Province Portion of IGF Debt written off

[Blueandgold]

This was bound to happen. The pay method was unsustainable. 

[SpeedFlex27]

So, the loan has been forgiven. Bombers don't have to pay so what is Miller rambling on about making "minimum payments"? If it's forgiven, then reinvest all profits back into the team to make it competitive  & not into govt coffers. And get rid of all govt reps on the Board of Directors. 

Edited September 29, 2018 by SpeedFlex27

[jazzsax]

Another thing that MTS centre has going for it... big dollar naming rights, plus a huge piece of the VLT revenue. 

Bombers can fund the rainy day fund / ongoing repairs by not having to pay the mortgage. Like most cities the government can help fund the construction of the stadium and gets a signficant return over time for spinoff spending. Taxes on payroll, construction, consumption (food, liquor), the list goes on. 

It's not just about a building, it's about all of the spinoff related to it. Every game I go to, it's not just a game. It's a dinner before drinks, etc. Keeping people employed since the day I could walk. 

 

 

[trueBlue83]

3 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

So, the loan has been forgiven. Bombers don't have to pay so what is Miller rambling on about making "minimum payments"? If it's forgiven, then reinvest all profits back into the team to make it competitive  & not into govt coffers. And get rid of all govt reps on the Board of Directors. 

Was there not an additional loan taken out (the one the Bombers have actually been making their payments on)??   The debt to the province (Triple B Stadium) may be forgiven, but the additional loan taken out with the bank certainly won't be.  

[SpeedFlex27]

9 minutes ago, trueBlue83 said:

Was there not an additional loan taken out (the one the Bombers have actually been making their payments on)??   The debt to the province (Triple B Stadium) may be forgiven, but the additional loan taken out with the bank certainly won't be.  

To me, it sounds like the total amounts in loans was forgiven. 

[trueBlue83]

Can't find much info, but it looks like that loan was to be paid back to the bank by end of 2016.  I thought the loan was worth more, but the 2013 article I found said it was only 10M with CIBC, and that loan would be paid prior to payments to the province would be.

[NorthernSkunk]

6 hours ago, WBBFanWest said:

You do realize that budgets don't work that way right?  Heath gets the money that is budgeted for health, infrastructure the money budgeted for infrastructure, etc.  They don't say, "well we were going to do these transplants but lets take that money and give it to the Bombers for a stadium instead."  If health needs more money for what it does, it presents it's arguments, just like every other department does.  If people aren't getting the health care they need, it's not necessarily that the government isn't giving Health enough as much as it is that the Health agencies (the RHA's) are designating  that money for other things, like lots and lots and lots of administration. That and the difficulty in providing care to people in a fairly big province that has a huge majority of it's people in one area.  Means that the system will always be skewed to one group of people at the expense of everyone else.  

I totally understand once the money gets filtered down to that part of the system what is going on.  I am talking about before it gets to that point,  like before they even take it from me...  if there was an option when paying taxes that people could choose that says their tax dollars would not be used for building new stadiums or arenas, I wonder how many would choose that option ?.....  

so still fans of the new stadium should never ***** if they have to sit in a waiting room for an extended period due to staffing shortages...... cause when they first divided our tax dollars they could have put more into health and less into building a stadium..... but I will say the day the government can show me in solid factual numbers how the stadium has brought in more tax dollars than they put out to build the stadium, well that would settle it all.  How come they never do that ? 

Blue_gold_84 you old thin skin lmao.....is it bugging you still just how correct I was about the Bombers QB situation last year, I just realized every snarky face you give me reinforces my points from last year.....lol.......say hi to the rest of them for me okay, thanks.  

[JuranBoldenRules]

32 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

To me, it sounds like the total amounts in loans was forgiven. 

It's basically a consolidation of stadium debt.  The Province is covering the debt now so they don't eventually default on the debt with the lenders (banks) but the Bombers still have to pay the Province.  The terms of that agreement are being negotiated.  Presumably the Bombers will pay less against the debt and will put money into a capital fund to maintain the stadium, somewhat absolving the City and Province of that liability.

[SpeedFlex27]

Just now, JuranBoldenRules said:

It's basically a consolidation of stadium debt.  The Province is covering the debt now so they don't eventually default on the debt with the lenders (banks) but the Bombers still have to pay the Province.  The terms of that agreement are being negotiated.  Presumably the Bombers will pay less against the debt and will put money into a capital fund to maintain the stadium, somewhat absolving the City and Province of that liability.

As long as it isn't an albatross for the team. Like it was. 

[WBBFanWest]

2 hours ago, NorthernSkunk said:

I totally understand once the money gets filtered down to that part of the system what is going on.  I am talking about before it gets to that point,  like before they even take it from me...  if there was an option when paying taxes that people could choose that says their tax dollars would not be used for building new stadiums or arenas, I wonder how many would choose that option ?.....  

so still fans of the new stadium should never ***** if they have to sit in a waiting room for an extended period due to staffing shortages...... cause when they first divided our tax dollars they could have put more into health and less into building a stadium..... but I will say the day the government can show me in solid factual numbers how the stadium has brought in more tax dollars than they put out to build the stadium, well that would settle it all.  How come they never do that ? 

Blue_gold_84 you old thin skin lmao.....is it bugging you still just how correct I was about the Bombers QB situation last year, I just realized every snarky face you give me reinforces my points from last year.....lol.......say hi to the rest of them for me okay, thanks.  

The cost of IGF was reported as 210 million dollars.  The annual Health budget for Manitoba in 2016 was 6.497 billion dollars.  So that means that the cost of the stadium was less than  three and a half percent  of the overall health budget for ONE YEAR.  Do you really think that the overall quality of health care in Manitoba would have been impacted in any meaningful way, even for that one year if all that money had been directed, one time to the health portfolio?  Now factor in the benefit of having a stadium of that caliber available to those in Winnipeg and to those who might be considering Winnipeg as their home.  If you  don't want to make people think you are a second rate city, and attempt to attract your share of the best and brightest, you don't skimp on amenities like a quality stadium or a lack of entertainment options like pro sports.  Sure it sounds superficial, but people often are.  

Edited September 30, 2018 by WBBFanWest
cause I did rider math on the first go-around.

[SPuDS]

2 hours ago, WBBFanWest said:

The cost of IGF was reported as 210 million dollars.  The annual Health budget for Manitoba in 2016 was 6.497 billion dollars.  So that means that the cost of the stadium was less than  three and a half percent  of the overall health budget for ONE YEAR.  Do you really think that the overall quality of health care in Manitoba would have been impacted in any meaningful way, even for that one year if all that money had been directed, one time to the health portfolio?  Now factor in the benefit of having a stadium of that caliber available to those in Winnipeg and to those who might be considering Winnipeg as their home.  If you  don't want to make people think you are a second rate city, and attempt to attract your share of the best and brightest, you don't skimp on amenities like a quality stadium or a lack of entertainment options like pro sports.  Sure it sounds superficial, but people often are.  

And boom goes the dynamite..

[blue_gold_84]

5 hours ago, NorthernSkunk said:

Blue_gold_84 you old thin skin lmao.....is it bugging you still just how correct I was about the Bombers QB situation last year, I just realized every snarky face you give me reinforces my points from last year.....lol.......say hi to the rest of them for me okay, thanks.  

Rent free in that mucked up noggin of yours. Too bad it's just empty space.

[SpeedFlex27]

It's Skunk. When he posts expectations are lowered. 

[Mr Dee]

Can we let this thread die a slow debt?

[FrostyWinnipeg]

Sports fans are the pretty forgiving.

Tyson... Vick...

All is good.

[blue_gold_84]

https://winnipegsun.com/opinion/columnists/brodbeck-ndp-leader-wab-kinew-admits-igf-deal-was-a-dud

Quote

Kinew had to admit, in the most conciliatory terms possible, that his party, while in power, put together a preposterously bad deal that will cost taxpayers upwards of $270 million. The NDP’s stadium financing deal was no longer defensible.

...it will be a constant reminder of just how financially inept the former government was.

 

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, blue_gold_84 said:

https://winnipegsun.com/opinion/columnists/brodbeck-ndp-leader-wab-kinew-admits-igf-deal-was-a-dud

 

You go to The Sun for your news?

[blue_gold_84]

2 hours ago, Tracker said:

You go to The Sun for your news?

Dumb (and presumptuous) question.

I posted an article relevant to the discussion. You know, the part where the previous provincial gov't crapped the bed with IGF and now the new leader is owning up to it.

Edited October 1, 2018 by blue_gold_84

[blueandgoldguy]

The details of the stadium deal were shall we say less than ideal.  However, the former government did get the Bombers a new stadium.  Imagine if they had only agreed to limited finding...say $25 - $50 million to do a reasonably modest patch job on the old stadium (as Brodbeck suggested).  That would have bought the team 10 - 15 years at most as parts of the stadium were already having significant integrity issues - something a cheap patch job would not fully alleviate.  Unlikely the new PC government would have given the Bombers much needed funds to construct a new stadium given current austerity measures...and before you know it the Bombers would be having another stadium crisis in the 2020s.

[JCon]

16 hours ago, blueandgoldguy said:

The details of the stadium deal were shall we say less than ideal.  However, the former government did get the Bombers a new stadium.  Imagine if they had only agreed to limited finding...say $25 - $50 million to do a reasonably modest patch job on the old stadium (as Brodbeck suggested).  That would have bought the team 10 - 15 years at most as parts of the stadium were already having significant integrity issues - something a cheap patch job would not fully alleviate.  Unlikely the new PC government would have given the Bombers much needed funds to construct a new stadium given current austerity measures...and before you know it the Bombers would be having another stadium crisis in the 2020s.

I'm not saying it was a bad thing that the former government built this stadium. I am quite pleased, actually. 

But, the way they handled it, the way they sold the whole idea was less than forthcoming. Never mind all the interference in the process. It would have been better if everything could have been on the up-and-up and not turn the Bombers into the bad guys in this. I think most people see that it had nothing to do with them but some will continue to blame the board for things out of their control. 

The land deal for the old stadium was unfortunate but I don't completely blame the prov for that. Just unfortunate circumstances, I think.