Comparison: 2017 Ti-Cats / 2018 Bombers

[trueBlue83]

Thinking today about where Hamilton was around this time last year... sure the Bombers aren't 0-8.  But the similarities are absolutely there.  A lot of talent on the field, but a coach who had clearly lost the room.

The first domino to fall, was Jeff Reinebold being relieved of his duties as Defensive Co-Ordinator.  The losing continued, and a month later, Kent Austin "stepped down" (although come on, no coach ever truly steps downs willingly). 

Zach Collaros was Kent Austin's guy, and he seemed to stick with him through thick & thin.  Masoli actually started the 2016 season due to an injury to Collaros, and won his first game, and showed some real flashes that be could play.   When Collaros was good to go again, back to #2 for Masoli.  That's life when you're the "unproven" guy.   2017 Collaros, clearly wasn't the same QB and it was showing.

Enter June Jones in late August 2017.... his first move, naming "unproven" Jerimiah Masoli his starting QB.  Although Hamilton did not make the playoffs, they completely turned their team around, and finished a respectable 6-4 after the coaching and QB change.  Some believed Hamilton to be the hottest team in the league as the season ended.

Now does the Bomber brass have the stones to make changes like Hamilton did?  I think most would believe NO.   But we are trending very much like Hamilton was early last season.   The talent is there... but the belief has to be slipping.

O'Shea sticking with Nichols seems exactly like Austin sticking with Collaros.  Something has to change, and if O'Shea wants to continue to tie his hitch to the Nichols carriage, I think he's in for a similar fate to Austin.   He's proven time and time again over the last while that he's too stubborn to do the right thing, and when he does make mistakes, just arrogantly argues that he'd make the move again.

If this is going to be a similar story, where the team gets turned around midway through the season... it starts with a coach getting the axe.  Only we're 5 weeks behind what Hamilton did last year.   So... given that, skip ahead to the QB switch.   This coaching staff has nothing to lose and everything to gain trying something new.

 

[Eternal optimist]

One game, a season does not make.

[pigseye]

There will be some interesting scenarios for next year depending on how the team finishes this year. MOS will be on the last year of his contract while Lapo/Hall would be up. 

If the Bombers tank this year, I would be surprised if both coordinators are back. So if you are Walters, do you let MOS hire his new coordinators for possibly his last year or do you, with the expectation that one of them will be the next HC of Bombers when MOS contract is up ie. MOS is a lame duck HC for 2019. Obviously, any coordinator that you do manage to land will also have to have the assistant HC handle, if he's making a lateral move, with the assurance from Walters that he will be the next HC of the Bombers. There are also some up and coming position coaches out there who you could roll the dice on, again, I mean MOS didn't exactly have a wealth of coaching experience before being handed the HC job. 

How the Bombers finish the season is going to impact a lot of coaching jobs in Winnipeg next season. 

 

[NorthernSkunk]

Winning the next game would be a nice change of pace.

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, NorthernSkunk said:

Winning the next game would be a nice change of pace.

If we don't, we will be officially in freefall. If we get blown out, there will be bodies swinging from lamp posts.

 

 

 

 

[SPuDS]

Coach that lost the room?  lmao. If there is anything to be said for Mike Oshea, it's that his players will continually get up and run full tilt into a wall for him..

 

Losing the room wont happen.  will he get the room back on track?? Debatable.  I want to believe so.  it is definitely gut check time for this coaching staff.

[trueBlue83]

8 minutes ago, SPuDS said:

Coach that lost the room?  lmao. If there is anything to be said for Mike Oshea, it's that his players will continually get up and run full tilt into a wall for him..

This was in reference to Austin last year.... I never said O'Shea has lost the room.  Also not saying that he may not eventually either though.

[17to85]

20 hours ago, trueBlue83 said:

This was in reference to Austin last year.... I never said O'Shea has lost the room.  Also not saying that he may not eventually either though.

You didn't say it, you implied it which is the exact same thing. 

So no, MOS hasn't lost the room. I think we over estimated the talent this team has, especially at receiver. Darvin Adams is too inconsistent to be our #1 guy, would much rather that he was the #3 guy. Dressler is still a good player but he's old and getting hurt more so again, he should not be the only reliable guy we have out there. It's fallen apart without him. Bowman was a bust, Thompkins has shown some flashes but seems to never see the ball until it's too late, no idea why that is. The Canadians are good, but we are missing those receivers who really step up and consistently make plays for their qb. 

[NorthernSkunk]

I am not judging the recievers until they get a QB who is more consistent with his throws. 

[17to85]

1 minute ago, NorthernSkunk said:

I am not judging the recievers until they get a QB who is more consistent with his throws. 

OK but I will judge receivers who drop passes that hit them squarely in the hands on 2nd downs (Thompkins and Adams on Labour Day, Washington volleyed up the first INT too, who knows what happens if he either knocked it down or just let it do by) So you can go ahead and keep pinning it all on Nichols but his receivers ain't helping him. How about the play where Nichols rolled out of the pocket to escape pressure and none of his receivers could get open for him and he had to throw the ball away? How about all the times the pressure came and there were no options for Nichols? Either Lapo has no plays called for that (unlikely much as I think Lapo is a ***** sometimes) or the receivers aren't getting open for the qb. 

[NorthernSkunk]

1 minute ago, 17to85 said:

OK but I will judge receivers who drop passes that hit them squarely in the hands on 2nd downs (Thompkins and Adams on Labour Day, Washington volleyed up the first INT too, who knows what happens if he either knocked it down or just let it do by) So you can go ahead and keep pinning it all on Nichols but his receivers ain't helping him. How about the play where Nichols rolled out of the pocket to escape pressure and none of his receivers could get open for him and he had to throw the ball away? How about all the times the pressure came and there were no options for Nichols? Either Lapo has no plays called for that (unlikely much as I think Lapo is a ***** sometimes) or the receivers aren't getting open for the qb. 

Somebody here posted that at a game they were at recievers were open,  other posters have said the same.  The talk now is that matt can't pull the trigger when he needs to...... yes bad drops by receivers suck, do we have more than any other team ?....again that first interception was on Nichols bad throws....and when the pressure comes he needs to run

[SpeedFlex27]

2 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

OK but I will judge receivers who drop passes that hit them squarely in the hands on 2nd downs (Thompkins and Adams on Labour Day, Washington volleyed up the first INT too, who knows what happens if he either knocked it down or just let it do by) So you can go ahead and keep pinning it all on Nichols but his receivers ain't helping him. How about the play where Nichols rolled out of the pocket to escape pressure and none of his receivers could get open for him and he had to throw the ball away? How about all the times the pressure came and there were no options for Nichols? Either Lapo has no plays called for that (unlikely much as I think Lapo is a ***** sometimes) or the receivers aren't getting open for the qb. 

What I've been saying. Our American receivers aren't helping Nichols play better. I know the play you speak of.  Our qb is in trouble & they do nothing to help him out. Somehow that's on Nichols? Either these receivers don't work hard enough to get open or they can't. 

[NorthernSkunk]

Just now, SpeedFlex27 said:

What I've been saying. Our American receivers aren't helping Nichols play better. I know the play you speak of.  Our qb is in trouble & they do nothing to help him out. Somehow that's on Nichols? Either these receivers don't work hard enough to get open or they can't. 

Or they are and matt ain't throwing the ball when he should........

[NorthernSkunk]

TSN needs to show more of the field on some plays.... for me most of the recievers run right off the screen and I don't have a clue who is open or not lol.... 

[trueBlue83]

30 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

You didn't say it, you implied it which is the exact same thing. 

yeah, I guess you know better about what I'm trying to say than I do!

the receivers aren't the whole problem.... they're limited in what they can do because of a QB with limited capability.

If LaPo got to gameplan 4 quarters for Streveler, I bet you there would be a much more spread out offense, and you'd see these guys making plays.  Everyone just seems to be going through the motions come the second half when Nichols does 2 and out again...  stuff like this eventually divides the room when the belief is gone.

 

[JuranBoldenRules]

29 minutes ago, NorthernSkunk said:

TSN needs to show more of the field on some plays.... for me most of the recievers run right off the screen and I don't have a clue who is open or not lol.... 

Doesn't matter who's open the QB goes through reads.  If he's opened up to his right for instance why the hell would a DB or LB have tight coverage on a guy on the far left side of the field?  The QB can't make that throw.

[17to85]

25 minutes ago, trueBlue83 said:

If LaPo got to gameplan 4 quarters for Streveler, I bet you there would be a much more spread out offense, and you'd see these guys making plays

Well the evidence in the first 3 games seems to show otherwise. Blew a lead late against Edmonton because the offense got bogged down, never got going at all against Hamilton and yes the Montreal game was good, but it was Montreal so how much does that really mean? 

[Mark H.]

20 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Doesn't matter who's open the QB goes through reads.  If he's opened up to his right for instance why the hell would a DB or LB have tight coverage on a guy on the far left side of the field?  The QB can't make that throw.

Burris used to make those throws. Some got picked, but he definitely made them. 

[NorthernSkunk]

28 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Doesn't matter who's open the QB goes through reads.  If he's opened up to his right for instance why the hell would a DB or LB have tight coverage on a guy on the far left side of the field?  The QB can't make that throw.

Until he has to scramble then it might become an option (?) 

[trueBlue83]

11 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Well the evidence in the first 3 games seems to show otherwise. Blew a lead late against Edmonton because the offense got bogged down, never got going at all against Hamilton and yes the Montreal game was good, but it was Montreal so how much does that really mean? 

basically what you're saying is that Streveler has hit his peak, and isn't going to get any better with experience.

That you Coach O'Shea??

[JuranBoldenRules]

Just now, NorthernSkunk said:

Until he has to scramble then it might become an option (?) 

And the defense has time to get there.  My point is the coverage is going to far tighter to the play side and if you're just watching for "open" receivers you're going to think every QB is an idiot because he's missing a ton of open guys.

[Dragon37]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

OK but I will judge receivers who drop passes that hit them squarely in the hands on 2nd downs (Thompkins and Adams on Labour Day, Washington volleyed up the first INT too, who knows what happens if he either knocked it down or just let it do by) So you can go ahead and keep pinning it all on Nichols but his receivers ain't helping him. How about the play where Nichols rolled out of the pocket to escape pressure and none of his receivers could get open for him and he had to throw the ball away? How about all the times the pressure came and there were no options for Nichols? Either Lapo has no plays called for that (unlikely much as I think Lapo is a ***** sometimes) or the receivers aren't getting open for the qb. 

Gotta agree with you on this. However, I have to wonder too what they are being told to do when the QB is in trouble. Are they told to come back? It seems to me that instead of getting open at different levels they all seem to go deeper. I do think our receivers are okay, not great, but they are not stepping up as much as they should. Yes there are crappy throws and missed open guys but every QB does that but the one thing I notice, no matter the QB, we don’t often don’t get the help on scrambles as other teams

[JuranBoldenRules]

1 minute ago, Dragon37 said:

Gotta agree with you on this. However, I have to wonder too what they are being told to do when the QB is in trouble. Are they told to come back? It seems to me that instead of getting open at different levels they all seem to go deeper. I do think our receivers are okay, not great, but they are not stepping up as much as they should. Yes there are crappy throws and missed open guys but every QB does that but the one thing I notice, no matter the QB, we don’t often don’t get the help on scrambles as other teams

How often does Nichols actually scramble out of the pocket?  Usually he just freezes in the pocket and starts doing the 2 step until he finally throws it out of bounds or he gets sacked.

[17to85]

5 minutes ago, trueBlue83 said:

basically what you're saying is that Streveler has hit his peak, and isn't going to get any better with experience.

That you Coach O'Shea??

No I said that Lapo gonna Lapo. 

I am a huge Streveler fan, but Lapo gotta go. 

[Dragon37]

1 minute ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

How often does Nichols actually scramble out of the pocket?  Usually he just freezes in the pocket and starts doing the 2 step until he finally throws it out of bounds or he gets sacked.

As often as he can. If he holding the ball too long that’s not always on him. That’s a coverage sack and you need to adjust your O. Nichols scrambled a few times in the last game and even ran when he needed to.