So can we start talking about firing MOS yet?

[Floyd]

Just now, 17to85 said:

I know, least of all me, but I threw it in there for effect. 

Grass isn't always greener and too often this team has cleaned house at the first sign of adversity from a coach that has started to turn things around, and it's always ended badly. 

Everyone I knew was mortified when he was canned...  he'd brought us back from the scrap heap and then Bauer treated him like crap.

Ritchie was too loyal to Khari that season but with very very good reason...  everyone was hoping he'd recover from the injury.  He didn't.

Maybe there's a similar thing with Osh and Nichols but Nichols has done far less than Jones...

[Floyd]

I'm actually worried with the coming bye week that we'll pull another 'Doug Berry'...

Team was flailing in early 2008... so Doug Berry asks Taman to 'remake' the team - with Joe Smith/Fred Reid thunder n lightning...

The team has a winning run in the second half... so of course Bauer rewards everyone by cleaning house...  then Kelly cuts Joe Smith - back to square one (actually square minus 10... but whatevs)

 

 

[NorthernSkunk]

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

You don't? Well, if you don't know that a regime change sells hope & optimism to fans, then okay. By sticking with the same guy for 6 years with no changes isn't a big deal? A majority of fans would disagree with you. Look at the gnashing of teeth over Hall & LaPolice. They're coordinators. Not the Head Coach. 

For myself it is a lot the QB situation that gets me excited and wanting to travel to a game to see the Bombers play....I am a fan much like brett c b........discussing going to the Montreal game now

 

[TheSource]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

This is Winnipeg, regime changes just mean further pain and suffering. I mean we all thought it would get better firing tired old Dave Ritchie and his outdated thinking, or mediocre Doug Berry and his average results, but surely going from Lapo to hot shot coordinator Tim Burke would fix everything! 

So forgive me if I don't buy into this crap that it's going to get better firing a coach or GM. We've been doing that for years and it's not gotten us a Grey Cup. This regime is the closest thing to consistency we've had in almost 2 decades. I am willing to give Walters and O'Shea more time to fix this. 

 

I hear what you are saying, and there is truth in it. I have followed this team for all of those years, and in hindsight, some of that house cleaning was ill-advised.

That said, there has to be constant, consistent, change on a club to get better. It is called continuous improvement and the reason why Bombers are where they are this year is because they sat back and did less positive moves than all their competition. And as the season goes on, all of their competition continue to make changes to improve, and Bombers sit back and do not even consider bringing anyone in in terms of players, coaches, or consultants to try and improve.

The organization has demonstrated that from top to bottom that they are highly resistant to any form of change, and that my friend, is a recipe for disaster in any organization these days.

This thread is about house cleaning. Why is that necessary? Because if no one in the org makes changes when they show long patterns of losing trends and/or lack of growth, then you cannot expect to get different results, and although it is a large risk, it becomes necessary to replace all the components that are resistant to changes necessary for improvement. Compared to the current competition in the league the present management and coaching personnel have demonstrated the following:

1) Their rebuild period (now 5 years and counting) is excessively long compared to every other team that has entered rebuild in the last 10 years. This creates a logistical problem because the rebuild duration threatens to exceed the longevity of core players, and with shorter contracts and more free agent movement, it is harder to keep a competitive core together for that time. (Say goodbye to key players like Goosen and Chung soon)

2) The drop off in performance this year is deeper than any drop off suffered by any other CFL team in the past 10 year period (going from 12-6 to a projected 5-13 in a single season)

3) All official communications coming from the org have indicated that no changes are planned in the short term or long term, despite their knowledge of the current performance trends

4) This year was portrayed by the team as a year to be making a GC run, and it turns out that they may very well miss the playoffs. This demonstrates that the management and coaching personnel do not have a good understanding of performance forecasting or evaluation of their personnel selections, and more importantly, that they consistently do not understand what it takes to make a team successful on the field in the current competitive CFL. Since this understanding is a prerequisite to making successful changes for improvement, going forward, why would you continue to support management and coaching that does not understand these key concepts?

5) Including this year, this team will have missed the playoffs more than any other CFL team in the past 5 year interval.

 

[17to85]

I call bullshit on the no change, they have changed a lot of the roster over the past few years. 

Some of you are creating this false narrative that O'Shea is stubborn and won't change when all the evidence points otherwise. He doesn't change quickly but he isn't as pig headed as many here seem to think. 

 

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

This is Winnipeg, regime changes just mean further pain and suffering. I mean we all thought it would get better firing tired old Dave Ritchie and his outdated thinking, or mediocre Doug Berry and his average results, but surely going from Lapo to hot shot coordinator Tim Burke would fix everything! 

So forgive me if I don't buy into this crap that it's going to get better firing a coach or GM. We've been doing that for years and it's not gotten us a Grey Cup. This regime is the closest thing to consistency we've had in almost 2 decades. I am willing to give Walters and O'Shea more time to fix this. 

 

OMG. Are you actually bringing this argument back from 2015??? So, your solution is to sit & do nothing because we'll have to start over & it will be painful because we'll just lose?  Meanwhile ignoring the fact that the status quo is already painful because we're already losing. Your stability argument may have had some merit 3 years ago but it means nothing now after nearly 6 seasons. So, we haven't been doing it for years. It's been years since we did it. 

[17to85]

1 minute ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

OMG. Are you actually bringing this argument back from 2015??? So, your solution is to sit & do nothing because we'll have to start over & it will be painful because we'll just lose?  Meanwhile ignoring the fact that the status quo is already painful because we're already losing. Your stability argument may have had some merit 3 years ago but it means nothing now after nearly 6 seasons. So, we haven't been doing it for years. It's been years since we did it. 

I am saying be patient. These guys got us from **** to a lot of wins the past few years, why throw em all out on their asses at the very first sign of adversity? Let em rebound from this, they've earned that chance. 

 

But no, some of you are just so angry it's hard to believe you are functioning adults. Lashing out demanding people answer for these losses right now! I'm pissed off and I want blood! rabble rabble rabble. 

[SpeedFlex27]

Just now, 17to85 said:

I am saying be patient. These guys got us from **** to a lot of wins the past few years, why throw em all out on their asses at the very first sign of adversity? Let em rebound from this, they've earned that chance. 

 

But no, some of you are just so angry it's hard to believe you are functioning adults. Lashing out demanding people answer for these losses right now! I'm pissed off and I want blood! rabble rabble rabble. 

If things don't get turned around by season's end then O'Shea has to go. He has 6 games to do it. 

[DR. CFL]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

I know, least of all me, but I threw it in there for effect. 

Grass isn't always greener and too often this team has cleaned house at the first sign of adversity from a coach that has started to turn things around, and it's always ended badly. 

[DR. CFL]

Not making any changes and hoping this team rebounds is not a plan.....if anything it is an indicator that you are afraid to make another mistake......not a good philosophy in sport or business.  Remaining status quo only works when there is truly positive results. Ironically there will be those in Calgary that will want change if the Stamps don’t win the a Cup this year.....how funny is that. I’d trade our crew.....staff and players for theirs in a minute.  Hate Sask and Hamilton all you want but they made changes and have demonstrated improvement in a lot less time. Heaven forbid if that gong show in Montreal does better than Winnipeg. Some who don’t advocate changes are the same people who want to change QBs and tie the future of this team on a rookie....how ironic is that?

[TheSource]

15 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

I call bullshit on the no change, they have changed a lot of the roster over the past few years. 

Some of you are creating this false narrative that O'Shea is stubborn and won't change when all the evidence points otherwise. He doesn't change quickly but he isn't as pig headed as many here seem to think. 

 

Sure, they made changes.

But I'm talking about positive changes. You know, the kind that lead to improvements?

Salary dumps and not resigning key free agents do not count as positive changes - those things are just the easy way out for someone who is a weak GM.

[DR. CFL]

Every team in this league makes changes and dumps players because of the Salary Cap.....this league and every other league. Welcome to the world of attempting to create parity amongst the teams.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

29 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

If things don't get turned around by season's end then O'Shea has to go. He has 6 games to do it. 

Nah, regardless of what happens these next few games ( barring INCREDIBLE incompetence- not the itchy triggerfinger of impatient fans) I think Osh needs another year and see who he brings in to replace Hall and possibly Lapo. 

Osh has earned a tonne of goodwill and should get a chance to fix it with new coaches. 

[M.Silverback]

O’Shea’s 5 year record is 40 - 44. Realistically the Bombers will be lucky to win 3 of the last 6. I don’t think a five year record of 43 - 47 with no playoff wins is good enough to keep your job. Whether players love you or not. The personnel here is flawed but our roster isn’t as bad as our record (exception being 2018 Nichols, who I feel for, but man he is crapping the bed).  He and his staff will be fired. Walters already has a double secret list of coaches he’s considering 

[White Out]

4 minutes ago, M.Silverback said:

O’Shea’s 5 year record is 40 - 44. Realistically the Bombers will be lucky to win 3 of the last 6. I don’t think a five year record of 43 - 47 with no playoff wins is good enough to keep your job. Whether players love you or not. The personnel here is flawed but our roster isn’t as bad as our record (exception being 2018 Nichols, who I feel for, but man he is crapping the bed).  He and his staff will be fired. Walters already has a double secret list of coaches he’s considering 

But

 

But... But... Patience 

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, 17to85 said:

I am saying be patient. These guys got us from **** to a lot of wins the past few years, why throw em all out on their asses at the very first sign of adversity? Let em rebound from this, they've earned that chance.  But no, some of you are just so angry it's hard to believe you are functioning adults. Lashing out demanding people answer for these losses right now! I'm pissed off and I want blood! rabble rabble rabble. 

FIRST SIGN OF ADVERSITY???? Which team are you watching?

[Colin Unger]

New GM - John Murphy

Head coach - Devon Claybrooks

Starting QB - Chris Streveler

[M.Silverback]

2 hours ago, 17to85 said:

 

So forgive me if I don't buy into this crap that it's going to get better firing a coach or GM. We've been doing that for years and it's not gotten us a Grey Cup. This regime is the closest thing to consistency we've had in almost 2 decades. I am willing to give Walters and O'Shea more time to fix this. 

 

Philosophically I agree that consistency in an organization is a better way to go. Organizations that constantly change regimes typically flounder. But, I also think you have to earn that right with success. If the San Antonio Spurs have a losing record this year, Pop and Buford have earned some time to fix it because they’ve succeeded big time in the past. A sub 500 record and no playoff wins in 5 seasons (which in CFL years is like 10), earns you nothing. And I think it only buys Walters one more after O’Shea with a new coach

[M.Silverback]

5 minutes ago, Colin Unger said:

New GM - John Murphy

Head coach - Devon Claybrooks

Starting QB - Chris Streveler

I’d also be good with Orlando Steinhauer

[White Out]

DeVone Claybrooks already has a far better resume as a coach than MOS did when we hired him. 

Edited September 10, 2018 by White Out

[17to85]

30 minutes ago, Colin Unger said:

New GM - John Murphy

Dear god no.

You see how he works with Chris Jones as his assistant? You see how he was with Mike Kelly? 

You think it's a coincidence that both those guys treat draft picks with disdain and sign a bunch of thugs and criminals? 

Pretty clear that Calgary was all Hufnagel. Also pretty telling that nobody has given Murphy the keys to a franchise. 

[Blueandgold]

If O’Shea is gone I would love to see Mike Reilly come back here. I know he’s set to coach in the alliance, but I think we would have a good chance at getting him back. 

[Colin Unger]

40 minutes ago, M.Silverback said:

I’d also be good with Orlando Steinhauer

But he does have a cool sideways ball cap

[Colin Unger]

15 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Dear god no.

You see how he works with Chris Jones as his assistant? You see how he was with Mike Kelly? 

You think it's a coincidence that both those guys treat draft picks with disdain and sign a bunch of thugs and criminals? 

Pretty clear that Calgary was all Hufnagel. Also pretty telling that nobody has given Murphy the keys to a franchise. 

They find a lot more talent than we do.

[LeBird]

On 2018-09-08 at 7:36 PM, blueingreenland said:

If he's low football IQ, what does that say about you? He's forgotten more about football then you'll ever know.

Having said that I'm not sure he should be back here. 

I Don't think MOS has a low football IQ. I think he carries his loyalty to the players and assistants too far and he is such a boneheaded man that it might be his downfall.  He's the one who should tell LaPo and/or Hall to change their game plan and make sure they understand exactly what he means. From the first to the last play in the second half it was like it came from a screen play script that had to be followed to the letter.  

He might be a good coach but his MO right now might buy him  tickets  to watch the game.