Going for 2

[Jerry1377]

It infuriates me when we let a team come in and score and then they go for 2 and get it. However that is a winning attitude!

 

Then when we score a TD, our coach basically says to our team "we better kick a single point because I don't believe we can get 2 points to tie it..."

Absolutely maddening! He told the team we aren't as good.

 

[Guest J5V]

4 minutes ago, Jerry1377 said:

It infuriates me when we let a team come in and score and then they go for 2 and get it. However that is a winning attitude!

 

Then when we score a TD, our coach basically says to our team "we better kick a single point because I don't believe we can get 2 points to tie it..."

Absolutely maddening! He told the team we aren't as good.

 

O'Shea's loyalty to Medlock. Score be damned.

[AKAChip]

Going for one almost never is the right call. Even if we assume Medlock is more or less 100% on converts, we would need to go under 50% on two point converts over 10 tries to end up with less points than the maximum number of points we could get on 10 good one-point converts. Even if you make the argument that in small sample sizes, trying a slightly more risky two point convert is not worth giving up an automatic single point, not going for two when you could make it a two score game rather than three is not only foolish, it's negligent. 

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, AKAChip said:

Going for one almost never is the right call. Even if we assume Medlock is more or less 100% on converts, we would need to go under 50% on two point converts over 10 tries to end up with less points than the maximum number of points we could get on 10 good one-point converts. Even if you make the argument that in small sample sizes, trying a slightly more risky two point convert is not worth giving up an automatic single point, not going for two when you could make it a two score game rather than three is not only foolish, it's negligent. 

I think its symptomatic of one of O'Shea's failings as he sticks with what he has used rather than adapt.

[AKAChip]

Just now, Tracker said:

I think its symptomatic of one of O'Shea's failings as he sticks with what he has used rather than adapt.

I can't say what exactly the reason for that decision is but if we have a coach who can't comprehend simple facts like two possession game > three possession game, then we are in bigger trouble that I imagined. 

[NorthernSkunk]

Going for two would be another oppurtunity to get Streveler in the game.

[JuranBoldenRules]

I just don’t know how you can go for 1 when the opponent puts up a few scores and converts them with 2.  How do you ever expect to catch up if you don’t match that when you score a TD?  There’s only so many possessions (chances to score points) in a game.  At a certain point 7 vs 6 matters not at all when the other team is scoring 8’s.  You gotta go.

[Stickem]

Poor coaching decisions are beginning to look like the hallmark of this coach...Looking at him on the sidelines, I'm left wondering if he's actually totally aware of the games ebb and flow...He looks dazed and confused and doesn't exactly emulate the type of confidence level his players need to see....I think he'll be reassessed at the end of the year and if we haven't progressed to a point where we win at least in post season, I think Mike O'Shea will be shown the door....The players may luv him but  a lot of fans are currently disenchanted and they pay the bills  

[Guest J5V]

1 hour ago, AKAChip said:

I can't say what exactly the reason for that decision is but if we have a coach who can't comprehend simple facts like two possession game > three possession game, then we are in bigger trouble that I imagined. 

He's a helluva nice guy. Runs a decent locker room. Smart? Sure. Smart enough? Not so much.

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, J5V said:

He's a helluva nice guy. Runs a decent locker room. Smart? Sure. Smart enough? Not so much.

I do not question O'Shea's intelligence, but his stubbornness and rigid thinking is a continuing concern.

[Guest J5V]

Just now, Tracker said:

I do not question O'Shea's intelligence, but his stubbornness and rigid thinking is a continuing concern.

That concern is shared by many after last night.

[TheSource]

4 minutes ago, Tracker said:

I do not question O'Shea's intelligence, but his stubbornness and rigid thinking is a continuing concern.

 

I guess this is what you get for turning a middle linebacker into a head coach.

More mentally flexible head coaches often come from the more mentally skilled positions on the field such as QB.

Would have loved to see Tom Clements coach the bombers, but with guys like Walters feeding in crap players, Tom was too smart to take that bait.

[Eternal optimist]

2 hours ago, Jerry1377 said:

It infuriates me when we let a team come in and score and then they go for 2 and get it. However that is a winning attitude!

 

Then when we score a TD, our coach basically says to our team "we better kick a single point because I don't believe we can get 2 points to tie it..."

Absolutely maddening! He told the team we aren't as good.

 

Mathematically speaking, as long as you are above 50% conversion on 2 pointers, you should go for every single one of them, however conventional game theory does not translate well into football game theory. You could easily argue that O'Shea thought his D would stop at least 50% of the conversion attempts, thus causing a break-even scenario.

At the end of the day here though - the much bigger concern isn't that we weren't going for 2, it's that Ottawa was able to go 4/4 on 2 point conversions.

Edited August 18, 2018 by Eternal optimist
typo

[Eternal optimist]

I don't think this is worth its' own thread... but can we please also talk about his absolutely wasted challenge?

[SpeedFlex27]

8 minutes ago, TheSource said:

 

I guess this is what you get for turning a middle linebacker into a head coach.

More mentally flexible head coaches often come from the more mentally skilled positions on the field such as QB.

Would have loved to see Tom Clements coach the bombers, but with guys like Walters feeding in crap players, Tom was too smart to take that bait.

Tom's 65 & he's never coming here. He's an NFL lifer as a coach & why not? The money is phenomenal. I'd be a lifer too if I could coach Ben Roethlesberger & Aaron Rodgers & for an added treat win Super Bowls.  I do wish we'd honour Tom, though. He left after the 1987 season because of a contract disagreement with GM Cal Murphy. The first Bomber qb to win a GC after Ken Ploen & 22 years deserves our thanks. 

[Stickem]

Okay then, thankyou Tommy....we didn't know what we had till we lost ya...helluva great little qb. and very cerebral ..Thought the way he left was disgraceful on our part

[Starman115]

2 minutes ago, Eternal optimist said:

I don't think this is worth its' own thread... but can we please also talk about his absolutely wasted challenge?

It could be a fairly long thread if we put all of MOS's gaffes from the Ottawa game into one thread. As for the wasted challenge, I thought the evidence for PI was sketchy at best. But even if the evidence was a slam dunk PI, do you still want to use your one and only challenge to reverse a call that early in the game. Likely only get 3 points out of it anyway. Not smart coaching.

[blueandgoldguy]

23 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Tom's 65 & he's never coming here. He's an NFL lifer as a coach & why not? The money is phenomenal. I'd be a lifer too if I could coach Ben Roethlesberger & Aaron Rodgers & for an added treat win Super Bowls.  I do wish we'd honour Tom, though. He left after the 1987 season because of a contract disagreement with GM Cal Murphy. The first Bomber qb to win a GC after Ken Ploen & 22 years deserves our thanks. 

It would have been interesting to find out what he wanted per year vs. what Cal offered.  Why didn't he sign with another team eventually?

Edited August 18, 2018 by blueandgoldguy

[SpeedFlex27]

20 minutes ago, Stickem said:

Okay then, thankyou Tommy....we didn't know what we had till we lost ya...helluva great little qb. and very cerebral ..Thought the way he left was disgraceful on our part

Willard Reaves left the same way. Murphy wanted to cut the salaries of Reaves & Clements. Hufnagel left as well. Nothing was ever said. These guys other than Reaves signing with the Redskins for 88 was all left in silence during the off season. The Bombers have never had any special day for Clements. But as good as that 87 team was they didn't win a GC. The 88 team did with Sean Salisbury at qb & Tim Jessie at tailback. Go figure. However, I digress. Back to the topic at hand. 

Edited August 18, 2018 by SpeedFlex27

[Eternal optimist]

21 minutes ago, Starman115 said:

It could be a fairly long thread if we put all of MOS's gaffes from the Ottawa game into one thread. As for the wasted challenge, I thought the evidence for PI was sketchy at best. But even if the evidence was a slam dunk PI, do you still want to use your one and only challenge to reverse a call that early in the game. Likely only get 3 points out of it anyway. Not smart coaching.

Yeah, that's kind of my point - not only did he challenge a meaningless play, even if it was overturned, it would've given us - what? 7 yards, maybe? It would've kept that drive alive, but it was grasping at straws early in the game, and handcuffed them for the rest of the game. Would've been nice to challenge that phantom PI call for Ottawa.

Edited August 18, 2018 by Eternal optimist

[SpeedFlex27]

4 minutes ago, blueandgoldguy said:

It would have been interesting to find out what he wanted per year vs. what Cal offered.  Why didn't he sign with another team eventually?

All I know is that Clements wife & he were lawyers. She was his agent & she represented him in talks with the Bombers. I know they went to Chicago but I guess he decided he didn't want to play anymore. I have no idea how & why he gave up his law practice to coach. Would be interesting to find out.

[kelownabomberfan]

Clements got his law degree in 1986.  He was also hurt a lot. He probably realized that he could make more in law than in football, and not have broken ribs.

[Mr Dee]

3 hours ago, TheSource said:

I guess this is what you get for turning a middle linebacker into a head coach.

I don’t want to say that’s a dumb statement...but...that’s a dumb statement.

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Clements got his law degree in 1986.  He was also hurt a lot. He probably realized that he could make more in law than in football, and not have broken ribs.

Too bad we could only win one GC with him as our qb. 

[FrostyWinnipeg]

5 hours ago, Jerry1377 said:

Absolutely maddening! He told the team we aren't as good.

But we're not.