So can we start talking about firing MOS yet?

[JuranBoldenRules]

24 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Dear god no.

You see how he works with Chris Jones as his assistant? You see how he was with Mike Kelly? 

You think it's a coincidence that both those guys treat draft picks with disdain and sign a bunch of thugs and criminals? 

Pretty clear that Calgary was all Hufnagel. Also pretty telling that nobody has given Murphy the keys to a franchise. 

Hufnagel Jr is the guy everyone is after but thought is that Calgary’s GM job is already his when dad retires.

[Guest J5V]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

I call bullshit on the no change, they have changed a lot of the roster over the past few years. 

Some of you are creating this false narrative that O'Shea is stubborn and won't change when all the evidence points otherwise. He doesn't change quickly but he isn't as pig headed as many here seem to think. 

Not just change, but change for improvement. Since Nic Moore and Terrence Edwards where are the great receivers? What about the other areas of obvious improvement? Where's the replacement for Wild and Leggett when they went down? Yes we got Bighill for Hurl but what about the rest of the team? We are at a net loss in talent level. That doesn't even get into scouting and coaching. It has to be a total commitment on all levels. 

[17to85]

15 minutes ago, J5V said:

Not just change, but change for improvement. Since Nic Moore and Terrence Edwards where are the great receivers? What about the other areas of obvious improvement? Where's the replacement for Wild and Leggett when they went down? Yes we got Bighill for Hurl but what about the rest of the team? We are at a net loss in talent level. That doesn't even get into scouting and coaching. It has to be a total commitment on all levels. 

Well the receivers I agree, Walters needs to up his game there, but the backup for Leggett was Fenner, not a bad option, though he got hurt in the game too right? Based on the one game Gaitor did fine filling in as well. Wild was replaced by Santos-Knox in the long run which worked out well. Honestly this teams depth is fine, but you can't lose multiple people at one position as any team without feeling it. 

 

The problem on this team is and always has been the coordinators, but I have faith that they will be changed this offseason. 

[Floyd]

40 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Dear god no.

Williams-Lambert, Christion Jones, Eguavon, Marshall, Elam, Moncrief...

These are good players.

[Guest J5V]

2 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Well the receivers I agree, Walters needs to up his game there, but the backup for Leggett was Fenner, not a bad option, though he got hurt in the game too right? Based on the one game Gaitor did fine filling in as well. Wild was replaced by Santos-Knox in the long run which worked out well. Honestly this teams depth is fine, but you can't lose multiple people at one position as any team without feeling it. 

The problem on this team is and always has been the coordinators, but I have faith that they will be changed this offseason. 

You and I have long agreed on Lapo. I forgot to mention Dressler too. Yes injuries have been bad but look around the league, everyone is hurting but they seem to find guys immediately. We don't. BC loses Arceneaux ... bang, sign Posey. He would have looked good in blue and gold. It's not that we don't do anything. It's that we don't do enough. There is no time when it's okay to just relax. The hunt for talent has to become a mantra like it is on other teams.

[Floyd]

A realistic new regime...?  Look at Calgary - building a long lasting culture... players staying to become coaches...

Walters - GM

Barker - AGM/US Scouting

Taman - AGM/Player Personnel

Pierce - College Scouting

Bob Dyce - HC

Condell - OC/QB

Terrence Edwards - REC

Doug Brown - OL

Nelson - DC

Charlton - LB/DL

Younger - DB

ST/Asst HC- Markus Howell

Def Asst - Leggett

[17to85]

30 minutes ago, Floyd said:

Williams-Lambert, Christion Jones, Eguavon, Marshall, Elam, Moncrief...

These are good players.

Every team has found good players, but honest question, what have the Riders accomplished? capitalizing on some stupid turnovers by the Bombers? Whoopty freakin doo. Nichols doesn't have a melt down Kyle Walters team blows that Riders team off the field on Saturday, even with the handicap Lapo put on the offense. 

 

Grass isn't always greener and Murphy has way, way too many red flags for me to give the keys to the franchise to. 

[Floyd]

23 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Every team has found good players, but honest question, what have the Riders accomplished? capitalizing on some stupid turnovers by the Bombers? Whoopty freakin doo. Nichols doesn't have a melt down Kyle Walters team blows that Riders team off the field on Saturday, even with the handicap Lapo put on the offense. 

 

Grass isn't always greener and Murphy has way, way too many red flags for me to give the keys to the franchise to. 

He's not the GM...  he's Taman to Dave Ritchie...

All I'm saying is he's found some good talent and I think without Jones, maybe he'd have a few more gems...  he's a good personnel guy

[17to85]

4 hours ago, Floyd said:

He's not the GM...  he's Taman to Dave Ritchie...

All I'm saying is he's found some good talent and I think without Jones, maybe he'd have a few more gems...  he's a good personnel guy

but the similarities between that rider team and the bomber team with Mike Kelly are so obvious and the common denominator is Murphy. 

Guy has been this supposed talent guru for a long time now and no one has given him a shot, there has to be a reason for that 

[M.O.A.B.]

5 years is a far better chance to prove their worth. Failed to show a hardware for it. So, I'm OK with a complete rebuild of the football ops.

Edited September 10, 2018 by M.O.A.B.

[sweep the leg]

8 hours ago, Floyd said:

A realistic new regime...?  Look at Calgary - building a long lasting culture... players staying to become coaches...

Walters - GM

Barker - AGM/US Scouting

Taman - AGM/Player Personnel

Pierce - College Scouting

Bob Dyce - HC

Condell - OC/QB

Terrence Edwards - REC

Doug Brown - OL

Nelson - DC

Charlton - LB/DL

Younger - DB

ST/Asst HC- Markus Howell

Def Asst - Leggett

Tom Clements - HC

Kliff Kingsbury - OC

Kerwin Bell - qb coach

Bob Wylie - OL

Greg Marshall - DL

Ike Charlton - Lb

Tim Burke - db

Jeff Reinbold - st

 

[pigseye]

Rick Campbell (GM) and let him hire everyone else. 

[Floyd]

1 hour ago, sweep the leg said:

Tom Clements - HC

Kliff Kingsbury - OC

Kerwin Bell - qb coach

Bob Wylie - OL

Greg Marshall - DL

Ike Charlton - Lb

Tim Burke - db

Jeff Reinbold - st

Someone's making a funny...!!

[Floyd]

4 hours ago, 17to85 said:

but the similarities between that rider team and the bomber team with Mike Kelly are so obvious and the common denominator is Murphy. 

Guy has been this supposed talent guru for a long time now and no one has given him a shot, there has to be a reason for that 

Could be the fact he has his own NFL scouting business too... and you're completely discounting his Calgary years out of convenience...

Anyway, same could be said for Paul Jones... he's never 'been given a shot'

 

[3rd & 1]

On 2018-09-08 at 6:38 PM, Brandon said:

Hall's scheme is what sucks... not the players.  We bring in Bighill who is absolutely amazing and we still have issues.    

For LaPo we are getting better results with a raw rookie then the veteran QB.   Running the same plays with the same players.    A noticeable difference between how the offense functions with Streveler in.   That issue is a player issue.  Even yourself you keep saying the receivers are dropping balls.   This isn't an issue with the scheme.  

You do realize that the last couple losses were not on the Bombers defence. They played incredibly well. This last game the defence held the opposition to 17 points. In fact I would take off a field goal as well as the Bombers offence gave the Riders instant field position to kick a field goal. 

These last 2 loses are on Matt Nichols. 

[captaincanuck12]

All these names are being dropped... not all ex players make good coaches.   Secondly, guys like Steinhauer have to want to come here.    Just like you have to lure players, you've got to lure coaches too.    I get that we are all frustrated with us not having a championship caliber team for that past 30 years.    It speaks volumes to the passion of this fanbase, which i am a proud member of.  The reality is you can't just expect to throw various names out and say this group of coaches will lead us to the promised land.    I can certainly appreciate the imagination that you guys have, but the reality is you have to make incremental changes.   Cleaning house has left this franchise a mess for years.   We need stability.  But I agree that we do need some new coaching. The talent on the field is being mishandled .     BUt these coaches don't jsut fall out of the sky.  You need a replacement first.   Just my .02

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, 3RD AND 1 said:

You do realize that the last couple losses were not on the Bombers defence. They played incredibly well. This last game the defence held the opposition to 17 points. In fact I would take off a field goal as well as the Bombers offence gave the Riders instant field position to kick a field goal. 

These last 2 loses are on Matt Nichols. 

The Bomber defence played well against what may be the worst offence in the CFL. They will probably play "well" against Montreal, but their true colours will not be known until we play Edmonton, Calgary or Hamilton. Then Richie Hall will know whether to polish up his resume.

[3rd & 1]

10 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Every team has found good players, but honest question, what have the Riders accomplished? capitalizing on some stupid turnovers by the Bombers? Whoopty freakin doo. Nichols doesn't have a melt down Kyle Walters team blows that Riders team off the field on Saturday, even with the handicap Lapo put on the offense. 

 

Grass isn't always greener and Murphy has way, way too many red flags for me to give the keys to the franchise to. 

That same handicapped team that were the 1st to beat, no they smoked the Stampeders. Plus they were the 1st team that beat The Lions at BC Place stadium. The Riders have one of if not the best special teams and defence in the league. The biggest issue isn’t their offence moving the ball. It’s scoring a TD in the red zone. With 2 of 3 facets at the top in the league. When they get the 3rd one in place they could be a top tier team. 

[M.Silverback]

15 minutes ago, captaincanuck12 said:

All these names are being dropped... not all ex players make good coaches.   Secondly, guys like Steinhauer have to want to come here.    Just like you have to lure players, you've got to lure coaches too.    I get that we are all frustrated with us not having a championship caliber team for that past 30 years.    It speaks volumes to the passion of this fanbase, which i am a proud member of.  The reality is you can't just expect to throw various names out and say this group of coaches will lead us to the promised land.    I can certainly appreciate the imagination that you guys have, but the reality is you have to make incremental changes.   Cleaning house has left this franchise a mess for years.   We need stability.  But I agree that we do need some new coaching. The talent on the field is being mishandled .     BUt these coaches don't jsut fall out of the sky.  You need a replacement first.   Just my .02

For sure, firing coaches is a risk. You can target replacements, but as you say, they have to want to come. That said, most assistants want to become head coaches at some point. Steinhauer seems like one who would want to, and I'm not sure June Jones is stepping aside any time soon. The other thing is sometimes you just have to take a risk and make a change when things aren't working, or you're becoming stagnant. The Toronto Raptors just did that, fired a very good coach, because they were stagnant. May work out or not, but, at least they're avoiding the definition of insanity thing - stick with the same, hope for different results. We're reaching that point with the O'Shea coaching era.

[SpeedFlex27]

12 hours ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Nah, regardless of what happens these next few games ( barring INCREDIBLE incompetence- not the itchy triggerfinger of impatient fans) I think Osh needs another year and see who he brings in to replace Hall and possibly Lapo. 

Osh has earned a tonne of goodwill and should get a chance to fix it with new coaches. 

Needs another year? Why does he need another year? We know all about Mike O'Shea & how he coaches. What is going to be different next season as compared to this one? Why is it we just throw entire seasons away giving coaches who fail more & more chances to fail all over again? Very frustrating. 

[Goalie]

8 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Needs another year? Why does he need another year? We know all about Mike O'Shea & how he coaches. What is going to be different next season as compared to this one? Why is it we just throw entire seasons away giving coaches who fail more & more chances to fail all over again? Very frustrating. 

Our biggest issue this year is Matt Nichols.. It really is the biggest problem. Hes gone from a game managing QB to throwing 5 interceptions in a half of football. The backup is a rookie. What u want MOS to do? Nobody expected Nichols to be this bad. .

Fire coaches all you want.. The cycle will repeat itself again tho because without a legit QB.. It don't matter who the coach is. 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

10 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Needs another year? Why does he need another year? We know all about Mike O'Shea & how he coaches. What is going to be different next season as compared to this one? Why is it we just throw entire seasons away giving coaches who fail more & more chances to fail all over again? Very frustrating. 

So he can get competitive coordinators in place. 

I like MOS' coaching style. I like the fact he exhusts the amount of opportunities given to those he sees promise in.  He's not a knee jerk reaction save my bacon by throwing people under the bus kinda coach.

He commits to the contracts doled out to his staff and does the best to make it work.

 

[Colin Unger]

14 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

So he can get competitive coordinators in place. 

I like MOS' coaching style. I like the fact he exhusts the amount of opportunities given to those he sees promise in.  He's not a knee jerk reaction save my bacon by throwing people under the bus kinda coach.

He commits to the contracts doled out to his staff and does the best to make it work.

 

It just seems like that’s not the winning formula in the cfl. You need to be kind of cut throat.

I wonder if Mike Riley can come in and be our June Jones?? 

[pigseye]

16 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Our biggest issue this year is Matt Nichols.. It really is the biggest problem. Hes gone from a game managing QB to throwing 5 interceptions in a half of football. The backup is a rookie. What u want MOS to do? Nobody expected Nichols to be this bad. .

Fire coaches all you want.. The cycle will repeat itself again tho because without a legit QB.. It don't matter who the coach is. 

Yes, the qb position is always the most important but you can't overlook the roster decisions and play calling either. They new the o-line was going to be an issue going into this game Neufeld should have had help out there, the entire offensive game plan should have changed to max protection, two back sets, tight ends, full backs, everything to keep the qb clean and give him time. It's not like Sasks offence was a threat to do anything, all the Bombers had to do was grind it out and protect the ball and they could have put a W in the win column. 

[SpeedFlex27]

MOS has proven one thing in 5 years. He's slow to change. Slow to adapt. Loyalty usurps performance. That's why we struggle. That's why he needs to be replaced. He won't change. So time to go.