Province Portion of IGF Debt written off

[ALuCsRED]

This move is more about a transparent and open provincial ledger than giving the Bombers a break. Running debt under every rock won’t help the government with debt financing.  The blame comes down to a flawed business plan (empty Target building vs new high end mall), a spend thrifty ex-Premier, and debt buildup in most provincial departments/corporations.

[JCon]

10 hours ago, ALuCsRED said:

This move is more about a transparent and open provincial ledger than giving the Bombers a break. Running debt under every rock won’t help the government with debt financing.  The blame comes down to a flawed business plan (empty Target building vs new high end mall), a spend thrifty ex-Premier, and debt buildup in most provincial departments/corporations.

The "Target" debt was written off before. The unrealized tax revenue from that deal will haunt the province/city for years to come. It will haunt future projects financed this was as well. 

Departments do not carry debt. Surpluses and deficits are cleared each fiscal year. The debt is on government itself. 

What was never cash flowed was the ongoing maintenance of the facility. The Bombers/Triple B would be able to maintain their mortgage payments but there would be no funds to maintain the building. That was unsustainable. This solution provides relief but also will transfer the burden to Triple B and ultimately the Bombers. It gives the Bombers a break because it allows all parties to start looking and planning for the future. 

The "debt" being written off is actually a receivable. The Province will continue to service the long term debt it owes for building the facility. 

[wookie]

hey, just about every stadium and hockey rink is pd by taxes, just like the mts place downtown, they keep all the taxes until the place is pd off, and then true north owns the place, just like the stadium, we pd for it

the way the world of sports works

[SpeedFlex27]

With all the government waste we see at all levels having taxes pay for a new stadium is okay with me.  There is a tangible benefit to IGF.  It does benefit the city.  Calgary just paid half a billion dollars for a new library. A building that most Calgarians will never use because of the Internet. Our Mayor thinks it was a great investment but I'd say most Calgarians don't. Nenshi refuses to use tax dollars to build a new stadium & arena which together may coat $600-700 million to build yet is absolutely fine to spend $5 billion on the Winter Olympics. Insanity reigns at Silly Hall here. I believe most Calgarians would support both a new stadium for the Stamps & a new arena for the Flames but our Mayor refuses to even talk about. So, be glad you have the MTS Bell Centre & IGF. Oh & a really nice baseball stadium. The 6,000 seat baseball park in Calgary is sitting empty. Rotting & rusting away after over a decade of sitting empty. 

Edited September 27, 2018 by SpeedFlex27

[TBURGESS]

To those who said this would happen in the first place and got roasted on these boards for daring to say it... Congrats. You were right.

[SpeedFlex27]

5 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

To those who said this would happen in the first place and got roasted on these boards for daring to say it... Congrats. You were right.

Clap. Clap. Clap. 

 

Edited September 27, 2018 by SpeedFlex27

[SpeedFlex27]

Just about every stadium & arena has been funded by tax dollars. As a taxpayer I have no problem with it, Yes, we knew this would probably happen one day so then why the surprise? Did Sellinger actually think the Bombers would pay off the $82 million? Maybe he was just a dumb socialist so who knows? Was it sneaky, sure. But it is what it is. As I said, the Bombers have a great facility so I'm happy. Every CFL stadium has been paid for by government. The alternative is what? No hockey? No football? No thanks. 

[The Unknown Poster]

2 hours ago, wookie said:

hey, just about every stadium and hockey rink is pd by taxes, just like the mts place downtown, they keep all the taxes until the place is pd off, and then true north owns the place, just like the stadium, we pd for it

the way the world of sports works

BellMTS Place was largely private sector driven.  They did get some taxpayer support but as I recall, Premier Doer had a presser to announce their investment had been recuped in new taxes much earlier than intended.  For something like an NHL arena, it makes sense for public investment.

29 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Just about every stadium & arena has been funded by tax dollars. As a taxpayer I have no problem with it, Yes, we knew this would probably happen one day so then why the surprise? Did Sellinger actually think the Bombers would pay off the $82 million? Maybe he was just a dumb socialist so who knows? Was it sneaky, sure. But it is what it is. As I said, the Bombers have a great facility so I'm happy. Every CFL stadium has been paid for by government. The alternative is what? No hockey? No football? No thanks. 

I tend to agree.  I like responsible use of taxes but its not like IGF was *that* expensive.  As the stakeholder responsible for Canad Inns Stadium, the province was always going to write a big cheque.  To either renovate CIS to "really crappy but not outwardly life threatening" standards or build a new one.  IGF was a much better use of funds.  Not only way better than renovating CIS, but you get something that serves the U of M as well.

The issue with IGF that makes it different than the arena is the lack of events and the lack of area development.  And those two things are connected.  With the area, you have 15,000+ people downtown 40+ times a year just for the NHL, not to mention the plethora of other events.  And we see the investment in downtown happening.

With IGF, it's 10 football games and a couple of concerts, so its not a driver of development.  But it was still necessary.  So we could have built a cheaper, smaller less fine building that would still have cost a lot of money.  Instead we have a wonderful building that will last a long long time (construction issues notwithstanding).  

There is no private owner per se so the argument that the Bombers should pay just doesnt work.  The province gets a little piece of the action in terms of taxes and will, eventually get their piece of the pie (along with the city) in terms of taxes from the old site as well.  

I think the community is responsible for the Bombers and building and thus, it has to be paid for.  Its a drop in the bucket over the life of the Stadium.  

[WBBFanWest]

I would like to congratulate the Winnipeg Blue Bombers.  They are one of the very few professional sports teams in North American playing in a stadium paid for by their owners! 

[MC]

Spin, spin, spin.  This is funny.

I have been part of several organizations who have written off large debts.  It never once had any impact on the veracity of which we pursued the debt or the legal responsibility of the debtor to have to pay it.

The Bombers still need to meet their financial commitments.

Nothing to see here.  Move on.  Unless you enjoy righteous indignation.  Then, please proceed and enjoy.

[JCon]

1 minute ago, MC said:

Spin, spin, spin.  This is funny.

I have been part of several organizations who have written off large debts.  It never once had any impact on the veracity of which we pursued the debt or the legal responsibility of the debtor to have to pay it.

The Bombers still need to meet their financial commitments.

Nothing to see here.  Move on.  Unless you enjoy righteous indignation.  Then, please proceed and enjoy.

Again, I will repeat, the purpose of writing off the debt will be to fund repairs and maintenance. There is currently no budget to do so. 

So, unless the Province wants a facility that is inoperable, this was a necessary move. Alternatively, they could take on the responsibility of funding repairs and maintenance themselves, which this government is not interested in doing. 

The burden will now be the Bombers/Triple B. They will be expected to maintain the facility. 

The original plan did not include a component of ongoing maintenance. 

[wookie]

on the mts place, it is all pd for by us tax payors,  they do not pay any taxes to the city or the prov until their mortgage is pd off, check it out,it is all there, 

but hard ti find, the city or the prov collect amusement tax, well that goes to the jets until the morgage is pd, not $1 to the city , but like i say 

all the place are built on the backs of the people living there

so we are paying for both places, just in dif ways

[Booch]

WHO CARES....if taxes pay for it so be it as in the end nobody will notice it on their own personal bottom line...you were gonna pay tax anyway toward..whatever so big deal

This is a big win win for the Bombers and the University...Based on the average revenue from the Stadium and Bombers since it opened they have been in the black like what...anywhere from 7 to 10 million a year (more if hosting a Grey Cup)?

On going now this will allow for a percentage to be put away each year for maintenance and upgrades etc...and a nice portion of profit each year in the Bombers pockets...which in the longterm will venerable the team to continually attract higher end free agents and players....sure it has no effect on the SMS as all teams play under the same figure.....but adding amenities..facility perks...treatment options..player perks..etc...it goes a long way in a SMS based league..especially short career one such as in football at the lesser wage earned in Canada

[Eternal optimist]

Lots of people here confusing writing off bad debt with forgiving it - two entirely different things.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

2 hours ago, Eternal optimist said:

Lots of people here confusing writing off bad debt with forgiving it - two entirely different things.

Call me cornfused.

[WBBFanWest]

22 minutes ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

Call me cornfused.

You sir, are confused.

[Tracker]

13 hours ago, WBBFanWest said:

You sir, are confused.

Wait. Did you just assume Frosty's gender?

[WBBFanWest]

18 minutes ago, Tracker said:

Wait. Did you just assume Frosty's gender?

  I figured I had at least a 33% chance of being right.  I like those odds.

[trueBlue83]

On 2018-09-27 at 1:05 PM, JCon said:

Again, I will repeat, the purpose of writing off the debt will be to fund repairs and maintenance. There is currently no budget to do so. 

So, unless the Province wants a facility that is inoperable, this was a necessary move. Alternatively, they could take on the responsibility of funding repairs and maintenance themselves, which this government is not interested in doing. 

The burden will now be the Bombers/Triple B. They will be expected to maintain the facility. 

The original plan did not include a component of ongoing maintenance. 

one has to wonder if maybe this is writing on the wall that Triple B is not going to win their lawsuit with the architect & contractor, and all of the extra costs they've had to put into repairs the last couple years are going to fall back on them.  I've always sensed this was going to be the outcome based on how I heard things were carried out during the project!

[NorthernSkunk]

Hey Mr blue_gold_84 if you had a family member in need of a serious transplant you might think otherwise yourself.  So maybe keep yer snarky faces to your self. Thank-you.. 

[WBBFanWest]

17 hours ago, NorthernSkunk said:

Hey Mr blue_gold_84 if you had a family member in need of a serious transplant you might think otherwise yourself.  So maybe keep yer snarky faces to your self. Thank-you.. 

You do realize that budgets don't work that way right?  Heath gets the money that is budgeted for health, infrastructure the money budgeted for infrastructure, etc.  They don't say, "well we were going to do these transplants but lets take that money and give it to the Bombers for a stadium instead."  If health needs more money for what it does, it presents it's arguments, just like every other department does.  If people aren't getting the health care they need, it's not necessarily that the government isn't giving Health enough as much as it is that the Health agencies (the RHA's) are designating  that money for other things, like lots and lots and lots of administration. That and the difficulty in providing care to people in a fairly big province that has a huge majority of it's people in one area.  Means that the system will always be skewed to one group of people at the expense of everyone else.  

[TBURGESS]

There is only 1 pot of money. If you spend it on A, you can't spend it on B without going into a deeper deficit.

[WBBFanWest]

Just now, TBURGESS said:

There is only 1 pot of money. If you spend it on A, you can't spend it on B without going into a deeper deficit.

Of course there is only one pot, but that is a gross oversimplification used by people who do not understand the complexities of "doing government" all all the competing forces at play.

[TBURGESS]

1 minute ago, WBBFanWest said:

Of course there is only one pot, but that is a gross oversimplification used by people who do not understand the complexities of "doing government" all all the competing forces at play.

It's not an oversimplification, it's a fact that governments like to ignore.

[WBBFanWest]

Just now, TBURGESS said:

It's not an oversimplification, it's a fact that governments like to ignore.

Sorry, not going to play the TBurgess game.  Have a great day.