Matt Nichols is the worst starting QB in the CFL

[Mr Dee]

41 minutes ago, Mark F said:

Bob Irving tweet up on the right

"just broke down the Bomber game and you Nichols knockers aren’t going to like this but aside from a couple of throws, Nichols was solid. Bombers need more from their receivers. They lost in Regina because of turnovers and lousy kick cov’g, not quarterbacking.

He’s right, of course, on the reasons we lost, but it’s embarrassing for our team and fans that an OC as widely regarded as LaPolice, cannot manage to overcome second half lapses with imaginative play calling. Same old, same old.

But Bob has to look at Nichols with a more critical eye. He simply has to be better no matter the play calling. He’s put the ball in tight spaces on some nice throws, but the consistency is non-existent. He has to make things happen..on his own, if he expects to be regarded as the leader O’Shea thinks he is. More Streveler is needed if only to keep the opposition guessing.

[Guest J5V]

Unless I'm imagining it, our receivers seem to improve a lot when Streveler throws them the ball. If that's true, how do you explain that?

What really bothers me right now about our offense is that we're wasting these incredible performances by Andrew Harris. The guy is pure stud.

[B-F-F-C]

14 minutes ago, Mr Dee said:

He’s right, of course, on the reasons we lost, but it’s embarrassing for our team and fans that an OC as widely regarded as LaPolice, cannot manage to overcome second half lapses with imaginative play calling. Same old, same old.

But Bob has to look at Nichols with a more critical eye. He simply has to be better no matter the play calling. He’s put the ball in tight spaces on some nice throws, but the consistency is non-existent. He has to make things happen..on his own, if he expects to be regarded as the leader O’Shea thinks he is. More Streveler is needed if only to keep the opposition guessing.

True...but didn't Nichols throw two of those turnovers?

[SpeedFlex27]

57 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Cut and paste any number of QB names in there, Buck Pierce, Alex Brink, Drew Willy, Kevin Glenn.  Bob loves the QB's.  It's rarely their fault.  Great PBP man, and has a great historical perspective, not an analyst.

The only thing I'll say about Bob is that after hanging around the team's practices, talking to head coaches from Bud Riley to Mike O'Shea, interviewing players, assistant coaches, sitting in on player meetings watching film & now video broken down by the coaches for 45 years he has to have learned more than a few things about the game.

Edited September 3, 2018 by SpeedFlex27

[wbbfan]

21 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

We talked about this on Babble. Our receivers can't challenge vertically. The worst set of Int receivers in the CFL. Wolitarsky is the possession guy. 

Even with out dressler it just isnt the case. Adams, and thompkins are insanely talented. Washington is still too soon to quantify, but if he is any thing its a deep threat.

Thompkins was a legit nfl starter, and has shown great in his use here thus far. We dont have much design around him yet, but he catches every thing he should.

Darvin adams is playing at an elite level. Put him in any well run offense and he would be top couple in the league in every catagory. 

Dressler has similar health issues as allways, but has shown he is still the guy who can stretch the D, as well as catch a 4 yard pass on second and 10 and make a first down.

The problem hasnt been wrs getting open deep. If any thing we've seen tons of chances to hook up deep, but missed with passes and protection. If we cut thompkins, dressler, or adams they would immediately be picked up and start for another team. Thompkins and adams would start on any team in the league. Dressler would start on most of them, save one or two. How many teams would nichols start on right now? 

The Ol hasnt been great the last few weeks. (pass pro) weve seen a ton of pressure on nichols compared to the past when we saw him touched once a game or less and seldom sacked. Nichols has not dealt with or picked up the pressure well at all either. The offense has not adapted well to how teams have been able to pressure us.  Ol missing hardrick and bond, then the play of nichols, then the lack of adjustments by plop.  Wr talent is soo far down the list for why our offense is struggling its not even funny. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

OL was great in Sask.  One sack was on them.  They were playing arguably the two best pass rushing DE's in the league and the best D in general at pressuring the QB.  Nichols struggles to get the ball out and really needs a simplified offense.  They ran a simple quick passing game with lots of misdirection and some rollouts in the first half and put together a bunch of drives.  They go to a straight dropback passing game in the second half and Nichols can barely complete a pass.

[wbbfan]

14 hours ago, NorthernSkunk said:

Because Nichols gives them krappy throws to catch......... 

 

Its not soo many lousy balls to catch, its his placement. The vast majority of the time you see a pass deeper then 10 yards (and of late any pass) you see our WRs having to stretch out to their furthest extent just to touch the ball. 

If a wr jumps up or lays out as far as they can, and extends their arms fully and the ball grazes their fingers It is NOT a drop. A pass is supposed to hit a wr in the hands with their arms bent right in front of them. It should leave them able to catch and run without breaking stride. That is an accurate pass. When you have to reach behind you, layout or jump up in a prone position it was not a good/accurate pass. 

Especially in an offense like ours, which expects wrs to catch a pass before first down yardage is gained then pick it up with their feet, you HAVE to hit wrs on time in stride. When you dont you freeze their feet and momentum and force them to shuck and jive to try and pick up yardage rather than run it out. 

 

Edited September 3, 2018 by wbbfan

[JuranBoldenRules]

1 minute ago, wbbfan said:

Its not soo many lousy balls to catch, its his placement. The vast majority of the time you see a pass deeper then 10 yards (and of late any pass) you see our WRs having to stretch out to their furthest extent just to touch the ball. 

If a wr jumps up or lays out as far as they can, and extends their arms full and the ball grazes their fingers It is NOT a drop. A pass is supposed to hit a wr in the hands with their arms bent right in front of them. It should leave them able to catch and run without breaking stride. That is an accurate pass. When you have to reach behind you, layout or jump up in a prone position it was not a good/accurate pass. 

Especially in an offense like ours, which expects wrs to catch a pass before first down yardage is gained then pick it up with their feet, you HAVE to hit wrs on time in stride. When you dont you freeze their feet and momentum and force them to shuck and jive to try and pick up yardage rather than run it out. 

 

Nichols is doing a lot of hesitating in the pocket this year and that's helping pass rushers and hurting his receivers and Harris.  They are always waiting for the ball, rarely see someone hit in stride, make catch, get creamed play over.  Not much YAC.  Lapo needs to fix this in the gameplan, run quick passing game all the time because Nichols is really struggling to make reads and move the ball out.

[wbbfan]

1 minute ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

OL was great in Sask.  One sack was on them.  They were playing arguably the two best pass rushing DE's in the league and the best D in general at pressuring the QB.  Nichols struggles to get the ball out and really needs a simplified offense.  They ran a simple quick passing game with lots of misdirection and some rollouts in the first half and put together a bunch of drives.  They go to a straight dropback passing game in the second half and Nichols can barely complete a pass.

Great? no, solid-good for the most part? sure. yeah they had a hard match up, you dont become or perform "great" by beating up on bad opponents. You are great when you play great opponents and beat them. 

Yes nichols was doing a poor job of getting the ball out, but they had too many ole! blocks on the edge too. They gave up too many pressures, and didnt do a good enough job keeping DL engaged allowing them to attack passing lanes with their hands. Couple of times they made plays because they are great ends. But the OL was dropping the ball plenty too. 

[wbbfan]

Just now, JuranBoldenRules said:

Nichols is doing a lot of hesitating in the pocket this year and that's helping pass rushers and hurting his receivers and Harris.  They are always waiting for the ball, rarely see someone hit in stride, make catch, get creamed play over.  Not much YAC.  Lapo needs to fix this in the gameplan, run quick passing game all the time because Nichols is really struggling to make reads and move the ball out.

Hesitating, and at times he is tucking the ball in bad positions I do agree with that. And that hurts the entire offense no doubt. If they stick with nichols plop does need to do a much better job of adjusting no question. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

Just now, wbbfan said:

Great? no, solid-good for the most part? sure. yeah they had a hard match up, you dont become or perform "great" by beating up on bad opponents. You are great when you play great opponents and beat them. 

Yes nichols was doing a poor job of getting the ball out, but they had too many ole! blocks on the edge too. They gave up too many pressures, and didnt do a good enough job keeping DL engaged allowing them to attack passing lanes with their hands. Couple of times they made plays because they are great ends. But the OL was dropping the ball plenty too. 

Disagree.   They ran the ball at will when they ran the ball, Nichols had plenty of time.  Harris blew it on the one sack and no one even touched Jefferson on a slide protection.  No more than a half dozen pressures in that game against the most eager pass rush in the league.  It's not a pressure against a 3 man rush when the QB holds the ball for 7 seconds.

[wbbfan]

1 minute ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Disagree.   They ran the ball at will when they ran the ball, Nichols had plenty of time.  Harris blew it on the one sack and no one even touched Jefferson on a slide protection.  No more than a half dozen pressures in that game against the most eager pass rush in the league.  It's not a pressure against a 3 man rush when the QB holds the ball for 7 seconds.

Imo the run game was more feast or famine. Harris made the most out of cut back lanes and bouncing outside because the gaps were tight on a few plays. They did open a couple great holes for him as well. But it wasnt consistent at all. And a line can do much better at one aspect then the other. Especially a mediocre one. And our OL without bond and hardrick is pretty middle of the road. 

The second fastest pressure of the night was actually out of a 30 front. Id love to see some examples of a 7 second pocket though. Nichols was struggling with timing and pocket presence no doubt. He struggled more then the OL did/had, but they have also struggled. 

[Dragon37]

The biggest issue I have isn't so much Nichols but the lack of hot plays. We don't have them and it has hurt us in the last few games. That and the lack of motion of the pocket.

[Jerry1377]

Nothing we haven't said before but I wanted to put in my 2 cents.

 

Streveler needs to be played, and here's why.

He comes into the last 2 games cold, makes the right decisions and throws 2 perfect TD strikes.

He is a real threat to run which gives us an entire new dimension to the game.

Nichols has been consistently bad this year. He's taken too many coverage sacks and has thrown the ball away because he was too chicken **** to make the throw on the first 1 or 2 reads.

14/26 for whopping 166 yards 1 TD 2 ints against Sask

29/44 for 258 yards 1 TD 2 ints against Calgary

25/35 for 291 yards 2 TD 1 int against Ottawa

68/105  64% for 715 4 TD 5 ints

 

Streveler

is 64/99  64% for 737 yards 8 TD's to just 2 ints.

He also has a 6 yard rushing average, and considering hes doing all the 1 yard plunges, the guy can move.

How many sacks has Strev given up? Nichols turtles or throws the ball away when Strev at least has the ability to make some positive yards when a play breaks down.

 

Oshea, you need to pull Nichols when he struggles! Who says Nichols is a better passer?

 

 

[SpeedFlex27]

21 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Even with out dressler it just isnt the case. Adams, and thompkins are insanely talented. Washington is still too soon to quantify, but if he is any thing its a deep threat.

Thompkins was a legit nfl starter, and has shown great in his use here thus far. We dont have much design around him yet, but he catches every thing he should.

Darvin adams is playing at an elite level. Put him in any well run offense and he would be top couple in the league in every catagory. 

Dressler has similar health issues as allways, but has shown he is still the guy who can stretch the D, as well as catch a 4 yard pass on second and 10 and make a first down.

The problem hasnt been wrs getting open deep. If any thing we've seen tons of chances to hook up deep, but missed with passes and protection. If we cut thompkins, dressler, or adams they would immediately be picked up and start for another team. Thompkins and adams would start on any team in the league. Dressler would start on most of them, save one or two. How many teams would nichols start on right now? 

The Ol hasnt been great the last few weeks. (pass pro) weve seen a ton of pressure on nichols compared to the past when we saw him touched once a game or less and seldom sacked. Nichols has not dealt with or picked up the pressure well at all either. The offense has not adapted well to how teams have been able to pressure us.  Ol missing hardrick and bond, then the play of nichols, then the lack of adjustments by plop.  Wr talent is soo far down the list for why our offense is struggling its not even funny. 

Adams may start but on some teams he wouldn't be the #1 receiver. He's a solid #2 but in our offense he's #1. With Thompkins, you have to wonder why wouldn't LaPo have designs around him? Head scratcher. As far as Wolitarsky goes, he's starting to get involved in the offense a bit more. Almost like LaPo has had an ephinany… "Hey that guy can actually catch". I do disagree when you say WR talent is far down the list of problems on this team. It's a problem. If it isn't then LaPo isn't putting them in a position to be successful. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

9 minutes ago, Dragon37 said:

The biggest issue I have isn't so much Nichols but the lack of hot plays. We don't have them and it has hurt us in the last few games. That and the lack of motion of the pocket.

They showed some this week.  Had good adjustments for the blitz in the first half, including some quick routes behind the blitz and Harris.  Riders started showing more 3 man pressures, Bombers quit running and Nichols stared blankly downfield in the 2nd half.  Personally I'd run like crazy at those 3 man pressures and challenge them to take down Harris, Demski, Lafrance running downhill.  Bombers went away from it and didn't seem to have many plays with audibles for Nichols to adjust from pass to run against the 3 man rush, we saw it once and Harris got them into 3rd and short.  That was on one of the 2nd half FG drives.

Lapo is getting outfoxed every week and too often he's outfoxing himself.  Ya they have to adjust, but sometimes you have to trust what is working too.  You can also have multiple plans and options to switch into.  Seems like the adjustments get made at half and they can't switch out of that.  It's mind boggling how many games in the last calendar year that this team has gone 2 consecutive quarters (usually the 2nd and 3rd, sometimes 3rd and 4th) with basically no offensive production in terms of first downs, yards and points.

Edited September 3, 2018 by JuranBoldenRules

[JuranBoldenRules]

Just now, SpeedFlex27 said:

Adams may start but on some teams he wouldn't be the #1 receiver. He's a solid #2 but in our offense he's #1. With Thompkins, you have to wonder why wouldn't LaPo have designs around him? Head scratcher. As far as Wolitarsky goes, he's starting to get involved in the offense a bit more. Almost like LaPo has had an ephinany… "Hey that guy can actually catch". I do disagree when you say WR talent is far down the list of problems on this team. It's a problem. If it isn't then LaPo isn't putting them in a position to be successful. 

Maybe we should get Wolitarsky to change his name to FANTUZ and then Lapo will know to make him the first read more!

[SpeedFlex27]

Just now, JuranBoldenRules said:

Maybe we should get Wolitarsky to change his name to FANTUZ and then Lapo will know to make him the first read more!

Ready to try anything..  

[JuranBoldenRules]

You watch BLM and Reilly and how they can move in the pocket, step up, step around the rush and get out of the pocket when it is the right play.  You can't defend against that.  Then watch Nichols this season, no pocket presence, basically tap dancing in place until the rush gets him, nowhere near the level of these guys.

[trueBlue83]

3 hours ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

You watch BLM and Reilly and how they can move in the pocket, step up, step around the rush and get out of the pocket when it is the right play.  You can't defend against that.  Then watch Nichols this season, no pocket presence, basically tap dancing in place until the rush gets him, nowhere near the level of these guys.

It's amazing how they can extend a play by a few seconds and give receivers more time to find open space.... if only we had someone capable of something like that!  😬

[wbbfan]

3 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Adams may start but on some teams he wouldn't be the #1 receiver. He's a solid #2 but in our offense he's #1. With Thompkins, you have to wonder why wouldn't LaPo have designs around him? Head scratcher. As far as Wolitarsky goes, he's starting to get involved in the offense a bit more. Almost like LaPo has had an ephinany… "Hey that guy can actually catch". I do disagree when you say WR talent is far down the list of problems on this team. It's a problem. If it isn't then LaPo isn't putting them in a position to be successful. 

I would bet a years salary he starts on every team in the league. He is that good. Our usage of him and his strengths dont even mesh well with our offense and he still performs at an elite level. 

On one hand its easy to say, oh because its plop. And im well known to dislike him. But to be fair he already has considerable design rotating around adams, harris, demski, packages for streveler and stuff for dressler. Its good to have a play or two for each guy, but to have a package designed around each guy is too much to expect. Would be great though. And thompkins is going to be a guy that demands it in the future in my opinion. 

Woli seems like a guy who is never the deep look or the check down. He is kinda stuck in the middle though they did target him a good bit and he catches everything. I dont know if you build around him but he certainly should be used more as a hot read guy. 

With less talent we were rolling up 30-40 regularly. Without thompkins at that. The talent of our WR core with such low and suboptimal use of soo many guys isnt in question. Look at the off cut pieces weve let go that other teams have pounced on. Look at the flashes from guys buried on the depth chart. Remember back two years when we were forcing passes to hapless guys no one else would touch. We all know how much mos loves to start an extra NI to use an extra DI on teams. And weve seen how petermann can turn the ball up field for gains and how simonise can stretch the field. If the imps at the bottom were not very good we would be starting another NI wr. 

I could see an argument that each wr is used poorly in our system. Our system is rigid. We mash talent into it rather then adapt it to take advantage of what we have. 

[wbbfan]

3 hours ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

You watch BLM and Reilly and how they can move in the pocket, step up, step around the rush and get out of the pocket when it is the right play.  You can't defend against that.  Then watch Nichols this season, no pocket presence, basically tap dancing in place until the rush gets him, nowhere near the level of these guys.

reilly isnt human. The way he can shrug off defensive linemen allows him to command the pocket like few else. 

Streveler created an extra dimension with his legs that opened up more for everyone else. Right now nichols is soo shakey in the pocket its taking away what we didnt have to give. 

[SpeedFlex27]

53 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

I would bet a years salary he starts on every team in the league. He is that good. Our usage of him and his strengths dont even mesh well with our offense and he still performs at an elite level. 

On one hand its easy to say, oh because its plop. And im well known to dislike him. But to be fair he already has considerable design rotating around adams, harris, demski, packages for streveler and stuff for dressler. Its good to have a play or two for each guy, but to have a package designed around each guy is too much to expect. Would be great though. And thompkins is going to be a guy that demands it in the future in my opinion. 

Woli seems like a guy who is never the deep look or the check down. He is kinda stuck in the middle though they did target him a good bit and he catches everything. I dont know if you build around him but he certainly should be used more as a hot read guy. 

With less talent we were rolling up 30-40 regularly. Without thompkins at that. The talent of our WR core with such low and suboptimal use of soo many guys isnt in question. Look at the off cut pieces weve let go that other teams have pounced on. Look at the flashes from guys buried on the depth chart. Remember back two years when we were forcing passes to hapless guys no one else would touch. We all know how much mos loves to start an extra NI to use an extra DI on teams. And weve seen how petermann can turn the ball up field for gains and how simonise can stretch the field. If the imps at the bottom were not very good we would be starting another NI wr. 

I could see an argument that each wr is used poorly in our system. Our system is rigid. We mash talent into it rather then adapt it to take advantage of what we have. 

Oh, Adams can start for sure on other teams but I don't think he's a Derrell Walker type guy or a Kamar Jordan type player. He'd fit right with the Stamps & the Esks no question. I think it's too much to expect him to be our go to guy downfield which is what he is now when we throw deep. Our problem is the receiving depth behind Adams at the #2 & #3 positions. Thompkins may turn out to be very good but as is the Bombers way, it'll take us to November to find out. 

[Fatty Liver]

49 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

reilly isnt human. The way he can shrug off defensive linemen allows him to command the pocket like few else. 

Streveler created an extra dimension with his legs that opened up more for everyone else. Right now nichols is soo shakey in the pocket its taking away what we didnt have to give. 

Reilly is a football player first, QB second, he can run, break tackles and take hits or dish them out.  Nichols doesn't have that physical presence and doesn't expect to do any of that stuff, he's more like a golf pro playing football.  

[wbbfan]

Just now, SpeedFlex27 said:

Oh, Adams can start for sure on other teams but I don't think he's a Derrell Walker type guy or a Kamar Jordan type player. He'd fit right with the Stamps & the Esks no question. I think it's too much to expect him to be our go to guy downfield which is what he is now when we throw deep. Our problem is the receiving depth behind Adams at the #2 & #3 positions. Thompkins may turn out to be very good but as is the Bombers way, it'll take us to November to find out. 

With a good system and qbing he would be. Without it those guys arent. 

Dont agree that its too much to expect him to be the deep guy. He put up 259 yards after the catch last year on 1120 yards, and averaged a TD every 10-11 catches. This year he is averaging a touch down every 5.4 catches. Hes averaging 15.5 yards per catch this year. Stegall averaged 17.8 and 5.9 catches per td. Stegall also benefited from an offense that was designed around him to stretch the field for alot of his career.  3 of the last 4 years adams longest play has been in the 70 yard range. I mean 162 2 tds 20.3 ypc and 72 long against ottawa this year. 195 1 td 2.9 on his best game last year. 

Darvin adams ability to stretch the D isnt an issue. Its our ability to get it to him deep. We dont and cant toss a 50/50 deep ball. Our deep ball completions tend to be to guys with 4+ strides who stop to catch the ball or who have to come back to the ball to catch it. 

Kenbrell has done legitimate damage and started at the nfl level. He has caught everything thrown near him and is on track for 1000 yards receiving. 

Dressler, adams, demski plus wolitarski was on fire when we fed him the ball.