Game Day Thread - Banjo Bowl

[JuranBoldenRules]

9 minutes ago, trueBlue83 said:

As much as this is partially true, I also felt the Riders were ready for Streveler.  With Nichols struggles, I'm positive they watched all the available film on Chris knowing they'd likely see him in the second half.  On his read option where he tried to take off up the middle (a play that has worked for him almost every time), they knew to watch for it and snubbed it out right away.

Also, knowing he's still a rookie, brought the heat and said 'force him to make a quick decision' .   There was still positive signs though, and I think they can build from it!

They didn’t run a single read option.  You are talking about a quarterback draw.  There was no other option.  The play was just Streveler running, no back to hand it to, no pass option, no read to make other than for Streveler to try to find a gap to run to.  

They had zippo installed for Streveler, nothing.  The only difference between the calls for him and Nichols was they called QB Draw twice in that half he played.  It was a disgraceful display of coaching by Lapolice.  How can they go into that game knowing where Nichols is at and not give reps to Streveler and have a game plan ready for Streveler as well?  To me that’s  fireable amount of negligence for an OC.

[Doublezero]

Just now, JuranBoldenRules said:

They didn’t run a single read option.  You are talking about a quarterback draw.  There was no other option.  The play was just Streveler running, no back to hand it to, no pass option, no read to make other than for Streveler to try to find a gap to run to.  

They had zippo installed for Streveler, nothing.  The only difference between the calls for him and Nichols was they called QB Draw twice in that half he played.  It was a disgraceful display of coaching by Lapolice.  How can they go into that game knowing where Nichols is at and not give reps to Streveler and have a game plan ready for Streveler as well?  To me that’s  fireable amount of negligence for an OC.

OK and what about the QB coach - does Buck Pierce wear any of that?

[trueBlue83]

I always thought LaPo got a bit of a raw deal back in 2012... but maybe he really just doesn't have it anymore.

[JuranBoldenRules]

Just now, Doublezero said:

OK and what about the QB coach - does Buck Pierce wear any of that?

Let him call the plays and find out.

[ddanger]

1 hour ago, trueBlue83 said:

As much as this is partially true, I also felt the Riders were ready for Streveler.  With Nichols struggles, I'm positive they watched all the available film on Chris knowing they'd likely see him in the second half.  On his read option where he tried to take off up the middle (a play that has worked for him almost every time), they knew to watch for it and snubbed it out right away.

Also, knowing he's still a rookie, brought the heat and said 'force him to make a quick decision' .   There was still positive signs though, and I think they can build from it!

Agreed. So we go back to the other heavily flogged point......we got out-coached again.

[White Out]

Bad news for the Nichols haters: Streveler looked pretty bad too. 

Let me just back off a little and say before I continue that Nichols had a terrible game and his 2 pick 6's were clearly the difference. But Streveler tossed a pick, looked deer in headlights, and had one good drive in half a game. He's not the answer. This is definitely a coaching and personnel problem. I don't know who should start against Montreal... but I have a really bad feeling that either option will not drive much in the way of results. Montreal appears to have found confidence and a spark, while our team is drowning. 

I just don't think you can go back to Streveler against the Als after his total inability to move the offence in the 2nd half. He had 1 good drive and then had the same problems Nichols had: no one was open. The scheme was terrible. Nichols has to try and stop forcing things and I think he remains our best chance to win... but has to cool his jets. He's clearly fighting it hard and trying too hard.

If we lose against Montreal all bets are off for missing the playoffs. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

2 minutes ago, White Out said:

Bad news for the Nichols haters: Streveler looked pretty bad too. 

Let me just back off a little and say before I continue that Nichols had a terrible game and his 2 pick 6's were clearly the difference. But Streveler tossed a pick, looked deer in headlights, and had one good drive in half a game. He's not the answer. This is definitely a coaching and personnel problem. I don't know who should start against Montreal... but I have a really bad feeling that either option will not drive much in the way of results. Montreal appears to have found confidence and a spark, while our team is drowning. 

I just don't think you can go back to Streveler against the Als after his total inability to move the offence in the 2nd half. He had 1 good drive and then had the same problems Nichols had: no one was open. The scheme was terrible. Nichols has to try and stop forcing things and I think he remains our best chance to win... but has to cool his jets. He's clearly fighting it hard and trying too hard.

If we lose against Montreal all bets are off for missing the playoffs. 

Streveler looked alright considering he was running Nichols offense and Nichols is basically the complete opposite style of QB, along with Streveler's level of experience.  Lapo also had about 5 playcalls yesterday, Harris/Flanders search run, Demski sweep, QB Draw, RB slip screen and a handful of pocket passing plays.  Can't really judge Streveler until he actually gets to run an offense designed for his strengths.

[TheSource]

Just now, White Out said:

Bad news for the Nichols haters: Streveler looked pretty bad too. 

Let me just back off a little and say before I continue that Nichols had a terrible game and his 2 pick 6's were clearly the difference. But Streveler tossed a pick, looked deer in headlights, and had one good drive in half a game. He's not the answer. This is definitely a coaching and personnel problem. I don't know who should start against Montreal... but I have a really bad feeling that either option will not drive much in the way of results. Montreal appears to have found confidence and a spark, while our team is drowning. 

I just don't think you can go back to Streveler against the Als after his total inability to move the offence in the 2nd half. He had 1 good drive and then had the same problems Nichols had: no one was open. The scheme was terrible. Nichols has to try and stop forcing things and I think he remains our best chance to win... but has to cool his jets. He's clearly fighting it hard and trying too hard.

If we lose against Montreal all bets are off for missing the playoffs. 

 

There is a reason why Streveler performed similar to Nichols and that is because the problems with the O are far more than the quarterback. In fact, if you put Doug Flutie in his prime in there with no other changes the results would still be the same.

People want this to be a QB issue because in reality that is something that is more easily fixed rather than admitting that the talent level at every position from the OLine through to every position in the receiving corps must be seriously upgraded. Even for teams that continually improve and know what they are doing such as Edmonton, Calagary, Hamilton, and Ottawa, it would take 2 years to fully replace all the problem areas with personnel on this Winnipeg team - both on offence and defense. With Winnipeg, assuming that time stood still, it would take them between 5 and 10 more years to figure that out, assuming Miller and the BOD are prepared to stand pat for that long.

 

[JuranBoldenRules]

6 minutes ago, TheSource said:

 

There is a reason why Streveler performed similar to Nichols and that is because the problems with the O are far more than the quarterback. In fact, if you put Doug Flutie in his prime in there with no other changes the results would still be the same.

People want this to be a QB issue because in reality that is something that is more easily fixed rather than admitting that the talent level at every position from the OLine through to every position in the receiving corps must be seriously upgraded. Even for teams that continually improve and know what they are doing such as Edmonton, Calagary, Hamilton, and Ottawa, it would take 2 years to fully replace all the problem areas with personnel on this Winnipeg team - both on offence and defense. With Winnipeg, assuming that time stood still, it would take them between 5 and 10 more years to figure that out, assuming Miller and the BOD are prepared to stand pat for that long.

 

You don't even make sense.  5-10 years to change personnel?  Most of these players careers don't last more than 3-4 years, and very few play on the same team that long.

[trueBlue83]

1 minute ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

You don't even make sense.  5-10 years to change personnel?  Most of these players careers don't last more than 3-4 years, and very few play on the same team that long.

lol.... ummm... Ottawa didn't exist and won a Grey Cup 3 years later.

[Stickem]

Anyone who could not see that Nichols (and granted some of the play calling) were the reason for this loss is suffering from ostrich syndrome....To tackle a problem and correcting it has to be firstly admitting and recognizing that there is a problem...Trying to cover it up just exacerbated the problem

[Guest J5V]

You have to have coaches that know how to get players to play well together. O'Shea doesn't have enough experience so he relies on Lapo and Hall to do that job. As bad as Hall is, Lapo is worse. They all need to go as far as I'm concerned.

[TBURGESS]

11 minutes ago, J5V said:

You have to have coaches that know how to get players to play well together. O'Shea doesn't have enough experience so he relies on Lapo and Hall to do that job. As bad as Hall is, Lapo is worse. They all need to go as far as I'm concerned.

Please stop using the inexperienced excuse. He's in his 5th year as a HC.

[Guest J5V]

3 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

Please stop using the inexperienced excuse. He's in his 5th year as a HC.

My point was he never learned how to be a good HC from a mentor. He could coach another 5 years and still have no clue. He needs to be an assistant and learn from a guy like Trestman or at least an older coach that knows what he's doing. 

[Mark H.]

I don’t where all this OL bashing is coming from. You can’t find a better OL, depth included, than the Bombers came out training camp with. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

6 minutes ago, J5V said:

My point was he never learned how to be a good HC from a mentor. He could coach another 5 years and still have no clue. He needs to be an assistant and learn from a guy like Trestman or at least an older coach that knows what he's doing. 

He was an assistant for 4 seasons in Toronto under Barker and Milanovich.  Special Teams, the coach who most closely works in game with the head coach to make in game decisions.

O'Shea is not the kind of head coach who is going to take over the O or the D.  He's an overseer.  Wally Buono is the same way.  He manages the team.  He's not going to be like Chris Jones who coaches every play on D and has nothing to do with the rest of the team during the practice week and the game.  We've had those coaches, Lapo is that kind of head coach who coached the offense and had nothing to do with the rest of the team.

The only thing I blame O'Shea for is for trusting Lapo with the offense.  They needed to integrate Streveler at least by the LDC given how Nichols was struggling.  They let Nichols get to this point and Lapo flat out refuses to use Streveler at all.  He indicated this in his media scrum this week.  I'd have had the press release out this morning terminating Lapo.  He has not developed an offense that utilizes the strengths of the players in it.  We have under utilized a number of useful players and continued to go to the well with garbage players like Adams getting targeted repeatedly and not producing.  

[Floyd]

I know Osh will take the fall... but do we have Richie Hall and Lapo because Miller will not pay for a better coordinator?

Lapo seems like a high-priced coordinator but he was out of football for a few years... so who knows...

 

[JuranBoldenRules]

1 minute ago, Floyd said:

I know Osh will take the fall... but do we have Richie Hall and Lapo because Miller will not pay for a better coordinator?

Lapo seems like a high-priced coordinator but he was out of football for a few years... so who knows...

 

Who do you think pays coordinators more?  I mean Sask has a staff of 20 of Jones' Tennessee buddies and some CFL vets he worked with like McAdoo, but who is getting paid more?

[Guest J5V]

14 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

I don’t where all this OL bashing is coming from. You can’t find a better OL, depth included, than the Bombers came out training camp with. 

Yes but yesterday ... 3 man rush, 5 picks, constant pressure, sacks = bad OL play

[Floyd]

3 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Who do you think pays coordinators more?  I mean Sask has a staff of 20 of Jones' Tennessee buddies and some CFL vets he worked with like McAdoo, but who is getting paid more?

I don't know - its an honest question...  they probably aren't low paid coordinators - Hall would have surfaced on another team if we didn't sign him, he's another Stubler...

I'm just bummed out about keeping Hall for another season and passing on Thorpe or Nelson...  

[Floyd]

Just now, J5V said:

Yes but yesterday ... 3 man rush, 5 picks, constant pressure, sacks = bad OL play

Neufeld at RT.... nuff said.

[DR. CFL]

We can only hope that if LaPo gets gunned somebody is stupid to hire him be it as a OC or even better as HC

[B-F-F-C]

1 hour ago, Floyd said:

I know Osh will take the fall... but do we have Richie Hall and Lapo because Miller will not pay for a better coordinator?

Lapo seems like a high-priced coordinator but he was out of football for a few years... so who knows...

 

I thought I heard that Lapo was one of the highest paid OC’s in the league.

[trueBlue83]

1 hour ago, Floyd said:

I don't know - its an honest question...  they probably aren't low paid coordinators - Hall would have surfaced on another team if we didn't sign him, he's another Stubler...

I'm just bummed out about keeping Hall for another season and passing on Thorpe or Nelson...  

was Nelson available??  if we missed that boat on him, that's an epic failure on Walters not pushing O'Shea to move on

[17to85]

2 hours ago, B-F-F-C said:

I thought I heard that Lapo was one of the highest paid OC’s in the league.

Yeah I think he is and I for one was against that move when it first happened. Lapo has been a loser since day one.