy.  More  athletic, the ability to run with the ball & a strong arm. Will he ever reach his full potential? Damned if I know but we'll see how he is developed after Nichols gets back. 

I showed the 2 QB's stats on the same night in the same conditions.That's not at all the same as saying we should compare Reilly to Streveler straight up. I didn't say that Streveler didn't play well at all. In fact, I said he had a pretty good game for a rookie and he wasn't the main reason we lost (That would be Hall). I see that you read something that wasn't there then complained about what you read into what I said. I expect that from a bunch of fans on this site, but didn't expect it from you. My bad for expecting you to see both sides of the equation when it comes to our QB.

I checked the QB stats for everyone in the league week 1. Streveler was 8th in yards, 7th in completion %, 9th in Int %, 7th in Avg yards per throw, and 1st in TD's thrown. That's how he compared to the rest of QB's in the league.

My point is that one game doesn't make a career. Now isn't the time to say that Sreveler is the best player that Walters has brought in or that we can shop Nichols and that's what some folks have been saying. You've been watching the game about as long as I have so I know you've seen a bunch of QB's come along and play a good game or two then fade away to obscurity. IIRC a bunch of them had their one good game against us.

If we're talking potential, and we weren't up until this point, then I agree that Streveler has the potential to be a good to great CFL QB. His ability to run, which would be spun as 'can't read a defense' on any other team, gives him a weapon that some other QB's don't have and he has a good arm. Physically, he has everything you need, but that's not always enough. Based on what I've seen so far, I'm more of a Streveler fan than I ever was a Willy fan.

[Atomic]

I think it's silly to expect a rookie to play as well as the reigning MOP.  Streveler played a decent game and threw more TDs than any other QB in week one.  He certainly played a lot better than Drew Willy... I don't care what the stats say.  The stats said Drew Willy was an all star in early 2016 but he lost his job because we all know that wasn't true.

[Arnold_Palmer]

3 minutes ago, Atomic said:

I think it's silly to expect a rookie to play as well as the reigning MOP.  Streveler played a decent game and threw more TDs than any other QB in week one.  He certainly played a lot better than Drew Willy... I don't care what the stats say.  The stats said Drew Willy was an all star in early 2016 but he lost his job because we all know that wasn't true.

Drew Willy’s stats don’t look too bad because he rarely throws the ball more then 5 yards down the field. I got tired of it being second and long and he hits a guy for a three yard gain. 

[WBBFanWest]

1 hour ago, TBURGESS said:

I showed the 2 QB's stats on the same night in the same conditions.That's not at all the same as saying we should compare Reilly to Streveler straight up. I didn't say that Streveler didn't play well at all. In fact, I said he had a pretty good game for a rookie and he wasn't the main reason we lost (That would be Hall). I see that you read something that wasn't there then complained about what you read into what I said. I expect that from a bunch of fans on this site, but didn't expect it from you. My bad for expecting you to see both sides of the equation when it comes to our QB.

I checked the QB stats for everyone in the league week 1. Streveler was 8th in yards, 7th in completion %, 9th in Int %, 7th in Avg yards per throw, and 1st in TD's thrown. That's how he compared to the rest of QB's in the league.

My point is that one game doesn't make a career. Now isn't the time to say that Sreveler is the best player that Walters has brought in or that we can shop Nichols and that's what some folks have been saying. You've been watching the game about as long as I have so I know you've seen a bunch of QB's come along and play a good game or two then fade away to obscurity. IIRC a bunch of them had their one good game against us.

If we're talking potential, and we weren't up until this point, then I agree that Streveler has the potential to be a good to great CFL QB. His ability to run, which would be spun as 'can't read a defense' on any other team, gives him a weapon that some other QB's don't have and he has a good arm. Physically, he has everything you need, but that's not always enough. Based on what I've seen so far, I'm more of a Streveler fan than I ever was a Willy fan.

I saw no one declare Streveler to be anything but a rookie who had a good outing FOR A ROOKIE IN HIS FIRST CFL GAME AS STARTER.  If you want to compare stats, then don't check out what the other QB's did this past week.  Instead go back and see how they did when they were starter in the opening game of their rookie year.  Oh wait, NO ONE else since Calvillo  has done that, so I guess you really don't have a lot to compare his debut with.  The closest thing you might be able to come up with is how they did in their first game as a starter in the CFL.  Get back to us on that would you?  Thanks.

Oh, and by the way, only one poster has suggested that we could shop Nichols around and I think you can see how people responded to that "genius idea".

Trying to drum up an argument where none existed.  Who would have guessed...

Edited June 18, 2018 by WBBFanWest

[TBURGESS]

40 minutes ago, WBBFanWest said:

I saw no one declare Streveler to be anything but a rookie who had a good outing FOR A ROOKIE IN HIS FIRST CFL GAME AS STARTER.  If you want to compare stats, then don't check out what the other QB's did this past week.  Instead go back and see how they did when they were starter in the very first game of their rookie year.  Oh wait, NO ONE else since Calvillo  has done that, so I guess you really don't have a lot to compare his debut with.  The closest thing you might be able to come up with is who they did in their first game as a starter in the CFL.  Get back to us on that would you?  Thanks.

Oh, and by the way, only one poster has suggested that we could shop Nichols around and I think you can see how people responded to that "genius idea".

Trying to drum up an argument where none existed.  Who would have guessed...

You don't think it's good to compare our QB to any of the other QB's in the league? 😂 I guess that's cuz his stats aren't that good when you do make the comparison.

Compare stats from this year to Calvillo way back in 1994? What use would that be? It was a different game back then and he was on an expansion team. Streveler is on a GC contender with a good to great OC and a lot of weapons at his disposal. Find me another rookie QB starting his first game on a GC contending team against another GC contending team, who is missing half their DB's, on a monsoon day, with 2 long stoppages of play, no half time, in the longest single game in CFL history to compare with and I'll happily find the stats.

I'm pretty certain we would have won if Nichols started, so a better QB would have made a difference.

All I said, was he was good, not great. That shouldn't start an argument, but of course, around here it does. 😬

[Jpan85]

People makin a lot of about the weather but when they were actually playing it was not raining. Field was wet but the refs did a pretty good job making sure the balls were as dry as possible.

[WBBFanWest]

11 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

You don't think it's good to compare our QB to any of the other QB's in the league? 😂 I guess that's cuz his stats aren't that good when you do make the comparison.

Compare stats from this year to Calvillo way back in 1994? What use would that be? It was a different game back then and he was on an expansion team. Streveler is on a GC contender with a good to great OC and a lot of weapons at his disposal. Find me another rookie QB starting his first game on a GC contending team against another GC contending team, who is missing half their DB's, on a monsoon day, with 2 long stoppages of play, no half time, in the longest single game in CFL history to compare with and I'll happily find the stats.

I'm pretty certain we would have won if Nichols started, so a better QB would have made a difference.

All I said, was he was good, not great. That shouldn't start an argument, but of course, around here it does. 😬

God, your shtick is getting old and were only one game in.  Going to be a long season...

[Booch]

First start...first look at live "real" game speed....didn't panic...didn't do the usual dumb rookie mistakes...less than optimal conditions..first time with first team starters...he did pretty good...and next game will be better as things slow down, and he finds his way.

 

What I liked is he didn't just lock onto his primary read/look and set himself up for being picked easily, or allow defense to limit gains..You can see him going through progressions and 2nd and 3rd looks...some QB's in this league who have been here a while still aren't doing that...so the future looks good with him...and you can't discount his wheels and running ability...he's also built different than most QB's as well...so he can take some hits...on his one run he rocked the one DB and he was partly stunned from the hit..

[17to85]

19 minutes ago, Booch said:

What I liked is he didn't just lock onto his primary read/look and set himself up for being picked easily, or allow defense to limit gains..You can see him going through progressions and 2nd and 3rd looks...some QB's in this league who have been here a while still aren't doing that...so the future looks good with him...and you can't discount his wheels and running ability...he's also built different than most QB's as well...so he can take some hits...on his one run he rocked the one DB and he was partly stunned from the hit..

You know what really stood out to me, on the touchdown to Wolitarsky he gave the db a little fake like he was getting the ball out quick and made the guy bite leaving a wide open Wolitarsky in the endzone. That's good stuff right there and makes me think this Streveler kid knows how to play the position. 

[WBBFanWest]

15 minutes ago, Booch said:

First start...first look at live "real" game speed....didn't panic...didn't do the usual dumb rookie mistakes...less than optimal conditions..first time with first team starters...he did pretty good...and next game will be better as things slow down, and he finds his way.

 

What I liked is he didn't just lock onto his primary read/look and set himself up for being picked easily, or allow defense to limit gains..You can see him going through progressions and 2nd and 3rd looks...some QB's in this league who have been here a while still aren't doing that...so the future looks good with him...and you can't discount his wheels and running ability...he's also built different than most QB's as well...so he can take some hits...on his one run he rocked the one DB and he was partly stunned from the hit..

So Booch, you're saying that there are things other than hard stats that one might need to consider when making an accurate assessment?  That there's more to evaluating performance than looking at five or six hard stats.  Are you suggesting that there is actual skill involved in making judgments on players and that having a 6 column spreadsheet might not be enough?  Mind blown...

[Booch]

1 minute ago, WBBFanWest said:

So Booch, you're saying that there are things other than hard stats that one might need to consider when making an accurate assessment?  That there's more to evaluating performance than looking at five or six hard stats.  Are you suggesting that there is actual skill involved in making judgments on players and that having a 6 column spreadsheet might not be enough?  Mind blown...

HA!! Yup more or less

[Mark F]

58 minutes ago, WBBFanWest said:

God, your shtick is getting old and were only one game in.  Going to be a long season...

burgess actually posted some semi positive comments post game.

Back to form now it appears.

 

Edited June 18, 2018 by Mark F

[17to85]

33 minutes ago, WBBFanWest said:

So Booch, you're saying that there are things other than hard stats that one might need to consider when making an accurate assessment?  That there's more to evaluating performance than looking at five or six hard stats.  Are you suggesting that there is actual skill involved in making judgments on players and that having a 6 column spreadsheet might not be enough?  Mind blown...

No you're wrong, if you can't out play the leagues reigning MOP in your very first taste of pro action you are complete and utter trash!

[WBBFanWest]

4 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

No you're wrong, if you can't out play the leagues reigning MOP in your very first taste of pro action you are complete and utter trash!

You know, that's what I was thinking too.  I mean if you can't rise to the occasion and play to the level of the best QB in the CFL in your first try, why are you even bothering.  I'm hoping that O'Shea and LaPolice have sat Streveler down, shown him their 6 column spreadsheet and explained that he better pick up the bloody pace, or else.