Should Walters, Miller And The Board Of Directors Put Pressure On MOS To Fire Hall?

[White Out]

6 hours ago, ALuCsRED said:

At the half, the score was 17-0.

 

Multiple Choice Question:  At halftime, If I told you that the Bomber defence would give up only 20 points in the 2nd half, would you be:

..

Wait, ONLY 20 points?

Projected over a full  game 20 points works out to... *runs some complicated algorithms* 40 points. I don't think anyone is cracking open a beer celebrating 20 points surrendered per half.

Team loss. Period.

[wbbfan]

18 minutes ago, do or die said:

This D has collapsed in 2 playoff games.  This year..... got blown away by Hamilton and couldn't make a stop in crunch time, against Edmonton and BC.

So I am still a bit nervous about it.....

 

At the same time edm was a freak game and we gave up 20 points to bc. If you lose a game where you give up 20 points, and dont score for nearly a half of football that cant be too heavy on the D. They were on the field far too much in bc.

Do i worry about the D? Only when the other team runs the ball, we are up by less then 2 scores or its late in the game aka super prevent time. 

One day we will again have a ferocious D that fights to prevent each first down, doesnt give up gigantic plays every week and tackles well week in and week out.  one day...

[do or die]

Well, they call it crunch time.....for a reason.

Understand, the O is not off the hook - they played 30 minutes of totally inept football

[TBURGESS]

1 hour ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

That logic is faulty. get up- go do 40 wind-sprints, come back and tell me you're not tired and gassed and I will wag my finger at you and tell you "There is NO way you should be gassed- you should be well ******* rested after sitting on your duff all morning."

You're comparison is faulty. It's not about what an old guy who sits around the house can do. It's about what a professional athlete can do. The defense doesn't do 40 wind-sprints in a row. They do a few then take a break and repeat. If the defense wants more breathers, they need to stop the offense from getting first downs. 

The idea that the defense gets tired when the TOP is almost equal is flawed from the get go. 

 

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, wbbfan said:

At the same time edm was a freak game and we gave up 20 points to bc. If you lose a game where you give up 20 points, and dont score for nearly a half of football that cant be too heavy on the D. They were on the field far too much in bc.

Do i worry about the D? Only when the other team runs the ball, we are up by less then 2 scores or its late in the game aka super prevent time. 

One day we will again have a ferocious D that fights to prevent each first down, doesn't give up gigantic plays every week and tackles well week in and week out.  one day...

I have heard the old ones speak of such things in hushed tones late at night around the fire.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

11 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

You're comparison is faulty. It's not about what an old guy who sits around the house can do. It's about what a professional athlete can do. The defense doesn't do 40 wind-sprints in a row. They do a few then take a break and repeat. If the defense wants more breathers, they need to stop the offense from getting first downs. 

The idea that the defense gets tired when the TOP is almost equal is flawed from the get go. 

 

it was a comedic analogy... In no way am I saying that a old outta shape dude is on par with a professional athlete- I find it distressing that you fail to pick up on that. 

So- you are telling me that it doesn't matter how that ToP is spread out? You equate the physical fatigue of 2 min on, 2 mins off, 2 minutes on, 2 minutes off, 2 minutes on, 2 minutes off, 2 minutes on, 2 minutes off, 2 minutes on, 2 minutes off, 2 minutes on, 2 minutes off, 2 minutes on, 2 minutes off, 2 minutes on. 

to 

14 minutes off, 16 minutes on.

???

Tell you what, go and run a Kilometer in two manners - do 100m sprinting, 100m walking, 100m sprinting, 100m walking, 100m spinting, 100m walking, 100m sprinting,  100m walking, 100m sprinting,  100m walking. 

then 

go and do 500m walking then sprint the last 500m.  let me know which you think has the greater amount of physical exhaustion.

[wbbfan]

4 minutes ago, Tracker said:

I have heard the old ones speak of such things in hushed tones late at night around the fire.

cthulhu for defensive co. 

[TBURGESS]

21 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

it was a comedic analogy... In no way am I saying that a old outta shape dude is on par with a professional athlete- I find it distressing that you fail to pick up on that. 

So- you are telling me that it doesn't matter how that ToP is spread out? You equate the physical fatigue of 2 min on, 2 mins off, 2 minutes on, 2 minutes off, 2 minutes on, 2 minutes off, 2 minutes on, 2 minutes off, 2 minutes on, 2 minutes off, 2 minutes on, 2 minutes off, 2 minutes on, 2 minutes off, 2 minutes on. 

to 

14 minutes off, 16 minutes on.

???

Tell you what, go and run a Kilometer in two manners - do 100m sprinting, 100m walking, 100m sprinting, 100m walking, 100m spinting, 100m walking, 100m sprinting,  100m walking, 100m sprinting,  100m walking. 

then 

go and do 500m walking then sprint the last 500m.  let me know which you think has the greater amount of physical exhaustion.

Clueless comparison especially when you make it a second time. I guess your saying that BC's defense was so fatigued after losing TOP in the first half that they just couldn't play at all in the second half. No? So it's the fatigue factor only matters when it's the Bombers defense or only in the second half? 😎

If BC had say 5 or 10 additional minutes of TOP, then you could rightly use the fatigue argument, but they didn't.

In short, I'm saying that a pro football player can take the stress of having to play 30-31 minutes of football no matter if 18-20 minutes of it are in the first half or in the second half.

[Mark H.]

Riddle me this - when was the last time the D bailed out the O? 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

4 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

Clueless comparison especially when you make it a second time. I guess your saying that BC's defense was so fatigued after losing TOP in the first half that they just couldn't play at all in the second half. No? So it's the fatigue factor only matters when it's the Bombers defense or only in the second half? 😎

If BC had say 5 or 10 additional minutes of TOP, then you could rightly use the fatigue argument, but they didn't.

In short, I'm saying that a pro football player can take the stress of having to play 30-31 minutes of football no matter if 18-20 minutes of it are in the first half or in the second half.

 

That's it you win- you're not right, but you win. 

I can't tell if you are trolling or really this obtuse... but you have the smug part down.

Edited July 18, 2018 by wanna-b-fanboy

[wbbfan]

8 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

Riddle me this - when was the last time the D bailed out the O? 

the last two years when it recorded more take aways then ever before? Our points of turn over was a huge factor in our success the last couple years. especially when we were living off the leg of medlock. Defense forces a turn over, offense sputters medlock kicks the fg. that happened a LOT and won us a lot of our games. The problem is that isnt a reliable repeatable formula. 

[do or die]

If I raise my gin glass with my left hand 8 times slowly and raise it with my right 4 times, more quickly......
 

[wbbfan]

36 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

Clueless comparison especially when you make it a second time. I guess your saying that BC's defense was so fatigued after losing TOP in the first half that they just couldn't play at all in the second half. No? So it's the fatigue factor only matters when it's the Bombers defense or only in the second half? 😎

If BC had say 5 or 10 additional minutes of TOP, then you could rightly use the fatigue argument, but they didn't.

In short, I'm saying that a pro football player can take the stress of having to play 30-31 minutes of football no matter if 18-20 minutes of it are in the first half or in the second half.

Out side of the line, fatigue shouldnt be a huge factor in the first half. These are pro athletes. Its especially prevalent in the 4th. Top is an important factor in defensive fatigue, but also the type of offense playing against it. Heavy run, with a lot of wrs running off dbs will wear you down faster. 

It all depends on the type of game you are playing, how much you rotate the line etc. Corney out, roh largely in effective less rotation. Just cant lump in all pro football players. The difference between a wil/mac, a db, and a DL is gigantic. 

[TBURGESS]

11 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Out side of the line, fatigue shouldnt be a huge factor in the first half. These are pro athletes. Its especially prevalent in the 4th. Top is an important factor in defensive fatigue, but also the type of offense playing against it. Heavy run, with a lot of wrs running off dbs will wear you down faster. 

It all depends on the type of game you are playing, how much you rotate the line etc. Corney out, roh largely in effective less rotation. Just cant lump in all pro football players. The difference between a wil/mac, a db, and a DL is gigantic. 

These are pro athletes. Fatigue shouldn't become a factor in either the first or the second half when the TOP is almost equal. Yes, the DL guys are the ones who would suffer from fatigue, which is why they are rotated in and out of the game. No, I'm not lumping all players together.

I've seen defensive players get worn down and fatigued. Hands on their hips. Sucking air. Going down to get 3 plays off and to rest the defense. None of that is what happened to the Bombers in BC.

BC simply outplayed us in the 2nd half. Lulay found his range on the deep ball and moved the pocket to extend plays. BC players like Burnham stepped their games up. We made some bad play calls on 3rd downs. Our offense went 2 and out because they went away from what was working and because the goal line stand gave BC renewed hope. Nichols uncharacteristically threw INT's. The defense characteristically played soft and gave up too many plays. They made the most of their chances and we didn't.

[wbbfan]

Just now, TBURGESS said:

These are pro athletes. Fatigue shouldn't become a factor in either the first or the second half when the TOP is almost equal. Yes, the DL guys are the ones who would suffer from fatigue, which is why they are rotated in and out of the game. No, I'm not lumping all players together.

I've seen defensive players get worn down and fatigued. Hands on their hips. Sucking air. Going down to get 3 plays off and to rest the defense. None of that is what happened to the Bombers in BC.

BC simply outplayed us in the 2nd half. Lulay found his range on the deep ball and moved the pocket to extend plays. BC players like Burnham stepped their games up. We made some bad play calls on 3rd downs. Our offense went 2 and out because they went away from what was working and because the goal line stand gave BC renewed hope. Nichols uncharacteristically threw INT's. The defense characteristically played soft and gave up too many plays. They made the most of their chances and we didn't.

Top isnt the only modifying factors in fatigue. Weather, style of game, penalties extended the number of plays (which also doesnt affect TOP) lots of other things do. Physically being worn down by being run over a lot.

If you dont think any one was sucking air or had their hands on their hips in the game then you might be fatigued. 

They did. In all aspects. They executed and we shot our self in the foot every chance we got. When you see head scratching mistakes late in games fatigue may have been a factor. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

55 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

Riddle me this - when was the last time the D bailed out the O? 

When they took the ball away right after the O turned it over on Saturday?

[TBURGESS]

1 minute ago, wbbfan said:

Top isnt the only modifying factors in fatigue. Weather, style of game, penalties extended the number of plays (which also doesnt affect TOP) lots of other things do. Physically being worn down by being run over a lot.

If you dont think any one was sucking air or had their hands on their hips in the game then you might be fatigued. 

They did. In all aspects. They executed and we shot our self in the foot every chance we got. When you see head scratching mistakes late in games fatigue may have been a factor. 

Weather is the same for both teams. Penalties were very close too. We run more than any other team so they should have been more fatigued and physically worn down than us.

What 'head scratching mistakes' are you attributing to fatigue in that game?

[USABomberfan]

3 hours ago, blitzmore said:

The point is that this is not the first time this has happened with a Hall bend but don't break and/or prevent defence, so whether they

are tired or not is only a small factor...He does not put the defence in a position to win most times.

Most times?  How bout all the time.

[wbbfan]

7 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

Weather is the same for both teams. Penalties were very close too. We run more than any other team so they should have been more fatigued and physically worn down than us.

What 'head scratching mistakes' are you attributing to fatigue in that game?

it is, but if one team is on the field more, and is being run on and thrown deep on weather factors scale multiplicatively. 

Penalties total, but not penalties on D/o extending the game. 

Im not and didnt. I said its a possibility. especially late in the game. Blown coverage, wrong routes tons of errors that are mental can come from different sources. 

We run the most, but with the least consistency. We will stop for quarters and even halves at a time. 

The point is, a lot of factors come in to play when it comes to fatigue. Not just top. 

[sweep the leg]

2 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

 I guess your saying that BC's defense was so fatigued after losing TOP in the first half that they just couldn't play at all in the second half. 

 

BC had a long break at the half to recover after top was against them. 

Disregarding whether or or not it was actually a factor, it'weird to me that you can't figure out what his point is. 

 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

2 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

I guess your saying that BC's defense was so fatigued after losing TOP in the first half that they just couldn't play at all in the second half. No?

In short, I'm saying that a pro football player can take the stress of having to play 30-31 minutes of football no matter if 18-20 minutes of it are in the first half or in the second half.

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, USABomberfan said:

Most times?  How bout all the time.

we have the horses. we need the jockey. Our roster isnt perfect on D. but it is pretty damned good / border line great. 

[TBURGESS]

1 hour ago, wbbfan said:

it is, but if one team is on the field more, and is being run on and thrown deep on weather factors scale multiplicatively. 

Penalties total, but not penalties on D/o extending the game. 

Im not and didnt. I said its a possibility. especially late in the game. Blown coverage, wrong routes tons of errors that are mental can come from different sources. 

We run the most, but with the least consistency. We will stop for quarters and even halves at a time. 

The point is, a lot of factors come in to play when it comes to fatigue. Not just top. 

Both teams were on the field for the same amount of time. Both teams had penalties that extended drives. Both teams had blown coverages and made mental errors. No one is arguing that fatigue doesn't exist and I'm not arguing that TOP is the only factor to fatigue.

The point is you're saying fatigue affected our defense against BC in Vancouver, yet you can't point out even 1 play where you can actually say that fatigue was a factor. Your theory. Your burden of proof.

1 hour ago, sweep the leg said:

BC had a long break at the half to recover after top was against them. 

Disregarding whether or or not it was actually a factor, it' weird to me that you can't figure out what his point is. 

Right before the half BC's defense two and outted us right before their last drive.They didn't look fatigued even though the TOP, the score, and the game play up to that point were all against them.

It's not that I can't figure out what his point is. It's that I disagree with it. What's so hard to understand about that?

[sweep the leg]

13 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

 

It's not that I can't figure out what his point is. It's that I disagree with it. What's so hard to understand about that?

You gave examples that indicated more a lack of understanding than just disagreement. 

[wbbfan]

2 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

Both teams were on the field for the same amount of time. Both teams had penalties that extended drives. Both teams had blown coverages and made mental errors. No one is arguing that fatigue doesn't exist and I'm not arguing that TOP is the only factor to fatigue.

The point is you're saying fatigue affected our defense against BC in Vancouver, yet you can't point out even 1 play where you can actually say that fatigue was a factor. Your theory. Your burden of proof.

Right before the half BC's defense two and outted us right before their last drive.They didn't look fatigued even though the TOP, the score, and the game play up to that point were all against them.

It's not that I can't figure out what his point is. It's that I disagree with it. What's so hard to understand about that?

The bombers had the penalties in the second half that kept drives alive for bc though, far more then normal and far more then bc. But which team had them at the end of the game? On the play by play recap bc had no penalties in the second half. 

In the second half we had 2 drives longer then 4 plays. Bc had 6 drives longer then 4 plays and one less. 26 offensive plays to 43. Of the last 26 plays, we had 5 plays. 1 punt, 1 pick 1 sack, 2 in completions. 

How about the td play to tie the game? Jsk and sayles both go in with arms and have the wr push through their arms and score the td. 5.15 of the high lights, play it in slow mo then watch ogopogo hunched over and big hill with his hands on his hips. 

A lot of things factored into our loss. I have no doubt fatigue was part of it. When your defense is on the field for that much of the second half you dont win many games.