Province Portion of IGF Debt written off

[JuranBoldenRules]

15 minutes ago, Eternal optimist said:

You're right, Maple Leafs Entertainment (which also owns the Toronto Maple Leafs) has done wonders for the Argonauts franchise. They haven't neglected the Argonauts at all.

Again, this false equivalency doesn't support the point you're trying to make.

Winnipeg isn't Toronto.

The Bombers aren't the Argos.

The Argos have been a mess for at least 30 years of which MLSE has been involved for 3 seasons.

 

I'm not advocating for True North to take on the Bombers, which is pretty much guaranteed to not even be in the realm of possible unless that debt is dealt with, but I wouldn't see it as a problem if it happened.  TNSE has done a very good job of managing many events and venues in this city.  I don't see them running one business into the ground purposefully.  It just doesn't make much sense.

[Eternal optimist]

Just now, JuranBoldenRules said:

I'm not advocating for True North to take on the Bombers, which is pretty much guaranteed to not even be in the realm of possible unless that debt is dealt with, but I wouldn't see it as a problem if it happened.  TNSE has done a very good job of managing many events and venues in this city.  I don't see them running one business into the ground purposefully.  It just doesn't make much sense.

Agree to disagree then.

[The Unknown Poster]

5 hours ago, Eternal optimist said:

 

This is a terrible idea, the Jets would absolutely let the Bombers wither and die as they are in direct competition with the Jets for entertainment revenue.

 

That’s not really true. 

[FrostyWinnipeg]

19 hours ago, Eternal optimist said:

 

This is a terrible idea, the Jets would absolutely let the Bombers wither and die as they are in direct competition with the Jets for entertainment revenue.

 

It's like saying the Moose are in direct competition even though they are owned by TN.

[blue_gold_84]

20 hours ago, Eternal optimist said:

Agree to disagree then.

Aaaaand defeated.

[SpeedFlex27]

On ‎2018‎-‎07‎-‎28 at 3:18 PM, JuranBoldenRules said:

They wouldn't be in competition if True North owned them.  Your point doesn't really make any sense.

Living here in Calgary I see how the Flames who own the Stamps treat them. Other than paying the bills on time there is nothing much else except a lot of Presidents & Vice Presidents. No advertising. No promotion. They severely curtailed tailgating when they first bought the team which had organically become a big thing in the parking lots around McMahon. they complained & then sicced the cops on innocent people minding their own business having a good time & bothering no one.  The cops made them dump their drinks & wrote tickets if they thought it contained alcohol or telling tailgaters to move along so the Flames could get more money inside the stadium selling their overpriced concessions. They have no interest in helping the Stamps get a new building. All they care is a new barn for the Flames. 

[The Unknown Poster]

If I read this correctly, bombers no longer have to make loan Payments which, since they were making their payments, is great news for the organization. Should ensure profits for years to come. 

Would also make Bombers attractive to private purchase though there would seem to be no reason to sell them now they are out from under the debt. 

Edited September 26, 2018 by The Unknown Poster

[Rich]

This is pretty big news.  No more mortgage payments to the stadium?  The Bombers can investing that $4 - $5M per year back into the club and maintaining the stadium.

[The Unknown Poster]

1 minute ago, Rich said:

This is pretty big news.  No more mortgage payments to the stadium?  The Bombers can investing that $4 - $5M per year back into the club and maintaining the stadium.

Yup, it almost seemed under the radar.  If thats the way it is, its a windfall for the Bombers.  And likely the NDP's plan all along...they just put off the political **** storm to the PC's.

It makes the Bombers fully competitive in every aspect of team management that requires money.  I believe they still have their loan for improvements but shouldnt be tough to pay.  

[Super Duper Negatron]

Holy crap. If this is true, the Bombers should be set for a long time.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

[JCon]

Okay, here's what I'm thinking...

The Bombers manage the stadium but have zero means in which to pay for the necessary capital investments and repairs. 

Triple B, which is actually responsible for the stadium, has zero means to pay for capital investments and repairs. 

The new agreement, going forward, will be that the Bombers will be responsible, as managers of the stadium, to make all necessary investments and repairs, in lieu of their mortgage payments. 

They'll need a plan and the cash flow to do so. That plan does not currently exist. 

This is nothing but a win for all three partners on this deal (Triple B - Bombers, CoW, and the UofM). The taxpayers? Well, that's another debate that I think has already happened and political price has been paid. 

Edited September 26, 2018 by JCon

[blue85gold]

Writing the debt receivable off on the books of the Province doesn't necessarily meant that they've forgiven the debt, just that they don't expect to collect it. Triple B may still be expected to make payments when they can.

[JCon]

1 minute ago, blue85gold said:

Writing the debt receivable off on the books of the Province doesn't necessarily meant that they've forgiven the debt, just that they don't expect to collect it. Triple B may still be expected to make payments when they can.

The OAG wouldn't let them write it off if they thought they could collect. 

There's no money for maintenance and repairs, that's why they've been required to write it off. That money will be needed elsewhere. 

[blue85gold]

11 minutes ago, JCon said:

The OAG wouldn't let them write it off if they thought they could collect. 

There's no money for maintenance and repairs, that's why they've been required to write it off. That money will be needed elsewhere. 

Right, they don't think they can collect so they wrote it off. Writing it off is a just an accounting transaction, doesn't necessarily mean that the debt is forgiven. Maybe that gives BBB permission not to make any further payments, but maybe it doesn't. BBB may still need to pay what they can when they can. 

[JCon]

1 minute ago, blue85gold said:

Right, they don't think they can collect so they wrote it off. Writing it off is a just an accounting transaction, doesn't necessarily mean that the debt is forgiven. Maybe that gives BBB permission not to make any further payments, but maybe it doesn't. BBB may still need to pay what they can when they can. 

Right, but the rationale will be that Triple B will need this money to pay for the maintenance, repairs and future upgrades. Recently, the Bombers have been profitable and making their payments, which means that Triple B has been making theirs. But, nothing is being reinvested, which will lead to issues down the road. 

I wouldn't be surprised to see them also forgive the loan to Triple B. 

[bustamente]

Sooner or later I think everyone  thought that the Bombers would never be able to continue paying down the debt and the province would wipe of the complete debt eventually, This helps the bottom line for the Bombers but does nothing for the product on the field.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

1 hour ago, Rich said:

This is pretty big news.  No more mortgage payments to the stadium?  The Bombers can investing that $4 - $5M per year back into the club and fixing the stadium.

For the Bombers...you lucky f***s!

For the taxpayers...son of a b***h!

 

Edited September 26, 2018 by FrostyWinnipeg

[JCon]

The thing that won't told to the common bystander though is that this agreement was always going to fail.

The Bombers were able to make their payments to Triple B. 

Triple B was able to make the loan payment to the Government.

The Bombers and Triple B would NEVER be able to afford the maintenance and repairs on the facility and it was never considered in the agreement. 

 

I've seen lots of people yelling at the Bombers on social media and at this current government. It was all in the design of the original agreement. It was doomed to fail. 

[rebusrankin]

Tories: Blame Selinger

NDP: Blame Pallister

[JCon]

5 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

Tories: Blame Selinger

NDP: Blame Pallister

This is all on the previous government. 

[rebusrankin]

8 minutes ago, JCon said:

This is all on the previous government. 

Oh I know. Trying to be funny.

[blueandgoldguy]

The Bombers were making their payments and had a surplus as well.  This seems entirely unnecessary on the surface.  They has also invested in the stadium so saying there was no capital investments in the stadium is not entirely true.  The organization had removed seating and replaced it with additional loge seating, removed other seating and enlarged standing room area in the north end zone, expanded the Rum Hut.  

Then again, when it comes to major capital investments, perhaps the Bombers will not have the future surplus available for such expenditures.  The video boards for example are coming up on their 6th year of use.  How many more years can we realistically expect before they are obsolete and replacement parts are difficult to come by?  Another 5 or 6 years?  I would think replacing both boards would cost a few million at the very least.  With the Bombers barely meeting their annual debt obligations their surplus would be severely reduced just for this one expenditure.

And who knows what other major investments will be required in the next 5,10,15 years?  Might require tens of millions the Bombers currently do not have.  Forgoing annual debt repayments would allow them to increase their surplus to the point that such future expenditures would be feasible.

Overall, I have mixed feelings about this.  I guess in an ideal world, the Bombers average attendance is 30,000 year in and year out and they draw 3 - 4 concerts per year allowing them to easily meet their obligations and increasing their surplus by several million each year, thus allowing a reasonable cash flow for future stadium expenditures and no need for further government intervention.  Sadly, that has not come to pass. 

[NorthernSkunk]

4 hours ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

For the Bombers...you lucky f***s!

For the taxpayers...son of a b***h!

 

Bombers fans should never be complaining about the lack of tax dollars for things like healthcare or highway development or etc etc......... 

[SpeedFlex27]

We  got a beautiful new stadium & that's all I care about.  Living in Calgary we are light years away from a new football stadium.