Portage & Main

[The Unknown Poster]

27 minutes ago, JCon said:

I hope that they're able to use P&M reconstruction and refurbishments to encourage investment at the street level and improve the infrastructure below the surface. 

They need to improve the concourse, making it more accessible for everyone and improve signage. 

You can still get people at P&M, street level, without the crosswalk. 

I miss working downtown at P&M.

All the area stakeholders are either currently or have said they;d invest at street level.  But you have to expect their desire and investment will diminish if the city wont allow people to utilize it.

7 minutes ago, Goldkobra said:

It wouldn't be 54 seconds though. 54 seconds when you reach that light, maybe. But when traffic is bumper to bumper all the way vack to vaughn street, it would be 54 seconds 12 times over. 

I don't get why people want it opened up. What does it do for you or for anyone? If Winnipeg square doesn't do it for you, is crossing on the next block really so hard?

I would be on board for a pedestrian overpass.

An over-pass has some of the same issues as the under ground, namely accessibility.  This isnt about whether pedestrian should be allowed to cross the grand canyon.  Its one intersection.  There are many large intersections in Winnipeg and other cities with similar traffic volumes.  Its sort of one of those obvious ideas that only become controversial due to opposition.  It WAS a "no big deal" thing and became a big deal due to Jenny using it to juice her election chances.

Because people CAN cross the street before and after P&M, Im not sure why people think letting them cross AT P&M would cause chaos.  

[JCon]

4 minutes ago, Goldkobra said:

It wouldn't be 54 seconds though. 54 seconds when you reach that light, maybe. But when traffic is bumper to bumper all the way vack to vaughn street, it would be 54 seconds 12 times over. 

I don't get why people want it opened up. What does it do for you or for anyone? If Winnipeg square doesn't do it for you, is crossing on the next block really so hard?

I would be on board for a pedestrian overpass.

No, it was 54 seconds to the commute through. And, that was measured BEFORE the city implemented the new traffic system, which has greatly improved traffic flow through all major areas.

 

If you don't have accessibility issues, I suppose you can always go around. I always did but I don't have accessibility issues. 

And, as commented many times here, going down below, for people that feel vulnerable, is quite daunting. It can be physically intimidating. 

 

People wanted it open, not only for the accessibility, but to improve the vitality to the corner. It's dead, all four seasons of year because no one can move out there.

 

A pedestrian overpass is completely unreasonable. The costs would be astronomical, especially when there is already a concourse below. I would rather we put money into improving the concourse, including accessibility, signage and lighting. 

[Brandon]

The reason downtown is dead is safety issues and everything else a distant second for reasons.   Come five pm it's a ghost town and nobody wants to walk any of those streets unless they have to. 

People are absolutely turned off from walking above ground at night because it's sketchy and not safe outside.

Most people feel more safe walking the Skywalks and the underground then on the streets. 

 

Edited October 25, 2018 by Brandon

[Logan007]

1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

There was overwhelming opposition to an indoor water park with significant private funding slated for the Forks to the extent the city disallowed it.  

Yeah, they voted no because the Forks is a crappy place to put a waterpark.

People wanted it at Polo Park.  Hell they could still put one there where the old stadium was.

[The Unknown Poster]

43 minutes ago, Brandon said:

The reason downtown is dead is safety issues and everything else a distant second for reasons.   Come five pm it's a ghost town and nobody wants to walk any of those streets unless they have to. 

People are absolutely turned off from walking above ground at night because it's sketchy and not safe outside.

Most people feel more safe walking the Skywalks and the underground then on the streets. 

 

Oh sorry, I thought you were done discussing this? lol

Downtown is dead after 5PM (which isnt always true actually but hey, facts) because lack of people living and working there at that time.  Get more people living there and you will have more activity into the evening.  I've been downtown at night many times where there were plenty of people.

Crime is an issue in Winnipeg that politicians dont want to deal with.  Part of dealing with crime is moving in residents.  The more condos and apartments that are built, the more change there will be.  

[Brandon]

13 minutes ago, Logan007 said:

Yeah, they voted no because the Forks is a crappy place to put a waterpark.

People wanted it at Polo Park.  Hell they could still put one there where the old stadium was.

It would be a prime location as that space is sitting empty and it was hard enough for the empty Target to find tenants.

I don't believe at this time Bowman wants the city to get involved with one.   I wouldn't mind if the city would entice someone (Canada Inns?) with some kind of tax break to build an indoor waterpark at that location.   It would definitely be a sure fire hit. 

 

 

 

[JCon]

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

The reason downtown is dead is safety issues and everything else a distant second for reasons.   Come five pm it's a ghost town and nobody wants to walk any of those streets unless they have to. 

People are absolutely turned off from walking above ground at night because it's sketchy and not safe outside.

Most people feel more safe walking the Skywalks and the underground then on the streets. 

 

Downtown is not dead, only that corner. 

Only people who don't spend time downtown think it's dead. 

It's alive and vibrant. 

[Brandon]

2 minutes ago, JCon said:

Downtown is not dead, only that corner. 

Only people who don't spend time downtown think it's dead. 

It's alive and vibrant. 

Am I being trolled?  I can't honestly tell?    

[JCon]

1 minute ago, Brandon said:

Am I being trolled?  I can't honestly tell?    

I guess you truly don't spend much time downtown. 

[Logan007]

13 minutes ago, JCon said:

I guess you truly don't spend much time downtown. 

I'm downtown every day of the week.  I've never had a reason to come downtown when I'm not at work because...what for (other then maybe the Forks)?  Whenever I drive through downtown on the weekend to go to Polo or where ever, there's barely anyone on the street.  What exactly qualifies as "vibrant" to you?

[Brandon]

17 minutes ago, JCon said:

I guess you truly don't spend much time downtown. 

Monday - Friday I'm downtown ,  it's absolutely dead once the workers have gone home.   Knowing someone with a business downtown... they only make money at night when the MTS Center has an event or game.     Otherwise it's very quiet.  

I'm assuming that I was being trolled and feel quite gullible for falling for it =\ 

[The Unknown Poster]

19 minutes ago, JCon said:

I guess you truly don't spend much time downtown. 

He drives through it as fast as he can.  I agree with you, I dont go downtown a lot but I often see a lot of people.  There just isnt much in the P&M corner after the work day ends.  And why would you go there anyway when you can't cross?  That could change when 360 Main opens, the Forks residential component opens and more development of Portage east (if it happens now).

[The Unknown Poster]

"Im downtown Monday to Friday until 4PM and then I get in my car and drive away from downtown as quickly as I possibly can.  But trust me, there is no one there after I leave."

[Brandon]

1 minute ago, The Unknown Poster said:

"Im downtown Monday to Friday until 4PM and then I get in my car and drive away from downtown as quickly as I possibly can.  But trust me, there is no one there after I leave."

I expect more from you,  come on you are making it to easy.   

[JCon]

56 minutes ago, Logan007 said:

I'm downtown every day of the week.  I've never had a reason to come downtown when I'm not at work because...what for (other then maybe the Forks)?  Whenever I drive through downtown on the weekend to go to Polo or where ever, there's barely anyone on the street.  What exactly qualifies as "vibrant" to you?

Before this summer, I was downtown every day of the week and weekend. Still spend every Saturday down there. 

I know that when the Jazz festival is on, there are lots people around the Exchange. During the Fringe Festival, there are lots of people walking around downtown. I know that when I go to RMTC with my seasons tickets, there are lots of people in the Exchange. I know that Jets games are busy. I know that concerts are busy. I know that Moose games are less busy. 

I know when I go to the Concert Hall, there are lots of people downtown.

I know there are lots of people downtown during ManyFest. During Nuit Blanche and Culture Days. 

I know the Forks is busy, especially during their many festivals and concerts. 

I know that the Millennium Library is busy during the week and on weekends. 

I'm sure there are many other examples but those are what I can think of off the top of my head. 

 

And, all this happens, despite the downtown being dead. 😉 Imagine what it will be like when even more people live down there. 

[The Unknown Poster]

51 minutes ago, Brandon said:

I expect more from you,  come on you are making it to easy.   

too*

Just having some fun with the lowered discourse you brought to the discussion.

Edited October 25, 2018 by The Unknown Poster

[The Unknown Poster]

3 minutes ago, JCon said:

Before this summer, I was downtown every day of the week and weekend. Still spend every Saturday down there. 

I know that when the Jazz festival is on, there are lots people around the Exchange. During the Fringe Festival, there are lots of people walking around downtown. I know that when I go to RMTC with my seasons tickets, there are lots of people in the Exchange. I know that Jets games are busy. I know that concerts are busy. I know that Moose games are less busy. 

I know when I go to the Concert Hall, there are lots of people downtown.

I know there are lots of people downtown during ManyFest. During Nuit Blanche and Culture Days. 

I know the Forks is busy, especially during their many festivals and concerts. 

I know that the Millennium Library is busy during the week and on weekends. 

I'm sure there are many other examples but those are what I can think of off the top of my head. 

 

And, all this happens, despite the downtown being dead. 😉 Imagine what it will be like when even more people live down there. 

Exactly.  The idea people arent there just isnt true.  If someone wants to argue that during a regular weekday evening with nothing going on, its less populated?  Sure, because less people live there.  But your examples show that when people have a reason to be there, they are there.  And we have more residential buildings being built all the time.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

 

4 hours ago, JCon said:

I hope that they're able to use P&M reconstruction and refurbishments to encourage investment at the street level and improve the infrastructure below the surface. 

They need to improve the concourse, making it more accessible for everyone and improve signage. 

You can still get people at P&M, street level, without the crosswalk. 

I miss working downtown at P&M.

Again....put in yields. You can have your crosswalks and improve traffic.

[Logan007]

1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Exactly.  The idea people arent there just isnt true.  If someone wants to argue that during a regular weekday evening with nothing going on, its less populated?  Sure, because less people live there.  But your examples show that when people have a reason to be there, they are there.  And we have more residential buildings being built all the time.

Actually the time I drive downtown is on weekends, during the day.  I barely see anyone on the street.  Where are these so called people you speak of?  Most of Portage and Broadway are barren.  There's hardly any traffic down either street.  And I'm not talking about the one off things that are here or there I'm talking about a regular basis.

[The Unknown Poster]

18 minutes ago, Logan007 said:

Actually the time I drive downtown is on weekends, during the day.  I barely see anyone on the street.  Where are these so called people you speak of?  Most of Portage and Broadway are barren.  There's hardly any traffic down either street.  And I'm not talking about the one off things that are here or there I'm talking about a regular basis.

I think its been discussed in the posts above yours.  We discussed people being downtown for many events and the critical mass that living downtown creates.   People say "sure, there are tons of people downtown during the week day cause they work there".  Yes, explains the idea perfectly as to why you'd build residential which Winnipeg is doing.  Thje idea Winnipeg is unique in that no one wants to work or live or play downtown just doesnt hold water.  Its similar to the argument that Winnipeg is unique in that we cant have pedestrians cross an intersection without carnage.