So can we start talking about firing MOS yet?

[blueandgoldguy]

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

O'Shea is four games below .500 into his fifth season as HC. That is mediocre.  O'Shea coaches mediocre so his team is mediocre. Most head coaches with a record like that don't get 6 seasons & yet Walters will probably bring him back. With Miller's blessing. (Don't have to pay him his final season to not coach). 

I don't think a coach in the history of the CFL has lasted more then 4 seasons without at least one playoff victory.  We are in year 5 of the O'Shea regime.  If the Bombers make the playoffs, and lose in the first round, he should be fired regardless of how well the Bombers play.  The organization will have showed more patience than any other CFl franchise under similar circumstances.

[BBRT]

5 minutes ago, White Out said:

I think some people aren't reading the question. Should MOS be back NEXT year.

My response is NO! he should not be back next year - along with Richie Hall. Long enough with little results. Got to be someone out there that understands how to build a winner.

[Blueandgold]

I would be hesitant to blow up the ship. The last thing we want is return to the dark ages of 2009-2015. 

[White Out]

13 minutes ago, Blueandgold said:

I would be hesitant to blow up the ship. The last thing we want is return to the dark ages of 2009-2015. 

Didn't we have a Grey Cup appearance in 2007* and 2011?

We haven't won a playoff game under the illustrious leadership of Michael O'Shea. Quite an interesting comparison.

Edited September 9, 2018 by White Out

[Goalie]

I think 1 of Lapo or Hall go this week.. I think the other goes in the off season. 

Im betting Lapo goes 1st.. He has 2.. The O is a huge problem. 

[Goalie]

You fire the head coach when he loses the room. MOS has not lost the room so therefore you fire the 2 average coordinators

[17to85]

No one is getting fired until seasons end, and it will be a coordinator, maybe 2. I have said for a while that I think this is Halls final year regardless but man lapo needs to be fired first. Hopefully they turf him. Not only is he offensive coordinator but also receivers coach, which just happens to be the biggest problem area on the team. 

[SpeedFlex27]

35 minutes ago, Goalie said:

You fire the head coach when he loses the room. MOS has not lost the room so therefore you fire the 2 average coordinators

If they try to sell MOS as Head Coach next year to the fanbase if the losing continues there'll be a severe negative reaction.  I can't see Wade Miller being onboard with that. His job is to sell tickets. Not to have fans cancel them. And rest assured, fans will cancel their season tickets. 

[17to85]

3 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

If they try to sell MOS as Head Coach next year to the fanbase if the losing continues there'll be a severe negative reaction.  I can't see Wade Miller being onboard with that. His job is to sell tickets. Not to have fans cancel them. And rest assured, fans will cancel their season tickets. 

Fans will cancel regardless. There are a fickle bunch in Winnipeg especially with the jets stealing so many sporting entertainment dollars.

[SpeedFlex27]

2 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Fans will cancel regardless. There are a fickle bunch in Winnipeg especially with the jets stealing so many sporting entertainment dollars.

More than just a few fickle fans. A lot of disgruntled fans, I daresay. 

[pigseye]

MOS needs to go at the end of the year, one year left on his contract or not. He's had plenty of time to win a playoff game and hasn't. Jones is now ahead of him in that department. 

[SpeedFlex27]

Yeah, not saying he should be fired now. But to be decided how the rest of the season plays out. 

[brett_c_b]

24 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

If they try to sell MOS as Head Coach next year to the fanbase if the losing continues there'll be a severe negative reaction.  I can't see Wade Miller being onboard with that. His job is to sell tickets. Not to have fans cancel them. And rest assured, fans will cancel their season tickets. 

I've never understood this logic. I won't dispute that who the coaches are may matter to some of the more hardcore fans (who will likely continue to ***** but still go to games). For the casual fan I don't necessarily agree that it matters. 

I didn't grow up a football fan, there were no options to play football in the small town I grew up in.  I became a fan because of Milt Stegall, Charles Roberts, Doug Brown. Even a guy like Jamie Stoddard had a bigger impact on me than Dave Ritchie.  

In the years since I've been on the fire Paul Lapolice bandwagon (on that bandwagon for the 3rd time).  I've never considered not watching a game because Lapolice sucks at his job, although I have turned a few off early in frustration at the playcalling.  I like Mike O'Shea, while also thinking he has made some pretty bad decisions.

I've watched the Bombers play in Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg and Ottawa.  I wondered if traveling to those games was worth it sometimes when key players have been hurt and not playing. I never wondered if it was worth it because of who the coach was.

I could be wrong, but I don't foresee a severe negative or positive reaction in regards to ticket sales because of who the head coach is. The win/loss record perhaps, but not who the coach is. 

 

If O'shea wants to bring both coordinators back next season, then I'll light my pitchfork and march with everyone else. If he's going to switch up the coordinators, I'd gamble another season on him. But regardless I'll be watching the games.

[SpeedFlex27]

You don't? Well, if you don't know that a regime change sells hope & optimism to fans, then okay. By sticking with the same guy for 6 years with no changes isn't a big deal? A majority of fans would disagree with you. Look at the gnashing of teeth over Hall & LaPolice. They're coordinators. Not the Head Coach. 

[Floyd]

3 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

You don't? Well, if you don't know that a regime change sells hope & optimism to fans, then okay. By sticking with the same guy for 6 years with no changes isn't a big deal? A majority of fans would disagree with you. Look at the gnashing of teeth over Hall & LaPolice. They're coordinators. Not the Head Coach. 

Trouble is that Lapo was essentially here to take over from Osh if it came to that...  beyond him, there's almost no one who can readily step in for HC or the coordinators...

Jordan Younger and Buck...??  If we lose to Montreal, I could see that.

[DR. CFL]

7 minutes ago, Floyd said:

Trouble is that Lapo was essentially here to take over from Osh if it came to that...  beyond him, there's almost no one who can readily step in for HC or the coordinators...

Jordan Younger and Buck...??  If we lose to Montreal, I could see that.

There is the issue.....you can’t get rid of a player or coach if there is no one in place to replace them.  Heads can’t roll without another neck ready to wear the noose.

[Tracker]

5 hours ago, TheSource said:

He'd be fine in a different organization if Walters was a different type of GM.

Walters and Oshea are a bad combination because OShea is too much of a nice guy and Walters is far too passive.

If OShea had someone riding him and forcing him to make the tough decisions (kind of like good cop/bad cop) I think he'd be a better coach. 

Do you not think that if, after five years, a head coach has to be spoon-fed on decisions, that means he is not fit to be a head coach? Friends of mine who have been season ticket holders for 20+ years have told me that they will not attend any more games this year after Saturday's debacle. They are knowledgeable and have all the Bomber regalia but they have had enough and will not renew unless there are major changes.

[Tracker]

Sorry duplicate post

Edited September 9, 2018 by Tracker

[TheSource]

26 minutes ago, Tracker said:

Do you not think that if, after five years, a head coach has to be spoon-fed on decisions, that means he is not fit to be a head coach? Friends of mine who have been season ticket holders for 20+ years have told me that they will not attend any more games this year after Saturday's debacle. They are knowledgeable and have all the Bomber regalia but they have had enough and will not renew unless there are major changes.

 

You have a good point.

At some point my argument "supporting" him is academic because he has used up what good will there was that existed.

You can't turn the clock back and its probably best that he does not continue here. Going elsewhere, with the head coach experience he now has, spoon feeding would probably be inappropriate now. That said, if he was taken under the wing of a stronger GM 5 years ago, things would have probably turned out different. 

[blueandgoldguy]

IF the Bombers miss the playoffs or are one and done, O'shea will be fired and Lapolice will be promoted to head coach to right a wrong from 2012.

[17to85]

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

You don't? Well, if you don't know that a regime change sells hope & optimism to fans, then okay. By sticking with the same guy for 6 years with no changes isn't a big deal? A majority of fans would disagree with you. Look at the gnashing of teeth over Hall & LaPolice. They're coordinators. Not the Head Coach. 

This is Winnipeg, regime changes just mean further pain and suffering. I mean we all thought it would get better firing tired old Dave Ritchie and his outdated thinking, or mediocre Doug Berry and his average results, but surely going from Lapo to hot shot coordinator Tim Burke would fix everything! 

So forgive me if I don't buy into this crap that it's going to get better firing a coach or GM. We've been doing that for years and it's not gotten us a Grey Cup. This regime is the closest thing to consistency we've had in almost 2 decades. I am willing to give Walters and O'Shea more time to fix this. 

 

[Guest J5V]

14 minutes ago, blueandgoldguy said:

IF the Bombers miss the playoffs or are one and done, O'shea will be fired and Lapolice will be promoted to head coach to right a wrong from 2012.

Barf!

[Floyd]

5 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

This is Winnipeg, regime changes just mean further pain and suffering. I mean we all thought it would get better firing tired old Dave Ritchie and his outdated thinking, or mediocre Doug Berry and his average results, but surely going from Lapo to hot shot coordinator Tim Burke would fix everything! 

So forgive me if I don't buy into this crap that it's going to get better firing a coach or GM. We've been doing that for years and it's not gotten us a Grey Cup. This regime is the closest thing to consistency we've had in almost 2 decades. I am willing to give Walters and O'Shea more time to fix this. 

 

I don't remember ANYONE other than Lyle Bauer who wanted Dave Ritchie fired...

Lots of people were after Doug Berry and Kevin Glenn... for sure

I do remember all the hype about Tim Burke coming in to lead us to the defensive glory days 

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, 17to85 said:

This is Winnipeg, regime changes just mean further pain and suffering. I mean we all thought it would get better firing tired old Dave Ritchie and his outdated thinking, or mediocre Doug Berry and his average results, but surely going from Lapo to hot shot coordinator Tim Burke would fix everything! 

So forgive me if I don't buy into this crap that it's going to get better firing a coach or GM. We've been doing that for years and it's not gotten us a Grey Cup. This regime is the closest thing to consistency we've had in almost 2 decades. I am willing to give Walters and O'Shea more time to fix this. 

 

Speak for yourself. Dave Richie had overstayed his welcome and had become very reluctant to part with his favourite players, but I did not like Doug Berry's firing at all. That said, I was ok with the firing of every coach since then, and was leery about O'Shea.

[17to85]

3 minutes ago, Floyd said:

I don't remember ANYONE other than Lyle Bauer who wanted Dave Ritchie fired...

I know, least of all me, but I threw it in there for effect. 

Grass isn't always greener and too often this team has cleaned house at the first sign of adversity from a coach that has started to turn things around, and it's always ended badly.