School Zones

[Eternal optimist]

17 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Maybe in Manitoba but here in AB school starts tomorrow. I wonder if it's the same this year in Hamilton  as I read last year that there were a lot of complaints (this being one of them) that school started the next day. 

In MB don't forget the cash grab on school zone speeds of 30 KM/H!.

[Brandon]

2 hours ago, Eternal optimist said:

In MB don't forget the cash grab on school zone speeds of 30 KM/H!.

[JCon]

2 hours ago, Eternal optimist said:

In MB don't forget the cash grab on school zone speeds of 30 KM/H!.

Cash grab? Just slow the **** down. It's a school zone. 

[Mark H.]

Way back when I was doing a student teaching practicum...one of the children got clipped by a rear view mirror - broke her wrist.

It was completely stupid and unnecessary. So yep, just slow the heck down.

 

[SpeedFlex27]

4 hours ago, Eternal optimist said:

In MB don't forget the cash grab on school zone speeds of 30 KM/H!.

Same here... The cops are warning they'll be out in full force with their radar guns in Calgary today. But if you choose to speed in a school zone you deserve what you get. 

Edited September 4, 2018 by SpeedFlex27

[Eternal optimist]

9 hours ago, JCon said:

Cash grab? Just slow the **** down. It's a school zone. 

Oh I have no quarrel with the speed limits, what bothers me is their convoluted rules for enforcing them. What is the logic behind only having the zones in effect September - June? During summer, often there are even more kids playing on the play structures, seeing as how they are on summer break? If it were up to me, just a flat 30 KM/h school zone rate year-round, dawn till dusk.

[Mark H.]

8 minutes ago, Eternal optimist said:

Oh I have no quarrel with the speed limits, what bothers me is their convoluted rules for enforcing them. What is the logic behind only having the zones in effect September - June? During summer, often there are even more kids playing on the play structures, seeing as how they are on summer break? If it were up to me, just a flat 30 KM/h school zone rate year-round, dawn till dusk.

That is true around some schools - fair point. 

[Super Duper Negatron]

21 minutes ago, Eternal optimist said:

Oh I have no quarrel with the speed limits, what bothers me is their convoluted rules for enforcing them. What is the logic behind only having the zones in effect September - June? During summer, often there are even more kids playing on the play structures, seeing as how they are on summer break? If it were up to me, just a flat 30 KM/h school zone rate year-round, dawn till dusk.

Agree with this. 24/7, 365 even. No ambiguity.

[Brandon]

1 hour ago, Eternal optimist said:

Oh I have no quarrel with the speed limits, what bothers me is their convoluted rules for enforcing them. What is the logic behind only having the zones in effect September - June? During summer, often there are even more kids playing on the play structures, seeing as how they are on summer break? If it were up to me, just a flat 30 KM/h school zone rate year-round, dawn till dusk.

What I don't get is why the times for the school zones are so late.  An even easier and better way to deal with the situation is to add the wider speed bumps that I've seen around town.   It won't wreck the bottom of your car and it is easily visible and does a good job of slowing traffic down. 

[NorthernSkunk]

No sense upping the speed at dusk.....some kids are still out even then...

[JCon]

2 hours ago, Eternal optimist said:

Oh I have no quarrel with the speed limits, what bothers me is their convoluted rules for enforcing them. What is the logic behind only having the zones in effect September - June? During summer, often there are even more kids playing on the play structures, seeing as how they are on summer break? If it were up to me, just a flat 30 KM/h school zone rate year-round, dawn till dusk.

I agree wholeheartedly. Leave it at 30KM/h year-round, day or night. 

Edited September 5, 2018 by JCon

[TBURGESS]

You'd love Calgary then. Stupid 30 playground zones in all schools zones all year long until 9 PM. No kids anywhere near the the schools after school hours or in the summer. I've got no problem with slowing down during school hours, when there is actually a problem, but I chafe at slowing down when there aren't any kids around because it's not helping anyone... it's just annoying the drivers who start to ignore the signs.

Calgary's also talking about changing all side streets to 30K all the time. It will cost 2-5 Million to change the signage, but it will bring in millions in speed zone ticket revenue yearly. BTW: Last year, 2 people were killed on side streets with the current speed limit and there's no guarantee that this will fix anything at all.

[Eternal optimist]

7 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

You'd love Calgary then. Stupid 30 playground zones in all schools zones all year long until 9 PM. No kids anywhere near the the schools after school hours or in the summer. I've got no problem with slowing down during school hours, when there is actually a problem, but I chafe at slowing down when there aren't any kids around because it's not helping anyone... it's just annoying the drivers who start to ignore the signs.

Calgary's also talking about changing all side streets to 30K all the time. It will cost 2-5 Million to change the signage, but it will bring in millions in speed zone ticket revenue yearly. BTW: Last year, 2 people were killed on side streets with the current speed limit and there's no guarantee that this will fix anything at all.

Most recent report available for Winnipeg shows we had 4 pedestrian fatalities in 2016 (source: https://winnipeg.ca/publicworks/trafficControl/pdf/AnnualCollisionReport_2016.pdf. - page 7). Our estimated population for that year is about 727,500, by comparison, Calgary's is much more 1,239,220 (those are just estimates from Google). Reduced speed limits won't stop accidents from happening, but it has been shown to reduce the severity of injuries.

As for drivers ignoring the signs / law - a law is only as good as it is enforced.

[Mark H.]

25 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

You'd love Calgary then. Stupid 30 playground zones in all schools zones all year long until 9 PM. No kids anywhere near the the schools after school hours or in the summer. I've got no problem with slowing down during school hours, when there is actually a problem, but I chafe at slowing down when there aren't any kids around because it's not helping anyone... it's just annoying the drivers who start to ignore the signs.

That’s not true of every school. They are all public spaces and many of those play structures get used regularly all summer. 

[TBURGESS]

2 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

That’s not true of every school. They are all public spaces and many of those play structures get used regularly all summer. 

That was true when I was a kid, but the only folks I see in school playgrounds in the summer these days are softball players with a few beers. I haven't seen any kids in any playground or school zones for the entire summer.

[Mark H.]

3 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

That was true when I was a kid, but the only folks I see in school playgrounds in the summer these days are softball players with a few beers. I haven't seen any kids in any playground or school zones for the entire summer.

Hmmm interesting. 

[Brandon]

24 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

That was true when I was a kid, but the only folks I see in school playgrounds in the summer these days are softball players with a few beers. I haven't seen any kids in any playground or school zones for the entire summer.

This times a million....   my previous house was across the street from a school with two playgrounds , soccer fields,  baseball fields ,  basketball nets.   Sadly even during summer at most you might see 3 different sets of kids/people.   In my current house which is a newer area I do see more kids at playgrounds but it's far from being busy at any point in time.   

 

[JuranBoldenRules]

1 minute ago, Brandon said:

This times a million....   my previous house was across the street from a school with two playgrounds , soccer fields,  baseball fields ,  basketball nets.   Sadly even during summer at most you might see 3 different sets of kids/people.   In my current house which is a newer area I do see more kids at playgrounds but it's far from being busy at any point in time.   

 

Sure but once the kids do get outside they are too fat and slow to dodge a car going 50.

[SpeedFlex27]

Kids don't play anything anymore. Unless it's structured on a team. I remember as a teen having 20 kids show up for a touch football game in the nearest playground or school yard. 

[Rod Black]

4 hours ago, Eternal optimist said:

Oh I have no quarrel with the speed limits, what bothers me is their convoluted rules for enforcing them. What is the logic behind only having the zones in effect September - June? During summer, often there are even more kids playing on the play structures, seeing as how they are on summer break? If it were up to me, just a flat 30 KM/h school zone rate year-round, dawn till dusk.

Compliance to the program you’d think would be paramount for safety.

The rules are effectively incomprehensible to many drivers. A school on a truck route has a speed limit of 60. The 30km is only on non regional streets, posted times and months.  It’s suppose to be about safety, but when photo enforcement drivers leave their vehicles (they are suppose to witness), Park their units on private property, park at hydrants are not defined as emergency vehicles, and way more questionable practices. The program is not viewed as credible to citizens. Credible to politicians cause they don’t have to explain an claim blameless to raise money. Great opportunity for them to deflect opposition or criticism. 

Speed bumps as mentioned would assist with warnings. Florida has flashing lights.  Arizona warns with huge signs when photo radar is in use. Many ways to get drivers to comply to a much greater extent, rather than sleeping Hernandez taking your picture. 

Wise up Winnpeg at FB is interesting. 

[The Unknown Poster]

School Zone enforcement is about making money.  Period.  Its not about safety.  So to me, its a cash grab and the people who defend it arent seeing the big picture.

Here's why.  You know when the school zones are absolutely, 100% always enforced?  When people are more likely to forget they exist and kids are least likely to be out (holidays, before/after school etc).  Never fails.  Thats not about safety.

Secondly, there are tons of activities after 5:30 but apparently the concern for the lives of children ends at 5:30.  That tells you its a cash grab.  They are being efficient about their enforcement to maximize profits.

Thirdly, there was no overwhelming safety issue.  We all have stories of idiots driving too fast when kids are around (whether its a school zone, school hours or not) but there was not an immediate and critical need.  The streets were not running red with the blood of children.  It just wasnt true.  When I was in elementary school, we had two serious incidents of kids being hit by cars (one was outside the school zone).  

The old law was that you were to slow down when kids were present.  If there was an issue in a particular area, police would do enforcement.  You know, old school, where they pull people over, educate them and give them a ticket.  Photo radar is a tax collector on the owner of the car.  Thats it.  

Anyway...thats my two cents.

[JCon]

Just now, The Unknown Poster said:

School Zone enforcement is about making money.  Period.  Its not about safety.  So to me, its a cash grab and the people who defend it arent seeing the big picture.

Here's why.  You know when the school zones are absolutely, 100% always enforced?  When people are more likely to forget they exist and kids are least likely to be out (holidays, before/after school etc).  Never fails.  Thats not about safety.

Secondly, there are tons of activities after 5:30 but apparently the concern for the lives of children ends at 5:30.  That tells you its a cash grab.  They are being efficient about their enforcement to maximize profits.

Thirdly, there was no overwhelming safety issue.  We all have stories of idiots driving too fast when kids are around (whether its a school zone, school hours or not) but there was not an immediate and critical need.  The streets were not running red with the blood of children.  It just wasnt true.  When I was in elementary school, we had two serious incidents of kids being hit by cars (one was outside the school zone).  

The old law was that you were to slow down when kids were present.  If there was an issue in a particular area, police would do enforcement.  You know, old school, where they pull people over, educate them and give them a ticket.  Photo radar is a tax collector on the owner of the car.  Thats it.  

Anyway...thats my two cents.

I disagree. I think it's about trying to appease everyone. A solution born by politicians and not experts. 

Experts would have told you to change the speed to 30KM/h all the time. Heck, experts would have said to change all the residential streets to 30Km/h (or 40KM/h). 

But politicians don't want to face upset people, so they decide to go half way. Just during school hours (+2 hours on each end) and not on weekends. Everyone is happy (ha!).

So instead of having a consistent, expert supported, policy, they have this wishy-washy policy where people need to check their clocks and remember what day of the week it is. 

 

[The Unknown Poster]

Just now, JCon said:

I disagree. I think it's about trying to appease everyone. A solution born by politicians and not experts. 

Experts would have told you to change the speed to 30KM/h all the time. Heck, experts would have said to change all the residential streets to 30Km/h (or 40KM/h). 

But politicians don't want to face upset people, so they decide to go half way. Just during school hours (+2 hours on each end) and not on weekends. Everyone is happy (ha!).

So instead of having a consistent, expert supported, policy, they have this wishy-washy policy where people need to check their clocks and remember what day of the week it is. 

 

I think experts would have said the old law worked perfectly fine, proven by the lack of kids being hit by cars and would have instead recommended actual police enforcement in areas where it was deemed necessary.

They likely would have recommended increased signage to indicate school zones (I've driven through areas Im not familiar with and some of those school zones sneak up on you).  The fact there are still school zones where the signage is not adequate is indicative of the fact its a cash grab.  If it werent, the city would gladly "over-signage" the area, if their main goal was to never give out a ticket (because it means everyone is driving slower).  Clearly, the city does not want to give out zero tickets.

People should slow down where kids are active.  That should be everywhere, not just school zones.  But speed should not be lowered just to produce revenue.  If the speed limit is 60 and the weather is awful and you drive 60, you can be ticketed for not driving to conditions.  If kids are present and you fly by, you should be open to ticketing.  But that requires real police work.

Lowering to 30 all the time in residential areas is just mind-numbing to me.  Enforce laws, enforce common sense.  Dont create Dukes of Hazzard style speed traps with tax collectors hiding around poorly signed zones on holidays to create revenue from car owners.  

[FrostyWinnipeg]

On 2018-09-04 at 8:43 AM, JCon said:

Cash grab? Just slow the **** down. It's a school zone. 

Have not more kids died on school trips then being hit by cars the last 30 years?

[Rod Black]

Photo enforcement is contracted out. The problem with this particular contract is, that the contractor is paid “commission” per ticket. The enterprise  benefiting with commissions from citizens violations of a law, is a capricious and lazy method of enforcement.