Odds and Sods - Winnipeg Blue Bombers at BC Lions

[do or die]

Opening drive.....Harris running sweep...gets the edge..
….and cruises down the sideline for 50 yd TD
Nobody touched him, either...
BC moving....until Lulay shot puts pass, into the end zone
Fogg has easy INT and pretty good return...,.
Nichols play action, then 50 yarder to wide open to Woltarsky
Medlock hits 41 yd FG attempt...uh, off the post..
Bomber 2nd down D, still needs work
But O has 130 yds in the quarter...
Nichols hits Adams for 30, down the sideline.....
...but then telegraphs sideline out, for easy INT
Bombers not spreading pass game around, yet...
With Johnson out, Rainey stuffed on 3rd and 1....
Harris runs for 10, Demski for 20....
Demski looks pretty good in North/South mode
BC called on IC.....then Harris pounds it in 14-0.
Medlock hits perfect short kickoff..nice recover by Briggs..
...and hits on 50 yds FG....off the bar....17-0 Bombers
Harris breaks 3 more tackles on screen....beast mode...
Adams kills that drive with dropped slant pass.....
Fogg good PR....called back on "holding"
Rainey has better luck on his good PR...
Lulay is getting some time to throw the ball
Wild called for "roughing" Lulay....
Time running out in half....BC skips FG....
...to throw last play pass to Burnham...who drops it.
17-0 at half, but Bombers left some points on the field, there...
Another good kick return from Rainey...guy scares me....
3rd and I....Farjardo strings it down the line, Bighill with the stop
Adams with nice catch....Harris bulls his way down to the 10...
Streveler runs to the 2.  Bombers go for it on 3rd down....
Streveler takes ball deep in backfield, but cannot crash it in...
Moral booster for Lions....more points left on field for Blue....
Bomber D still cannot cover the wide flat passes.....
Jeffcoat called for "horse collar" tackle...…
Rainey catch and run for 35, another pass to Collins...
Tonight's crew having some difficulty with "officiating"
Lulay dives into the end zone….17-7 Bombers...
What looked like a laugher....is now not looking very funny...…
Harris bulls through a bunch of Lions for good gain.....
Nichols double pumps.....then terrible overthrow INT
Now C. Johnson tagged for roughing on Lulay.....
Penalties off the ball... are really stinging the Blue.....
Opo plants Lulay in the backfield...Long makes its 17-10.
O now features bad passing, instead of Harris
Lulay puts up jump ball....Manny A....jumps over Cooper...
After 9 month layoff....Lulay hits 300 passing yards....
Long makes it 17-10.  DOD makes it, another gin...
Bombers another 2 and out on O....which has been terrible, this half.
Bighill smacks Rainey for loss....D gives up ANOTHER 2nd down pass.
2nd and long again....Lulay gets out of pocket and hits Burnham...
Johnson takes sideline pass...no tackling....TD BC.  Tie game.
Bomber D now imploding....Bomber O has already imploded.. 
1:50 left...time to pull this one out.  Nichols sacked...
Nichols rolls out, throw across his body for ANOTHER BAD INT.
The idea was to pull this game out.....not toss it away..
Naturally, Lulay goes after Cooper, 40 yds to Burnham....
BC runs clock down.  Long hits 15 yd FG...on last play of game.
20-17.  Abject and utter collapse on both sides of the ball.
Worst game by Nichols in a Bomber uniform.....
0 points in 2nd half, against a Mark Washington D
Defense can't make a stop in crunch time….again 
Well, after some more gin...I am sure that this game.....
…...will simply look...just as bad.   
 

 

 

 

 

[Eternal optimist]

Hurts so good.

[deepsixemtoboyd]

Thanks DOD. 

Was avoiding coming on here because I was too depressed following last night.

 On a positive note, Andrew Harris continues to be the best free-agent signing in the history of the Winnipeg Blue Bombers franchise. Demski is demonstrating that his signing was also a sweet pick-up.

 But wow. Wow… Just wow… Talk about defecating the 🛏.  

There was a lot of post game debate on ‘OB about the decisions to go for it on third down & the play calling thereto pertaining… But precious little discussion of what you highlighted: namely, this defence is simply still not good enough. The inability to stop anything on 2nd and long repeatedly is atrocious.

 I dunno know, man, the personnel on the field changes but the results stay the same. What would it take for O’Sh to accept that he needs a different guy designing the schemes? 

Over 4.4 years as head coach, Mike’s record is now 37-40.  Is that right?

I dunno, man...

 

 

[Tracker]

3 hours ago, deepsixemtoboyd said:

Thanks DOD. 

Was avoiding coming on here because I was too depressed following last night.

 On a positive note, Andrew Harris continues to be the best free-agent signing in the history of the Winnipeg Blue Bombers franchise. Demski is demonstrating that his signing was also a sweet pick-up.

 But wow. Wow… Just wow… Talk about defecating the 🛏.  

There was a lot of post game debate on ‘OB about the decisions to go for it on third down & the play calling thereto pertaining… But precious little discussion of what you highlighted: namely, this defence is simply still not good enough. The inability to stop anything on 2nd and long repeatedly is atrocious.

 I dunno know, man, the personnel on the field changes but the results stay the same. What would it take for O’Sh to accept that he needs a different guy designing the schemes? 

Over 4.4 years as head coach, Mike’s record is now 37-40.  Is that right?

I dunno, man...

 

 

O'Shea's record speaks for itself, but the telling stat is how many playoffs the team has won under his leadership- ZERO. Leadership is about making the hard decisions and I thought it was telling when O'Shea drove over to Willy's residence to tell him about the trade that moved Willy out of here much too late. I maintain that you cannot be a buddy to players and lead them at the same time.

[Floyd]

What's up with Bowman...  is Lapo just not targeting him or did we just pay $140k for 2009 Adarius...

Guy hardly looks engaged in blocking and doesn't seem to be involved in any plays... ever...

[TheSource]

56 minutes ago, Floyd said:

What's up with Bowman...  is Lapo just not targeting him or did we just pay $140k for 2009 Adarius...

Guy hardly looks engaged in blocking and doesn't seem to be involved in any plays... ever...

Really hard to tell whether Bowman is done or whether Lapo and NIchols are just not utilizing him right.

Worst case is that it is these three things combined:

1) Walters was dumpster diving for Bowman who was cut by the Esks, who always know what they are doing. Bowman is not the player he used to be, although should be still better than he is playing.

2) The biggest weakness in LaPo offences of the last 10 years is that he does not go vertical enough, preferring to stretch defenses from side to side rather than down the field. In the CFL of today if you play against a good defense this is not getting the job done.

3) Nichols has a quick release but is not a long ball QB. This is why LaPo and Nichols are a good fit, but Nichols is never going to be top tier because he cannot consistently exploit deep threats like BLM, Reilly, Lulay, Harris, and Franklin, who I would all rate as better QBs than Nichols. Nichols is much more like a souped up version of Kevin Glenn. Nothing wrong with that, but probably not going to ever lead a team to a Grey Cup without alot of help from a really good defense.

I called this as a distinct possibility before the season started. At any rate, over the last 3 years it is very clear that the Bombers do not have the same deep threat offence as most of the other offences in the CFL, and teams are now defending the Bombers by not worrying about any passes going downfield more than 15 yards. Basically, to beat the Bombers if you can shut down Harris and Demski in the flats and up the middle, then you do not have to worry about anything else other than the occasional big play that Adams makes, who is good, but cannot do it on his own. With guys like Dressler and Bowman basically only making one catch a game at most, the rest of the Bomber receiving corp is a joke, and it makes for really boring games.

 

[Tracker]

3 hours ago, TheSource said:

Really hard to tell whether Bowman is done or whether Lapo and NIchols are just not utilizing him right.

Worst case is that it is these three things combined:

1) Walters was dumpster diving for Bowman who was cut by the Esks, who always know what they are doing. Bowman is not the player he used to be, although should be still better than he is playing.

2) The biggest weakness in LaPo offences of the last 10 years is that he does not go vertical enough, preferring to stretch defenses from side to side rather than down the field. In the CFL of today if you play against a good defense this is not getting the job done.

3) Nichols has a quick release but is not a long ball QB. This is why LaPo and Nichols are a good fit, but Nichols is never going to be top tier because he cannot consistently exploit deep threats like BLM, Reilly, Lulay, Harris, and Franklin, who I would all rate as better QBs than Nichols. Nichols is much more like a souped up version of Kevin Glenn. Nothing wrong with that, but probably not going to ever lead a team to a Grey Cup without alot of help from a really good defense.

I called this as a distinct possibility before the season started. At any rate, over the last 3 years it is very clear that the Bombers do not have the same deep threat offence as most of the other offences in the CFL, and teams are now defending the Bombers by not worrying about any passes going downfield more than 15 yards. Basically, to beat the Bombers if you can shut down Harris and Demski in the flats and up the middle, then you do not have to worry about anything else other than the occasional big play that Adams makes, who is good, but cannot do it on his own. With guys like Dressler and Bowman basically only making one catch a game at most, the rest of the Bomber receiving corp is a joke, and it makes for really boring games.

 

I am not ready to give up on Nichols yet. A lot of CFL quarterbacks have won the Cup without a rifle arm, although that does help. I do think that the Bomber offence has to be tuned up and the roles of Dressler and Bowman have to be examined.

[Floyd]

Only the source would turn a Bowman usage question into Nichols is done ha

Forget it

[Old Bomber Fan]

I agree with Tracker. I was looking back a Bowman when he was with the Bombers previously and he was let go because he couldn't catch consistently. I was wondering what happened to turn him into the great receiver he was with Edmonton. After some review it showed he was used a lot on crossing patterns and hooks etc. In Edmonton he was a vertical receiver seldom going across the middle. Then he comes back to Winnipeg and he is no longer a vertical player  but a crossing receiver, similar to Dressler. He won't catch a lot of balls there simply because he does not want to be hit dead on so he is not concentrating as much on catching and is now worried more about who is coming and when he will be hit. I think a big difference. 

I also agree with his comment regarding LaPo offenses. He has always been this way and what was it 2 years ago he said he went south to learn from other coordinators and brought back a lot of that information to implement in his system. Not sure where it went because many D coordinators can game plan against him without worry of the deep ball....sort of makes their job a little easier.

Yes Nichols had a bad game but the coaches had a worse one in my opinion. On the first goal line gamble I agreed at least if we didn't make it they would be deep in their zone. The other I thought were bad decisions. As for the 3rd and 4th quarters, well we did what we do time in and time out.....we take our foot off the pedal and coast, we go away from what was working to 2 and outs or INTs, our defense sits back and gives too big a cushion. 

It is hard to believe that it is the talent because the talent on defense especially in the back end has changed yet the results are the same. The soft pattern in the second half of the game is consistent with what has been going on with this team since MOS arrival. So like many here I agree and have stated before the coaching has to improve....use your players' strengths and minimize their weaknesses. Put your players in a position to succeed not fail. Coaching 101.

The refereeing this game was very questionable in my mind. I guess I don't understand horse collar tackle anymore. I always thought is was when a player tackled another by the neck grabbing and using the shoulder pads to bring him down. Jeffcoat didn't grab the shoulder pads, he grabbed the back of the jersey up by the collar. I believe that happened a second time as well. As for the roughing the passer penalties, well I'm not sure how a player who is trying to get to the QB can hold up when the QB releases the ball a spit second before he arrives.

Oh well let see what happens next game.

[TBURGESS]

The horse collar was a horse collar. You don't need to grab the shoulder pads anymore to get called. Simply grabbing the jersey around the numbers is enough these days. It's been called that way for a couple of years now.

The RTP's were all easy calls and the right call except the Wild one which was pretty iffy if you ask me. Players can hold up if they are in control. If they leave their feet, then they get a penalty in the 'player safety first' CFL. It's being called that way league wide these days.

We didn't lose because of the reffing. We lost on some bad coaching decisions, a horrible game by Nichols, turnovers and a defense that couldn't make a stop at the end of the game when we needed them to. 

[Booch]

Lost due to the stupid play calls on the 3rd down gambles..despite playing a crap game....no worries here if you ask me

[do or die]

In the interest of fairness......I simply blame everybody.

Lets look a bit closer at crunch time, down the stretch:

First downs on O............0
Defensive stops on D......0

Pretty good formula for losing the close ones....as we have done twice this season, already.

[JuranBoldenRules]

There has to be some concern about some key players and their performance thus far, 5 games in.

Adams has dropped a ton and put our defense back on the field as a result, cost us many points.

Bowman is a non-factor.

Loffler is averaging less than 2 tackles per game.  That’s absurd for a safety and especially one that plays his style, he’s not a cover safety.  More than that he hasn’t made an impact play, a positive one, yet this season.  He has missed a slew of tackles that kept our D on the field.

Nichols has been unproductive and at times brutal in both 2nd halves he’s played.  Worried about hits?  Can’t get 100% on his throws due to the knee?  Whatever it is they better figure it out. 

[bb1]

I think Nichols is still a little rusty which is understandable but when he was struggling so mightily y not put Streveler in? Even for a couple of plays? Not just to run but to actually throw down the field? Nope. I remember back when Tommy Clements was our Qb, Cal would throw out Hufnagel just to give Clements a different view for a few plays. MOS takes loyalty to a whole new level and i am still not sold on him as coach who can give us a Grey Cup. You can't always be buddy buddy with people you are trying to lead.   

[voodoochylde]

In Edmonton, Bowman benefited from volume.

He's never been a clutch receiver but put up gaudy numbers because - for a time - he was their primary receiver.  Flash forward, Edmonton fills out their receiving corp with threats who are more steady / depedable (Zylstra, Walker, Williams etc.), Bowman takes a back seat and ultimately becomes expendable.  We are getting that guy .. the same guy who was here with us his first go around .. Mr. Inconsistent.

[Bigblue204]

53 minutes ago, Booch said:

Lost due to the stupid play calls on the 3rd down gambles..despite playing a crap game....no worries here if you ask me

Yeah my thoughts too. As bad of a loss as that was. I don't think the Lions really out played the bombers. The bombers just made too many mistakes. On O Nichols was bad...however not as bad as some are making it out (demski has to catch that) his receivers left some plays out there. On D I didn't mind the play calls, kept the ball in front of them...just need to tackle!!!! That's not on Hall. ******* wrap up Loffler! Not that he was the only one whiffing.

I'm not trying to discredit the Lions either, they played well enough to win. But I think that's about as good as it gets for the lions this year. The bombers...not so much.

[do or die]

We are not grooming Bowman for the future.   He is a vet, and making big coin.   Have to have production NOW.  If we don't get it - point him to bench.  
As far as Loffler, totally agree with JBR.  I actually floated the idea, couple games ago, about putting Moe back at S.    Because right now you need GPS to find Loffler, out there.  

We are 5 games in, and can't afford much more of this stuff....

[Bigblue204]

11 hours ago, Old Bomber Fan said:

I agree with Tracker. I was looking back a Bowman when he was with the Bombers previously and he was let go because he couldn't catch consistently. I was wondering what happened to turn him into the great receiver he was with Edmonton. After some review it showed he was used a lot on crossing patterns and hooks etc. In Edmonton he was a vertical receiver seldom going across the middle. Then he comes back to Winnipeg and he is no longer a vertical player  but a crossing receiver, similar to Dressler. He won't catch a lot of balls there simply because he does not want to be hit dead on so he is not concentrating as much on catching and is now worried more about who is coming and when he will be hit. I think a big difference. 

This is just incorrect. Bowman was a YAC machine when in Edmonton. He legitimately ate D's up running crossing patterns. It's also pretty widely known that his issues with dropping the ball was mostly due to an eye sight issue, which was corrected in Edmonton. Obviously it still comes up, but it wasn't just some mysterious thing that went away cause Edmonton only ran him deep. 

[Super Duper Negatron]

Lankford in for Bowman please. And yes, I'm serious.

[Super Duper Negatron]

Also, day 3. Still furious. This one is going to take me a while to get over...

[do or die]

Well, after a cooling off period (to prevent O+S from being gin fueled rant), I can now look at it today.......and just get real angry all over again. 

[voodoochylde]

19 minutes ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

Also, day 3. Still furious. This one is going to take me a while to get over...

I hear this.

I usually don't get too worked up over losses but I'm still mad.  BC is not a good team and we went from doing what we should be doing (rolling up and down the field, dominating a lesser opponent) to completely shitting the bed. Say what you want about the defense not getting off the field but offensively we did nothing for two and a half quarters. 0 points. Some of it was play calling .. some of it was execution .. some of it was just terrible play at the most crucial position. 

We are too talented a team to lose like that and that's what pisses me off.

[Jaxon]

I'm still upset by this loss as well.

My opinion is that it is more on the players than the coaches.    It's easy in hindsight to look back at the 3rd down gambles and criticize the call, but in all honesty, I was thinking "go for it" both times.  By doing so, the coaches showed confidence in their players, but the players failed to deliver.  

While I wasn't happy with the defence not getting the stop when we needed it, I would suggest that this one falls on the offence.   It's not very often you can win in this league with 17 points, and to get shut out in the 2nd half was the difference.   (Especially with all of the turnovers)

I still have great confidence in this team and the management, but the players need to learn how to finish their opponents off when they have the chance. 

[voodoochylde]

23 minutes ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

Lankford in for Bowman please. And yes, I'm serious.

To be honest, I'd rather see Peterman or another of our NI receivers in that spot. 

 

3 minutes ago, Jaxon said:

I'm still upset by this loss as well.

My opinion is that it is more on the players than the coaches.    It's easy in hindsight to look back at the 3rd down gambles and criticize the call, but in all honesty, I was thinking "go for it" both times.  By doing so, the coaches showed confidence in their players, but the players failed to deliver.  

While I wasn't happy with the defence not getting the stop when we needed it, I would suggest that this one falls on the offence.   It's not very often you can win in this league with 17 points, and to get shut out in the 2nd half was the difference.   (Especially with all of the turnovers)

I still have great confidence in this team and the management, but the players need to learn how to finish their opponents off when they have the chance. 

I was as well .. and I *LIKE* the instinct here .. to go for it .. that's playing to win and I can appreciate that decision.  It was poor execution. When you're down on the one .. with the defense one yard off the ball .. don't get fancy .. get a hat on a hat and move straight ahead.

[Floyd]

Fully agree with Moe a Safety but is Fenner hurt now?

Seriously look at 3 NI REC - our NI are performing, give them a shot...

Really wonder if Bowman at Field WR would make sense and move Wolitarsky to SB