Next Game vs Calgary Here

[NorthernSkunk]

51 minutes ago, Arnold_Palmer said:

It would be nice to see Nichols get the respect he deserves. What’s his record since taking over for Willy in 2016? If you don’t think there’s a correlation between us turning around as a franchise then you’re out to lunch. Let’s enjot what we have going now. Was Nichols great during our losing streak? No. Is he a contributor to our 8-5 record with him in the line up? Absolutely. 

Wouldn’t any player on the team who has been here since the turn around warrant as much respect ?

[Booch]

Sure wins can be considered a team stat...but if you have a QB tossing picks, and not getting in a position to score points (TD's and FG's) by either going 2 and out all game or just not making plays..then is that not the result of a poor QB ...Just as much as it is an efficient and good QB doing the opposite to get those ponts being largely on his shoulders?

Same with saying a good measure is yards passed for means a better QB...But what about who has to deal with more drops..receiver running wrong route..poor o-line causing rushed throws...too many factors to judge by stats and scores...

If a team is consistently winning and putting up points, with a QB who is efficient, not making errors to cost the team and running the offence as intended..then the end result is going to have a lot to do with their play...or lack thereoff.

For the most part..if you look at Nichols body of work since he took over for Willy, he has ran the offence very well..produced wins and for the most part protected the ball and didn't do things that caused us to lose...EXCEPT for that bizarre 4 game skid and a few games prior to the playoffs last year where he was very average, and that can be chalked up to his injuries...and I think same was true this year with his knee..he has basically played pretty good and always gave us a chance to win...His record shows it and that was propping up a lousy defense for a lot of the wins too.

Sure I'd like to see him step it up and take over a game in the play-offs and be a real difference maker, but if we win with him throwing 2 td's, no picks and no bone head plays/gifts (hello Willie Jefferson and Toby Antiguh) then I am fine with that too

[WBBFanWest]

30 minutes ago, NorthernSkunk said:

Wouldn’t any player on the team who has been here since the turn around warrant as much respect ?

Can you really be that obtuse?  There's a reason that QB's get payed more than everyone else.  There is no other position on the field that will have the same impact on a team as that position, and if you have even a rudimentary understanding of this game, you'd know that.   But of course, you do know that, but asking an honest question isn't the point for you, is it?

[17to85]

Nichols isn't the best QB in the league, and neither is he the worst. What he is, is a guy who can win games (we've seen him win a lot more than he loses since he took over the starting job here). 

I mean hell he's dealt with a pretty soft defense a lot of his time here too which means he's had to be pretty efficient to get a lot of those wins. 

I got no problems going forward with Nichols as the qb because we know we can win with the guy. 

[Arnold_Palmer]

45 minutes ago, NorthernSkunk said:

Wouldn’t any player on the team who has been here since the turn around warrant as much respect ?

Tough to say because as great as Leggett, Randle, and Dressler have been.. they still weren’t winning when Willy was in the line up. 

[Brandon]

1 minute ago, Arnold_Palmer said:

Tough to say because as great as Leggett, Randle, and Dressler have been.. they still weren’t winning when Willy was in the line up. 

This team turned it around once our o-line solidified.      Nichols was really good the last few years... this year he's been definitely one of the worst starting qbs in the league.    The only qb who has disappointed more has been Collaros and the Riders have a great w/l record despite Zach sucking it up.  

 

[trueBlue83]

3 hours ago, JCon said:

When the team loses, it's Nichols fault. When they win, it's a team win. 

Can't you follow TBurgs logic?!

yet many want to point to Nichols winning record and talk about how many games "he's won us".   Kind of a double standard is it not?

I don't think our record would be any different, if anything, probably a couple extra wins, had Streveler played the whole year.   Nichols has not done anything earth shattering at all this season, where you could say 'he was the difference in this game... he really won us the game!'

Is what it is though... Nichols will start, hopefully we make the playoffs, and we'll get to see what he's really made of!

[JCon]

5 minutes ago, Brandon said:

This team turned it around once our o-line solidified.      Nichols was really good the last few years... this year he's been definitely one of the worst starting qbs in the league.    The only qb who has disappointed more has been Collaros and the Riders have a great w/l record despite Zach sucking it up.  

 

Really, Nichols has been worse than Manziel, Collaros, Jennings, Bethel-Thompson, etc? 

[JCon]

1 minute ago, trueBlue83 said:

yet many want to point to Nichols winning record and talk about how many games "he's won us".   Kind of a double standard is it not?

I don't think our record would be any different, if anything, probably a couple extra wins, had Streveler played the whole year.   Nichols has not done anything earth shattering at all this season, where you could say 'he was the difference in this game... he really won us the game!'

Is what it is though... Nichols will start, hopefully we make the playoffs, and we'll get to see what he's really made of!

That's insane. Streveler has been fine but, under extended opportunities, his inexperience has been shown. 

[trueBlue83]

Just now, JCon said:

That's insane. Streveler has been fine but, under extended opportunities, his inexperience has been shown. 

so you don't think he would have improved over the course of the season with experience?  kind of closed minded way of looking at things, isn't it?

[JCon]

Just now, trueBlue83 said:

so you don't think he would have improved over the course of the season with experience?  kind of closed minded way of looking at things, isn't it?

How is it closed minded? Are you assuming that all QBs improve simply by playing? Manziel hasn't. 

Streveler needs time to develop and learn. That comes with practice and get opportunities to play, just like they're doing. 

[trueBlue83]

1 minute ago, JCon said:

How is it closed minded? Are you assuming that all QBs improve simply by playing? Manziel hasn't. 

Streveler needs time to develop and learn. That comes with practice and get opportunities to play, just like they're doing. 

I'm talking about Streveler specifically and the potential he has.  That's fine if you don't think he would have improved, but I think you're lying to yourself.

Manziel, sure he's improved.  Playing behind that O-Line, do you think anyone would be succeeding?  Come on man...  you can tell he's got the tools to be successful in this league.

As far as "opportunities to play", other than short yardage plays, he's really only been given the 2nd half in the Banjo Bowl, which was an absolute necessity, and the 4th quarter last game.   There's been many other opportunities where Streveler should have gone in, but O'Shea decided to stick with Matt even though it was the wrong decision.

[Brandon]

22 minutes ago, JCon said:

Really, Nichols has been worse than Manziel, Collaros, Jennings, Bethel-Thompson, etc? 

I didn't say that,  I said Nichols has been the biggest disappointment with exception to Collaros.     Nobody thought that Manziel ,  Jennings or Bethel-Thompson would be succeeding.     Everyone had much higher expectations for Matt and Zach.  Both of those guys have failed to earn their pay cheques.    

[17to85]

Typical Winnipeg fan behaviour expecting the potential of a rookie qb to just work out. 

I love the potential Streveler has, guy has all sorts of tools and an attitude that I loved since I first heard him interviewed in training camp... but he's not going to step in and be better than Nichols this year. The fact that they basically both wind up with the same kinds of passing numbers any time they get to play tells me that this offense isn't designed to showcase the qbs arms. 

Not sure why people think that's on the QBs. 

We got a running team that runs the ball and passes short with some deep shots thrown in. Not going to get huge qb numbers with that considering who our deep threat options are at receiver. 

[17to85]

Just now, Brandon said:

I didn't say that,  I said Nichols has been the biggest disappointment with exception to Collaros.     Nobody thought that Manziel ,  Jennings or Bethel-Thompson would be succeeding.     Everyone had much higher expectations for Matt and Zach.  Both of those guys have failed to earn their pay cheques.    

Some people expected Jennings to be good, and people certainly expected Franklin to be good. Hell some people even thought Manziel would be good too. 

Nichols has been good this year except for about a 5 game stretch. People are blowing his struggles out of proportion simply because he doesn't put up the big sexy passing yards. 

[trueBlue83]

6 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Typical Winnipeg fan behaviour expecting the potential of a rookie qb to just work out. 

I love the potential Streveler has, guy has all sorts of tools and an attitude that I loved since I first heard him interviewed in training camp... but he's not going to step in and be better than Nichols this year. The fact that they basically both wind up with the same kinds of passing numbers any time they get to play tells me that this offense isn't designed to showcase the qbs arms. 

Not sure why people think that's on the QBs. 

We got a running team that runs the ball and passes short with some deep shots thrown in. Not going to get huge qb numbers with that considering who our deep threat options are at receiver. 

I have been following this team religiously for a long time.... and I haven't seen a backup QB with potential like Streveler, maybe ever in the 20 years I've been a season ticket holder.  So to call me a typical Winnipeg fan... whatever, to each their own.

As far as the offence being designed on being short yardage plays.... I think that has as much to do with having a starting QB with limited arm strength as it does "LaPo's style".  Like you have your problems with LaPo, I see nothing more than an average QB in Nichols, and have thought so since middle of last season!

[MC]

What a terrible thread.  The Bombers are playing the most important game of the season to this point tomorrow and the discussion is an old retread on whether Nichols is a starting QB.  At least it hasn't yet descending into a discussion about mortgages and sales training (unlike another thread here)

This is not a great matchup for the Bombers.  They played with the Stamps earlier in the season when Calgary looked like they usually do.  I am not sure what is going on with the Calgary offense, but they still have an outstanding QB and a great OC/HC.  The only difference I see this is year is that they have usually had an internal pipeline that filled in for injuries with players who already knew and understood their system.  This year they have gotten players from outside and started them. 

[WBBFanWest]

53 minutes ago, trueBlue83 said:

yet many want to point to Nichols winning record and talk about how many games "he's won us".   Kind of a double standard is it not?

I don't think our record would be any different, if anything, probably a couple extra wins, had Streveler played the whole year.   Nichols has not done anything earth shattering at all this season, where you could say 'he was the difference in this game... he really won us the game!'

Is what it is though... Nichols will start, hopefully we make the playoffs, and we'll get to see what he's really made of!

Guess you haven't really been paying attention the last couple of years.    He played as well as anyone could possibly ask.

[JCon]

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

Nichols was really good the last few years... this year he's been definitely one of the worst starting qbs in the league.     The only qb who has disappointed more has been Collaros and the Riders have a great w/l record despite Zach sucking it up.  

 

 

38 minutes ago, Brandon said:

I didn't say that,  I said Nichols has been the biggest disappointment with exception to Collaros.    

Do you even read what you write? 

[Tehedra]

I agree that this weeks match-up against Calgary is typically a poor match for our team, however, I honestly believe that we will go in and win this game to clinch a play off spot this year.

 

I also expect after clinching that we will win a playoff game as well and then see what happens from there. I like our odds better in the west than in the east at this moment.

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, WBBFanWest said:

Guess you haven't really been paying attention the last couple of years.    He played as well as anyone could possibly ask.

Disagree to an extent. Nichols has played well most often but has also had games where he was ineffective or just terrible. He could be another quarterback who can play well enough to keep a job (AKA Kevin Glenn) but just not well enough to win the Big Games.

[WBBFanWest]

14 minutes ago, Tracker said:

Disagree to an extent. Nichols has played well most often but has also had games where he was ineffective or just terrible. He could be another quarterback who can play well enough to keep a job (AKA Kevin Glenn) but just not well enough to win the Big Games.

He did more than enough to win the semi final last year.  Not his fault we lost.  There's no reason to say that he can't "bring it" in the playoffs.

[NorthernSkunk]

2 minutes ago, WBBFanWest said:

He did more than enough to win the semi final last year.  Not his fault we lost.  There's no reason to say that he can't "bring it" in the playoffs.

Except for the fact he is 0-2 when starting a playoff game (?)

[WBBFanWest]

5 minutes ago, NorthernSkunk said:

Except for the fact he is 0-2 when starting a playoff game (?)

Sorry, you're being dense on purpose.  Not going to play that game with you.

[JCon]

23 minutes ago, WBBFanWest said:

Sorry, you're being dense on purpose.  Not going to play that game with you.

Nichols threw for 390 yards and no picks against the Lions, in the 2016 WSF. I know NS is just trolling but the narrative that Nichols can't win big games is silly. The defense folded when they needed them. 

As usual, with the anti-Nichols crowd, they want him to win the games by himself but will only give credit for team wins. They want him to throw over 300 yards and be a difference maker but don't want him making mistakes. Of course, when he does that, it doesn't matter because "he's a game manager and can't win big games." 

Doesn't matter what Nichols does or doesn't do. They will blame him for losses and praise the "team" for wins. 

There's even a narrative now, that the team would be better if Streveler played a whole year. (Ignoring the fact that we would be nowhere near the playoffs)

Edited October 25, 2018 by JCon