So can we start talking about firing MOS yet?

[Guest J5V]

MOS values loyalty to his veteran players like Ryan Lankford and Matt Nichols. When Matt first came here, like Drew Willy before him, he had good chemistry with the players in the offence and they were successful. For the second half of last year and for most of this year, for whatever reason, that chemistry has vanished. Yet start after start MOS has rolled Nichols out there and he has failed to regain that chemistry and the team has regressed as the losses have mounted. Other players like Petermann, Flanders, Streveler, Wolitarsky, Tompkins, Washington, etc., have shown good chemistry when given a chance, yet for the most part, have been glued to the bench.

We have lost four in a row and now sit at 5-7 with 6 games remaining.

Our chances of winning a championship hinge on one guy ... Mike O'Shea. He's the guy that is responsible for the identity of this team and for seeing to it that there is good chemistry between the players. If this team had a strong identity and good chemistry between the players I'd have hope of them turning it around even if they were on a four game slide, but that is not the case. 

For the good of this team, MOS needs to play the players that give us the best chance to win. Some may argue as to what that is but I believe it's the players with the best chemistry, whether they be veterans or rookies, loyalty be damned.

Edited September 9, 2018 by J5V
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[USABomberfan]

None of the options in the poll quite fit what I'm thinking right now.

As I said before, if we miss the playoffs I'd be all for canning him.

Realistically, I probably don't see that happening, BUT .... Even if he doesn't get fired O'Shea should get no extension on his contract period at the end of this season, not even for one year.  Bring him into 2019 like we did in 2016 on a very short rope and if the team doesn't get winning immediately, I'd say he's gone.  No way are the results we're seeing with the talent we have acceptable.

[DR. CFL]

There are a couple of concerns.....does limping into the playoffs warrant the survival of this crew? Believing that or hoping that next year does not bring more of the same? The bringing any combination of this crew back on a short leash only has any merit if there is a viable heir apparent on the staff should the ship falter again.....surely LaPo isn’t the answer.  There is no simple solution to this situation and hope is not a plan in business or in sport.

[Dr Zaius]

I think Walters and O'sheas fates are tied together and if one gets fired, the whole house gets cleaned.

O'shea is very responsible for turning this franchise around and attracting FA talent that want to play for him.

I don't know if he gets enough credit for the team-building aspect as he should.

That being said I don't know if he can push us over the top for a championship.

[DR. CFL]

Just now, Dr Zaius said:

I think Walters and O'sheas fates are tied together and if one gets fired, the whole house gets cleaned.

O'shea is very responsible for turning this franchise around and attracting FA talent that want to play for him.

I don't know if he gets enough credit for the team-building aspect as he should.

That being said I don't know if he can push us over the top for a championship.

MOS may very well be someone that his players will run into a wall for....an admirable quality but any HC can only be successful  if he has a great staff behind him....OC..DC....and the entire group. I am not convinced that is the case here. Sadly someone may need to fall on the sword and MOS becomes the most likely victim.

[Tracker]

3 hours ago, DR. CFL said:

MOS may very well be someone that his players will run into a wall for....an admirable quality but any HC can only be successful  if he has a great staff behind him....OC..DC....and the entire group. I am not convinced that is the case here. Sadly someone may need to fall on the sword and MOS becomes the most likely victim.

You are being too kind to O'Shea. He has more than enough time to grow into the position of head coach, but still shows the same rigidity, stubbornness and misplaced loyalty to "his" kind of players that he did from the start. It would be foolish for any coach to follow the whims of fans but when there is pretty much unanimous agreement on a player or coach that they are just not working out, it takes a fool to disregard the obvious. Good coaches are supposed to see trends before they become festering sores and intervene as necessary. From the GM's point of view, substandard players need to be replaced SAP as soon as the coaches identify them.

[Dragon37]

I doubt this regime will do anything about the coaching. Now or after they lose the next 7 games. They are all as stubborn as MOS. 

[Dragon37]

4 hours ago, Dr Zaius said:

I think Walters and O'sheas fates are tied together and if one gets fired, the whole house gets cleaned.

O'shea is very responsible for turning this franchise around and attracting FA talent that want to play for him.

I don't know if he gets enough credit for the team-building aspect as he should.

That being said I don't know if he can push us over the top for a championship.

The problem is he is the coach, the boss, not their friend. He doesn't put the fear in them that is needed. I'm not saying he needs to be a tyrant but winning is all that matters and not the feelings of the players. So far, while more players have been attracted here MOS has not turned this team around. He slowly improved the record but that hasn't brought the team any post season achievements whatsoever. So really he has been no better than previous coaches brought through. 

[deepsixemtoboyd]

5 hours ago, DR. CFL said:

MOS may very well be someone that his players will run into a wall for....an admirable quality but any HC can only be successful  if he has a great staff behind him....OC..DC....and the entire group. I am not convinced that is the case here. Sadly someone may need to fall on the sword and MOS becomes the most likely victim.

Victim how?  Isn’t he the one who hired and has continued to stubbornly retain all of his subordinates?  Hint: this is a rhetorical question. If he is a victim, he has been victimized by his own hand. 

[deepsixemtoboyd]

3 hours ago, Tracker said:

You are being too kind to O'Shea...It would be foolish for any coach to follow the whims of fans but when there is pretty much unanimous agreement on a player or coach that they are just not working out, it takes a fool to disregard the obvious. Good coaches are supposed to see trends before they become festering sores and intervene as necessary. 

 This absolutely nails it. It was obvious after the 2016 season that the offense had radically improved, that Nichols was in a zone as was Harris, but that neither of these players were getting any younger and thus the window was closing… It was equally clear that the defense was ****.

MOS, however, true to form went all stubborn, retaining Hall not only for 2017 - which was already absolutely inexcusable  – but then actually doubling down on his stupidity by retaining him again this year. The defense, while modestly improved this year, continues to be far, far, so far from a championship calibre side.

 Case in point? They were pretty good yesterday against a very mediocre Saskatchewan offense BUT... when they absolutely had to make stops, Mason ran all over them in the second half.

I was there… I know. I saw it with my own eyes. 

The fact that Richie Hall is still here 2 seasons beyond when he should have been and that this madness continues was 100% completely avoidable and is, quite frankly, disgusting. Now the window on Nichols seems to be closing and we have a total train wreck as a result… 

All of this is 100% on MOS.

[JuranBoldenRules]

1 minute ago, deepsixemtoboyd said:

 This absolutely nails it. It was obvious after the 2016 season that the offense had radically improved, that Nichols was in a zone as was Harris, but that neither of these players were getting any younger and thus the window was closing… It was equally clear that the defense was ****.

MOS, however, true to form went all stubborn, retaining Hall not only for 2017 - which was already absolutely inexcusable  – but then actually doubling down on his stupidity by retaining him again this year. The defense, while modestly improved this year, continues to be far, far, so far from a championship calibre side.

 Case in point? They were pretty good yesterday against a very mediocre Saskatchewan offense BUT... when they absolutely had to make stops, Mason ran all over them in the second half.

I was there… I know. I saw it with my own eyes. 

The fact that Richie Hall is still here 2 seasons beyond when he should have been and that this madness continues was 100% completely avoidable and is, quite frankly, disgusting. Now the window on Nichols seems to be closing and we have a total train wreck as a result… 

All of this is 100% on MOS.

And yet they didn't give up a TD that entire game and gave the offense two drives in the final two minutes.  Your expectations might be a bit out of whack or maybe you're so biased against Hall you can't give a fair evaluation.

[SpeedFlex27]

O'Shea is four games below .500 into his fifth season as HC. That is mediocre.  O'Shea coaches mediocre so his team is mediocre. Most head coaches with a record like that don't get 6 seasons & yet Walters will probably bring him back. With Miller's blessing. (Don't have to pay him his final season to not coach). 

[DR. CFL]

27 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

O'Shea is four games below .500 into his fifth season as HC. That is mediocre.  O'Shea coaches mediocre so his team is mediocre. Most head coaches with a record like that don't get 6 seasons & yet Walters will probably bring him back. With Miller's blessing. (Don't have to pay him his final season to not coach). 

I guess the “patience mantra” ship has finally sailed.....amen to that...it took long enough.....too long if you ask me. I am now curious as to how deep the knive will cut.....because sure as shooting the finger pointing and blame game is going to start. It still comes down to who hired who...that then hired who....down the line.

[B-F-F-C]

I’d love to hear Booch’s opinion on what he prefers or what type of coach he feels is more effective. The hard ass coach or the mike O’Shea type?

[DR. CFL]

I’m not concerned about the so called type of coach...hire someone who is well enough connected to then hire a good qualified staff 

[TheSource]

7 minutes ago, DR. CFL said:

I guess the “patience mantra” ship has finally sailed.....amen to that...it took long enough.....too long if you ask me. I am now curious as to how deep the knive will cut.....because sure as shooting the finger pointing and blame game is going to start. It still comes down to who hired who...that then hired who....down the line.

 

It's going to take quite a bit more losing before the BOD starts to find the political taste of the situation unpalatable. Then they will be forced to reluctantly make the change from Miller on down, which will certainly cost them $$$ that they would otherwise want to bank in the city coffers. I think that decision is probably 2 more years out. Until then, I don't see any significant changes being made at all - either with onfield personnel, coaches, management, or scouting. This org is all-in on mediocrity.

[do or die]

In this kind of scenario.....others will walk the plant before MOS.

[Stickem]

IF this season ends in a gas soaked dumpster with a tire fire adjacent to it, I don't see how bringing back O'Shea would be an option....Someone suggested bringing him back next year, even if we end up in that dumpster, to try his hand at fixing things and turning this club around….Sorry ...wrong headed....First of all after 5 years and we finish out of the post season....or even if we're a one and done...what's going to change....All we'll get is the same likable guy the players adore with the same mediocre results...Secondly if we did bring him back after another unsuccessful year AND he is the same O'Shea...how do you replace him with any credibility at that juncture...All of the good avenues will have been closed and we'd be stuck in ANOTHER losing year...No, not acceptable..it has to end in a clean break at the end of this year IF everything has gone south...Start next year with a clean slate and a clean house...

[B-F-F-C]

5 minutes ago, DR. CFL said:

I’m not concerned about the so called type of coach...hire someone who is well enough connected to then hire a good qualified staff 

You may not but many hear think that O’Shea isn’t tough enough on his players.  

[TheSource]

7 minutes ago, B-F-F-C said:

You may not but many hear think that O’Shea isn’t tough enough on his players.  

He'd be fine in a different organization if Walters was a different type of GM.

Walters and Oshea are a bad combination because OShea is too much of a nice guy and Walters is far too passive.

If OShea had someone riding him and forcing him to make the tough decisions (kind of like good cop/bad cop) I think he'd be a better coach. 

[blueingreenland]

Guys if the Bombers fail to make the playoffs the coaching staff is gonzo. Bank on it. The real question is what happens if we make the playoffs - crossover is the only realistic possibility at this point...or even win a playoff game. Me thinks anything short of a Grey Cup appearance (going through the East) will result in a cleaning of the slate.

[TheSource]

39 minutes ago, do or die said:

In this kind of scenario.....others will walk the plant before MOS.

Could be the case, and I'm actually fine with that.

MOS has been part of the problem, but not the biggest part in my way of looking at the situation.

[wbbfan]

Everyone is replaceable. One day we die/retire/move on and the world keeps turning. That said you dont pull the pin on a coach or player without something better in the wings unless they become a mike kelly level disaster. 

We can always talk about it, but as a franchise, nothing will be done this season. Mos wont become a disaster like that, and we cant get anything better right now anyway. In the offseason we could look at someone like claybrooks, but that is a big step back with a first time HC. 

What we could look at but is still a low percentage chance is changing a CO. Both plop and hall have performed poor enough at times to warrant consideration. Imo while plop tends to out-think himself too often, he is a fantastic teacher and excellent at coaching players. Not just the system. Hall used to adjust well in game but hasnt been doing that this year. And the overall team tackling is poor. See too many bad angles, arm tackles and whiffed hits. When one guy does it, its a player problem. When tons of players over extended time do it, especially ones who normally wouldnt, its a coaching problem. 

 

[do or die]

If we didn't fire Burke during the season.....we sure as hell are not firing MOS.

[White Out]

I think some people aren't reading the question. Should MOS be back NEXT year.