Role of a CFL GM

[pigseye]

21 minutes ago, NorthernSkunk said:

Realistically how much more time would we give them ?....... 1 year, 2, 5 more without a cup ?

I'd give them until the end of their contracts, next year for sure for MOS and 2 more for Walters. They've put the organization on solid ground, but that may be the extent of their success, we should wait and see. 

[TBURGESS]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

And I have said that O'Shea ultimately wears the coordinators failings, but I also say that there were other factors going in and am willing to over look that and give him another chance because of the good things he does do for the team. 

Things are never as black and white as some people like to make them seem. 

That doesn't surprise me. You're willing to overlook pretty much everything that O'Shea does wrong.

Lets try this another way...

Hall is done no matter what, so we need a new DC.

GM's get to choose their HC's, so replacing Walters means replacing O'Shea unless you want to give him the GM/HC job which is ridiculous because he's a below average HC with zero GM experience. Replacing the GM equals blowing everything up, which I know you are against.

Keep Walters and O'Shea means more of the same and the same means no playoff wins in 4 years and a team that is regressing badly at this point. That's a pretty hard sell.The only thing it has going for it is consistency, which is only a good thing if your team is playing well. Consistently mediocre isn't a good thing.

 

[17to85]

No see I don't want to fire Walters either. I want him to improve the teams american recruitment, and I want O'Shea to improve his coordinators. You can do both without firing everyone. But again, angry people want heads to roll to soothe their anger. 

Walters and O'Shea both bring valuable things to this team, why do you people ignore those? 

[blueandgoldguy]

Every coach and gm, past and present, bring valuable things to the table - even the Mike Kellys and Kavis Reeds of the world.  That's not a compelling enough reason to keep them.  Do those valuable things outweigh all the non-valuable or bad things they bring to the table?  

[rebusrankin]

Since Walters became GM every other team in the CFL has won a playoff game. Five of the other eight teams have appeared in a Grey Cup. At some point you have to produce results. As well, Walters has had five years to build a quality American scouting team and he has failed to do so. How long does he get? Maybe, just maybe hiring a CIS coach with a losing record, who was a poor CFL ST coach was not a good idea.How long do you get to grow into a job? Frankly why should those of us who are season ticket holders have to pay for somebody to learn on the job?

[TBURGESS]

14 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

No see I don't want to fire Walters either. I want him to improve the teams american recruitment, and I want O'Shea to improve his coordinators. You can do both without firing everyone. But again, angry people want heads to roll to soothe their anger. 

Walters and O'Shea both bring valuable things to this team, why do you people ignore those? 

You're suggesting that we keep everyone except some scouts? You think that's enough to turn this around?

[Floyd]

57 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

Perhaps hiring a CIS coach who had a losing record and who was a so so ST coach for GM was not the best idea?

I agree... but would Duane Ford have performed any better...?  He was deemed too expensive...  I don't remember the other candidates...  if there were any

[WBBFanWest]

22 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

Since Walters became GM every other team in the CFL has won a playoff game. Five of the other eight teams have appeared in a Grey Cup. At some point you have to produce results. As well, Walters has had five years to build a quality American scouting team and he has failed to do so. How long does he get? Maybe, just maybe hiring a CIS coach with a losing record, who was a poor CFL ST coach was not a good idea.How long do you get to grow into a job? Frankly why should those of us who are season ticket holders have to pay for somebody to learn on the job?

Firstly, being a coach or a coordinator will not be a good predictor of how someone will do as a GM because they are completely different skill sets.  Secondly, Walters was a assistant GM to Mack.  Now I realize that  that is not much of a qualification, but at the very least, Walters got to see, up close, exactly how a crappy GM does his job, so at least he had "don't do this" training.  I was skeptical when he was hired, but I think that he's doing a reasonably good job.   We need better Americans and a bit more depth, but then again, most teams do.  Lastly, in my experience, most GM's get to fire one HC before it's their turn, so he's still carrying his O'Shea meat shield.  For now...

[rebusrankin]

My point was that he had a lousy resume for a GM and was not really successful in his prior jobs. His resume for building our Canadians is great but honestly to an extent a little overated here. Half the team is americans and his scouting here is not good enough.

[DR. CFL]

1 hour ago, pigseye said:

It actually is, our scouting department is only 5 - 6 years old? You can't compare that to a guy like Paul Jones who's been in Edmonton for 20+ years (he's outlasted coaches and GM's) and expect the same results, that's just not realistic. We chose to build our own organization from the ground floor up mostly because we had to. Considering where they started from, the last two season of 23 - 13 is really impressive. These guys may not get it done in the end but they will have definitely left the organization in a far better state then where they started from and it will be that much easier for the next regime coming in. 

All you have done is reinforce the fact that this organization failed to hire qualified, experienced people.

[17to85]

2 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

You're suggesting that we keep everyone except some scouts? You think that's enough to turn this around?

Considering where this regime has brought us to, yes I do think we can give them more rope. 

[TBURGESS]

8 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Considering where this regime has brought us to, yes I do think we can give them more rope. 

How much more? 1 year? 2? 3? 

[pigseye]

10 hours ago, DR. CFL said:

All you have done is reinforce the fact that this organization failed to hire qualified, experienced people.

But you missed the most important part, they have laid the foundation for a successful organization and will leave it in far better shape then when they took over. The next regime can now be staffed with qualified, experienced people because before these guys arrived, you couldn't draw flies to this organization, at least that's the hope. 

[Stickem]

It's going to be a hard sell IF we miss the post season ...The majority of fans will not buy this current group another year and it will start showing at the gate...This is a business and when the bottom line starts reflecting bad management and coaching the red flag is hoisted...There's been enough time for this current regime to at least produce a win in the playoffs...IF that doesn't occur the gloves will be off and the exit door for a few people on this club will be wide open...Bet on it

[Goalie]

To find a QB... None of these threads are posted if Nichols has been average even.. Hes been quite below average tho. 

Thats the bottom line in the CFL.. Your team basically is as good as your QB. Ours has been bad. 

[blue_gold_84]

Aren't Walters and O'Shea on contract for a while...? Should the WFC continue paying out individuals not employed by the organization? Hall will be gone after this season (his contract is up). LaPolice could be gone if another HC vacancy pops up. Even if he's not, he's a very good OC. Is another rebuild the answer?

I think it's imperative the organization put together a better scouting program for INT talent. This team's ability to find receiver and secondary talent has been absolutely embarrassing.

[DR. CFL]

4 hours ago, pigseye said:

But you missed the most important part, they have laid the foundation for a successful organization and will leave it in far better shape then when they took over. The next regime can now be staffed with qualified, experienced people because before these guys arrived, you couldn't draw flies to this organization, at least that's the hope. 

Not sure that your laying the foundation theory holds up. Historically when there is a regime change the next people in want to hire their own people. I’m not sure who the worthy survivors are from this crew.

[bb1]

Well right now we need to be upgrading our rec..  and nothing is happening. Why are we not able to find a  American Rec or 2? I hate to pull out Sask...but they are still cutting and bringing guys in and they are playing well right now. Are we waiting for Dressler to stay healthy for more than 5 games? I really like Walters but our American talent is behind the elite in this league and we are standing pat.

[pigseye]

2 hours ago, DR. CFL said:

Not sure that your laying the foundation theory holds up. Historically when there is a regime change the next people in want to hire their own people. I’m not sure who the worthy survivors are from this crew.

Yes, historically when we have cleaned house, everyone goes but, we never had a dedicated scouting department before this regime created it. Maybe those guys go too but it would be nice to at least retain some of them, like I said before, Edmonton finds talented imports because even though GM's and coaches come and go there, Paul Jones has been retained. 

[Goalie]

Maybe our reveivers aren't being put in position to use their strengths.. Washington is apparently a burner type.. Perhaps we have the talent but our OC is forcing square pegs in to round holes. I wonder how good Duke or Any Edmonton receiver would be if they were given 5 yard passes and asked to make 4 guys miss to get the extra 5. Or if Reilly didnt hit them in stride and they literally stood there waiting for the ball to arrive. 

Edited September 12, 2018 by Goalie

[pigseye]

2 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Maybe our reveivers aren't being put in position to use their strengths.. Washington is apparently a burner type.. Perhaps we have the talent but our OC is forcing square pegs in to round holes

I just replied in the other thread

Petermann & Woli in the slots, Adams & Washington/Thompkins are the wideouts, getr done. 

[NorthernSkunk]

Plus we have three QB's so find one that can hit these guys in stride......and hit them further than 20 yards downfield consistently....

[pigseye]

7 minutes ago, NorthernSkunk said:

Plus we have three QB's so find one that can hit these guys in stride......and hit them further than 20 yards downfield consistently....

Bennet can throw the ball threw the eye of a needle at 100 yards, freakish arm strength, just needs a shot. 

[DR. CFL]

34 minutes ago, pigseye said:

Yes, historically when we have cleaned house, everyone goes but, we never had a dedicated scouting department before this regime created it. Maybe those guys go too but it would be nice to at least retain some of them, like I said before, Edmonton finds talented imports because even though GM's and coaches come and go there, Paul Jones has been retained. 

The difference being historically a Paul Jones success goes back to his original days n the Peg in the 80’s. He actually finds players.....this crew ?

[Goalie]

10 minutes ago, DR. CFL said:

The difference being historically a Paul Jones success goes back to his original days n the Peg in the 80’s. He actually finds players.....this crew ?

Have found a few. JSK. Leggett. Alexander. Thompkins looks good. Jeffcoat. I liked Priester last game. 

Its not like they haven't found ppl. .

Its weird how this seems focused on the O... Our QB has been complete crap..