D for Disaster (not D Fence)

[USABomberfan]

3 minutes ago, SPuDS said:

Yup. You can tell so much from one game in a monsoon with 4 different starters.

 

 

🙄

No I can tell so much from 4 seasons he's been here costing us playoff wins.

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, do or die said:

Overall....is actually is better.....beaten by a great QB, who got some big-time catches. from talented R corps.   There weren't any massive busts, in the coverage.  Fogg and Alexander held up pretty good on that side....but Gaitor got roughed up quite a bit.   The distressing part is not making the stops in crunch time, and losing like that.....

agree very much. the stops in clutch were the prevent defense. But also, it was week 1, past 1 in the morning with two lengthy stops, we had a good bit of change over from last year and no mo. And yeah reilly just played perfectly. even the pic fogg snagged was a monster play. over the shoulder in front of the wr Nothing he did wrong. The wrs made some great plays. Its not the big plays, its what we do after the other team makes big plays that decides games. With this level of athlete and skill teams are gonna make plays especially in the cfl.

[Colin Unger]

Personally I'd like to see us put Fenner at halfback once Mo is back.  It was very evident that Gaitor doesn't have the height/vertical out there and at least Fenner is 6'1...  That game made we wish we had kept Saisay around.

[BigBlue]

The  point is the defensive schemes on the last two drives were both  not working and predictable:blitz two and blitz two and blitz two when the blitzes weren't working

I  don't know who was calling the defenses but at games end it was awful: go into normal coverage with the occasional (surprise) blitz ... we  just let Reilly pick us apart .... a little football IQ to let the defense make plays and we win

Was this on Ritchie?

[DR. CFL]

It isn’t necessarily run to surprise an offence. It can be effectively run to out man and create odd man pressure on the offensive lineman. Perhaps it was felt that they weren’t able to effectively pressure Riley with a 4 man rush.  The other issue still remains is the secondary at fault due to poor schemes or below average personnel. Some people on this forum seem to feel they are uniquely qualified to make that determination.

[TheSource]

2 hours ago, DR. CFL said:

It isn’t necessarily run to surprise an offence. It can be effectively run to out man and create odd man pressure on the offensive lineman. Perhaps it was felt that they weren’t able to effectively pressure Riley with a 4 man rush.  The other issue still remains is the secondary at fault due to poor schemes or below average personnel. Some people on this forum seem to feel they are uniquely qualified to make that determination.

They were getting ZERO pressure on the 4 man rush and Reilly was going deep and easily completing intermediate routes whenever they did that. That's why they were blitzing all the time. CJOB specifically commented on this multiple times through the game. Ogopogo was useless - one of his worst games as a Bomber, and Jeffcoat appears to be less than average now that the rookie luck has run dry.

It is probably simplistic thinking, but it appears the Bombers coaching, just like the Bomber fans, figure that Bighill is the savior and is going to do it all himself by blitzing every down.

 

[Jpan85]

That  last drive TO got held on a couple second and longs. Got a great jump,but was hog,tied by the OL.

[SpeedFlex27]

7 hours ago, BigBlue said:

The  point is the defensive schemes on the last two drives were both  not working and predictable:blitz two and blitz two and blitz two when the blitzes weren't working

I  don't know who was calling the defenses but at games end it was awful: go into normal coverage with the occasional (surprise) blitz ... we  just let Reilly pick us apart .... a little football IQ to let the defense make plays and we win

Was this on Ritchie?

Of course it's on Ritchie. He picks the players, designs the schemes & calls the defense. It's ALL on him.  Of course we all knew this last year & going into the off season that he needed to go but O'Shea did nothing. 

[DR. CFL]

4 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Of course it's on Ritchie. He picks the players, designs the schemes & calls the defense. It's ALL on him.  Of course we all knew this last year & going into the off season that he needed to go but O'Shea did nothing. 

And you know Hall picks the players? The GM and player personnel gurus bring in the players that the position coaches are left to work with and then collectively the coaching staff picks.  Give them a basket of rotten apples and you get to pick the least rotten ones I guess.

[blitzmore]

13 minutes ago, DR. CFL said:

And you know Hall picks the players? The GM and player personnel gurus bring in the players that the position coaches are left to work with and then collectively the coaching staff picks.  Give them a basket of rotten apples and you get to pick the least rotten ones I guess.

Yeah right...we have a bunch of rotten apples, which got us to the playoffs last year. Sure you need good players, but how the defence is run makes the huge difference. With the SAME players we have, and Chris Jones for a defensive coordinator, things would improve by a large amount.

[pigseye]

10 hours ago, TheSource said:

They were getting ZERO pressure on the 4 man rush and Reilly was going deep and easily completing intermediate routes whenever they did that. That's why they were blitzing all the time. CJOB specifically commented on this multiple times through the game. Ogopogo was useless - one of his worst games as a Bomber, and Jeffcoat appears to be less than average now that the rookie luck has run dry.

It is probably simplistic thinking, but it appears the Bombers coaching, just like the Bomber fans, figure that Bighill is the savior and is going to do it all himself by blitzing every down.

 

The front four was disappointing. But what was the safety doing on the bomb to Walker, he had cheated to the other side of the field even though Reilly never looked that way once. I'm going to write this one off as rust or new personnel still getting to know each other.  Hope it changes because this was another typical Rich Hall performance. 

[Atomic]

1 hour ago, blitzmore said:

Yeah right...we have a bunch of rotten apples, which got us to the playoffs last year. Sure you need good players, but how the defence is run makes the huge difference. With the SAME players we have, and Chris Jones for a defensive coordinator, things would improve by a large amount.

Give us Charleston Hughes and Willie Jefferson at DE and things would improve by a large amount.  Our DEs were not looking effective at all and that's not on Hall.

Edited June 16, 2018 by Atomic

[USABomberfan]

14 hours ago, BigBlue said:

The  point is the defensive schemes on the last two drives were both  not working and predictable:blitz two and blitz two and blitz two when the blitzes weren't working

I  don't know who was calling the defenses but at games end it was awful: go into normal coverage with the occasional (surprise) blitz ... we  just let Reilly pick us apart .... a little football IQ to let the defense make plays and we win

Was this on Ritchie?

I'm pretty sure we all know the answer to that one.

[USABomberfan]

9 minutes ago, Atomic said:

Give us Charleston Hughes and Willie Jefferson at DE and things would improve by a large amount.  Our DEs were not looking effective at all and that's not on Hall.

Reilly is tough to bring down and we all know this.

What's driving everyone crazy is we've never changed a damn thing in the way we've game planned against their offense and he knows what Richie Hall is throwing at him.  He knows when he's going to get one on one coverage outside, soft zone, etc.  If you don't change things up and keep running the same thing over and over, you'll get beat by the good QBs every time.

Claybrooks keeps causing havoc on opposing offenses because he's always changing things up all the time and bringing unpredictability.  That's why he is elite and Hall is a dud who gets figured out by a every good offensive coordinator and QB.

[Atomic]

13 minutes ago, USABomberfan said:

Reilly is tough to bring down and we all know this.

What's driving everyone crazy is we've never changed a damn thing in the way we've game planned against their offense and he knows what Richie Hall is throwing at him.  He knows when he's going to get one on one coverage outside, soft zone, etc.  If you don't change things up and keep running the same thing over and over, you'll get beat by the good QBs every time.

Claybrooks keeps causing havoc on opposing offenses because he's always changing things up all the time and bringing unpredictability.  That's why he is elite and Hall is a dud who gets figured out by a every good offensive coordinator and QB.

Yes but our DEs are not even close to being in the same class as Jefferson and Hughes.  That's an issue.

[Mark F]

16 minutes ago, Atomic said:

Yes but our DEs are not even close to being in the same class as Jefferson and Hughes.  That's an issue.

maybe should have kept Montgomery around. 

He was a real force. 

do not know if it was the same O line.

it's true it's only one game, it's Mike Reilly, but  this is not encouraging.

He may be the best qb in the league, but there are other really good ones.

 

Edited June 16, 2018 by Mark F

[Super Duper Negatron]

The dline was getting pressure all game. They were not the problem.

[Atomic]

4 minutes ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

The dline was getting pressure all game. They were not the problem.

Interior looked okay.  I'm pretty confident in saying we have bottom 3 DEs though.  Oko is as strong as a bull but his jump off the line is pathetically slow.  Jeffcoat and Roh are basically the definition of the word average.

[USABomberfan]

Of course they'll probably look like world beaters next week against Montreal, but once we face the good offenses again that will disappear.

[JuranBoldenRules]

53 minutes ago, Atomic said:

Interior looked okay.  I'm pretty confident in saying we have bottom 3 DEs though.  Oko is as strong as a bull but his jump off the line is pathetically slow.  Jeffcoat and Roh are basically the definition of the word average.

I vehemently disagree.  Jeffcoat and Roh were in the backfield all night, Jeffcoat especially was eating the Eskimo tackles alive.  Okpalaugo had a couple hurries.  Nevis was dominant.  Corney played well off the edge when he came in.  There is a big continued issue with discipline that is costing us sacks, guys not staying in their rush lanes and over pursuing.  The main culprits are JSK and Poop.  Poop is very inconsistent and started losing reps to Thomas again.  If he plays like he did Thursday for a couple more games I think we'll see Bryant.

The blitzing linebackers through the middle every passing down just becomes predictable.  They need to switch that up and have someone spy the QB to clean up when a guy like Reilly moves around the pocket and sometimes out of it when pressure comes.

The biggest issue I see with this defense is how they use the safety position, and maybe what Loffler's abilities are in coverage.  It's hard to tell between the two what the issue is.  There's not a lot of support at the top of routes for our DB's.  You get into a position where they get isolated a lot downfield and you end up with PI's or big plays.  I mean they could make 2/3 plays but that 1 is still a 40+ yard gain because of the heavy amount of cover 0/1 we play with LB's always blitzing on passing downs, Loffler blitzing a lot and being asked to cover the whole field in cover 1.  The aggressiveness of the blitzing isn't resulting in the big plays for the D often enough to make up for the big plays they give up.  There needs to be a balance there and some deception so the QB can't count our LB's as rushers or guys in coverage with certainty every down.

[Bigblue204]

1 hour ago, Atomic said:

Interior looked okay.  I'm pretty confident in saying we have bottom 3 DEs though.  Oko is as strong as a bull but his jump off the line is pathetically slow.  Jeffcoat and Roh are basically the definition of the word average.

How many times were they playing to contain?

[Atomic]

45 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

I vehemently disagree.  Jeffcoat and Roh were in the backfield all night, Jeffcoat especially was eating the Eskimo tackles alive.  Okpalaugo had a couple hurries.  Nevis was dominant.  Corney played well off the edge when he came in.  There is a big continued issue with discipline that is costing us sacks, guys not staying in their rush lanes and over pursuing.  The main culprits are JSK and Poop.  Poop is very inconsistent and started losing reps to Thomas again.  If he plays like he did Thursday for a couple more games I think we'll see Bryant.

The blitzing linebackers through the middle every passing down just becomes predictable.  They need to switch that up and have someone spy the QB to clean up when a guy like Reilly moves around the pocket and sometimes out of it when pressure comes.

The biggest issue I see with this defense is how they use the safety position, and maybe what Loffler's abilities are in coverage.  It's hard to tell between the two what the issue is.  There's not a lot of support at the top of routes for our DB's.  You get into a position where they get isolated a lot downfield and you end up with PI's or big plays.  I mean they could make 2/3 plays but that 1 is still a 40+ yard gain because of the heavy amount of cover 0/1 we play with LB's always blitzing on passing downs, Loffler blitzing a lot and being asked to cover the whole field in cover 1.  The aggressiveness of the blitzing isn't resulting in the big plays for the D often enough to make up for the big plays they give up.  There needs to be a balance there and some deception so the QB can't count our LB's as rushers or guys in coverage with certainty every down.

Zero sacks for the DL.  Same thing we saw last year after Westerman got injured... this isn't a new issue or limited to one game.  They can't finish.  DEs getting into the backfield means nothing if they aren't bringing down the QB or forcing him into bad throws.  Nevis looked good, I agree with that.  The rest of the line was totally ineffective.  It's really concerning.

[17to85]

Reilly has made a career of escaping sacks when he should be down without issue. I won't get on the defensive line too much because that's what makes Reilly the qb he is, that ability to escape situations.

[Atomic]

6 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Reilly has made a career of escaping sacks when he should be down without issue. I won't get on the defensive line too much because that's what makes Reilly the qb he is, that ability to escape situations.

He's really good at it but I've seen him get sacked before.  He is not invincible.  The problem here is that we are going to have to beat Reilly to win the Grey Cup. It's not okay that the DL got zero sacks because Reilly is evasive... I don't buy it.  They simply have to be better.

[Mark F]

2 hours ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

The dline was getting pressure all game. They were not the problem.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but

I just watched the first half. I didn't see many plays where they were getting a lot of pressure.

Edmonton Last drive of the half, there was basically none. went down the field with very little time, for a field goal.

I saw one nice play by JSK where he threw Reilly around and sacked him.

And one nice play by Nevis where he ducked around a lineman, and stopped their running back for no gain.

Unfortunately I also saw a play that reminded me of last year.... They ran Bighill right  into the middle of their O line; he was bounced around by two O lineman, and that was it.

same play people used to complain about with Hurl. 

 

 

Edited June 16, 2018 by Mark F