Reilly - Old News

[blueandgoldguy]

 

Joe Mack AKA Mr. Dithers really messed this one up.  He waited too long to release Elliott and Brink and by the time he did, Reilly was signed, sealed and delivered to the Esks.  And as far as those who claim Burke would have started Buck anyways, that's on Mack as well. 

 

Never did believe those silly stories about Edmonton being closer to Washington as the deciding factor for Reilly.  This article pretty much confirms. 

 

What makes it worse is that Mack could have had Glenn for a second or third rounder and yet he didn't pull the trigger.  Man definitely didn't appreciate how important the QB position was and over-estimated his ability in finding QBs (and most other positions on the Bombers as it turns out) in the US.

 

His parents drive from Montana for every game.  I went on a roadtrip to Montana last summer and it's two full days of driving from here.  That could very well have been a factor.  The only closer CFL city to where Reilly's family lives is Calgary.  If Reilly thought he couldn't win the job from Buck, Elliott and Brink while having a starters contract in his back pocket, he must have low self-esteem.

 

Not a lack of self-esteem, more of a lack of confidence in management in making a prudent decision.  Hard to prove yourself with a million Qbs in camp - limited reps in exhibition games.  Mack blew it by not releasing one or both of them earlier instead of dithering around although it's doubtful he would have taken a chance swapping picks to speak with Reilly (would have been worth risk for a QB).

 

As for Montana, I can drive there in eight hours.  That's a days drive.  Depends on the part of the state his parents are from I guess.  It's not like arrangements couldn't have been made to get his parents to games here anyways.

[Mr Dee]

The only ones who know what really happened are the Bombers & the Eskimos. No one will ever tell.

 

And it's time we leave it at that.

[bluto]

Reilly was available and a GM identified him as offseason target #1. that said GM didn't do what was necessary to get his man and then bent his efforts towards spin control is why Mack deserves the scorn he's getting. a loser, flat out.

[Captain Blue]

Reilly was available and a GM identified him as offseason target #1. that said GM didn't do what was necessary to get his man and then bent his efforts towards spin control is why Mack deserves the scorn he's getting. a loser, flat out.

Sigh. I love how you make it so simple. "Oh, just go get him!"

I wanted Reilly here but there is a lot of things we had to consider. It's not Madden.

But hey while we're at it, Mack has caused global warming. Also the Syrian attacks. Oh and any natural disaster that may come this year? I'll save you the suspense. It was Mack.

[JuranBoldenRules]

 

 

Joe Mack AKA Mr. Dithers really messed this one up.  He waited too long to release Elliott and Brink and by the time he did, Reilly was signed, sealed and delivered to the Esks.  And as far as those who claim Burke would have started Buck anyways, that's on Mack as well. 

 

Never did believe those silly stories about Edmonton being closer to Washington as the deciding factor for Reilly.  This article pretty much confirms. 

 

What makes it worse is that Mack could have had Glenn for a second or third rounder and yet he didn't pull the trigger.  Man definitely didn't appreciate how important the QB position was and over-estimated his ability in finding QBs (and most other positions on the Bombers as it turns out) in the US.

 

His parents drive from Montana for every game.  I went on a roadtrip to Montana last summer and it's two full days of driving from here.  That could very well have been a factor.  The only closer CFL city to where Reilly's family lives is Calgary.  If Reilly thought he couldn't win the job from Buck, Elliott and Brink while having a starters contract in his back pocket, he must have low self-esteem.

 

Not a lack of self-esteem, more of a lack of confidence in management in making a prudent decision.  Hard to prove yourself with a million Qbs in camp - limited reps in exhibition games.  Mack blew it by not releasing one or both of them earlier instead of dithering around although it's doubtful he would have taken a chance swapping picks to speak with Reilly (would have been worth risk for a QB).

 

As for Montana, I can drive there in eight hours.  That's a days drive.  Depends on the part of the state his parents are from I guess.  It's not like arrangements couldn't have been made to get his parents to games here anyways.

 

Kalispell.  On the other side of the continental divide.

[iso_55]

What bugs me isn't the fact we didn't sign Reilly, it was the Bomber fans sticking up for Mack saying Reilly was crap & that going after him would have been a mistake. What has he ever done? What makes everyone think he's any good?? That's all we heard. That pissed me off more than anything. How Reilly was trashed just assuming because he didn't sign here he was a piece of crap. And that the qbs we had were just as good or  better.

[Jacquie]

Joe Mack AKA Mr. Dithers really messed this one up.  He waited too long to release Elliott and Brink and by the time he did, Reilly was signed, sealed and delivered to the Esks.  And as far as those who claim Burke would have started Buck anyways, that's on Mack as well. 

 

Never did believe those silly stories about Edmonton being closer to Washington as the deciding factor for Reilly.  This article pretty much confirms. 

 

What makes it worse is that Mack could have had Glenn for a second or third rounder and yet he didn't pull the trigger.  Man definitely didn't appreciate how important the QB position was and over-estimated his ability in finding QBs (and most other positions on the Bombers as it turns out) in the US.

 

 

Reilly was quoted as saying:

 

Steven Jyles was under contract, and they released him. They made it clear through some of their moves in the off-season that they were looking to bring in another quarterback

 

 

Releasing Buck would have been the only equivalent to what Edmonton did. Burke wanted Buck on the roster and Burke named Buck starter long before TC started. If Reilly was looking for a wide open competition for starting QB he wasn't going to get it as long as Buck was Burke's preference as starter.

 

As far as I'm concerned the Lions not allowing the Bombers to speak to Reilly before the trade was still a deal breaker.

[iso_55]

Jacquie, of course the Bombers would spin this to make someone else look like the bad guy. Who knows? Even Bob Irving said the way things happened depends on WHO YOU TALK  TO.

[Jacquie]

Jacquie, of course the Bombers would spin this to make someone else look like the bad guy. Who knows? Even Bob Irving said the way things happened depends on WHO YOU TALK TO.

Mack said we weren't allowed to speak to Reilly first while Buono said the Eskimos were. That was still the deal breaker as far as I'm concerned. Unless Buono or someone from the Bombers goes on record saying otherwise I'm taking anything certain members of the media write using their unnamed sources with a grain of salt because IMO the only spinning to make someone the bad guy that is being done now is by Penton et al as they continue to take every opportunity to re-write history to suit their agendas.

[bluto]

 

Reilly was available and a GM identified him as offseason target #1. that said GM didn't do what was necessary to get his man and then bent his efforts towards spin control is why Mack deserves the scorn he's getting. a loser, flat out.

Sigh. I love how you make it so simple. "Oh, just go get him!"

I wanted Reilly here but there is a lot of things we had to consider. It's not Madden.

But hey while we're at it, Mack has caused global warming. Also the Syrian attacks. Oh and any natural disaster that may come this year? I'll save you the suspense. It was Mack.

 

 

frankly, yes. "just go get him".

 

there were only 2 teams in the running and your GM designated him as the priority... then failed to make a serious offer or even a serious pitch. 

 

winners win and closers close. the only thing that prevented Mack from doing what it took to land Reilly was Mack and his weak excuses and false spin after the fact... and the people who are still defending the architect of this disaster (HC, OC, QB, O-Line, secondary) are just too ego-invested in their prior Mack-love to step back (even now!) and lay the blame at the feet of the man who frankly should never have been hired (he'd been out of football for a decade for a reason... as some handsome guy from Toronto remarked at the time of his hire)... and if hired, should never have been placed in a position outside of scouting/personnel.

[Mr Dee]

[billfrank]

 

 

Reilly was available and a GM identified him as offseason target #1. that said GM didn't do what was necessary to get his man and then bent his efforts towards spin control is why Mack deserves the scorn he's getting. a loser, flat out.

Sigh. I love how you make it so simple. "Oh, just go get him!"

I wanted Reilly here but there is a lot of things we had to consider. It's not Madden.

But hey while we're at it, Mack has caused global warming. Also the Syrian attacks. Oh and any natural disaster that may come this year? I'll save you the suspense. It was Mack.

 

 

frankly, yes. "just go get him".

 

there were only 2 teams in the running and your GM designated him as the priority... then failed to make a serious offer or even a serious pitch. 

 

winners win and closers close. the only thing that prevented Mack from doing what it took to land Reilly was Mack and his weak excuses and false spin after the fact... and the people who are still defending the architect of this disaster (HC, OC, QB, O-Line, secondary) are just too ego-invested in their prior Mack-love to step back (even now!) and lay the blame at the feet of the man who frankly should never have been hired (he'd been out of football for a decade for a reason... as some handsome guy from Toronto remarked at the time of his hire)... and if hired, should never have been placed in a position outside of scouting/personnel.

 

I don't think the situation is completely black and white, but I think there is enough evidence out there to support this view. The deal with Edmonton involved trading second round picks with BC for Reilly (essentially the right to talk with him until Feb), and in addition, sending Edmonton's second pick to BC if Reilly was actually signed. Before agreeing to this, Buono contacted Mack to see if he would better the offer by switching first round picks with BC (our second for their sixth), to talk to Reilly, with a third round pick sent to BC if he signed with BBs. Mack refused to trade first round picks for the right to talk to Reilly and try to sign him. He also did not follow Hervey's lead of clearing out most other competitors for the QB position, (to make it clear that Reilly was clearly being targeted as the starter), even though it eventually became clear that Elliot and Brink were not in their plans, and were released. Some argue that Reilly was never coming here anyway and Mack made the right decision. Mack himself probably thought Reilly would go to FA, and Buono was just trying to squeeze value out of him before he left. But the risk here was fairly small (trading first round picks, you only lose the third round pick if Reilly signs), and the reward potentially huge. Mack knew he was going into the season with Buck and Goltz at QB. He did not think Reilly was enough of an upgrade on that to take the risk of trading down in the draft, nor did he think Reilly was good enough (or Buck bad enough) to sacrifice Buck the way Hervey sacrificed Jyles. To me that exposes him as a poor judge of QB talent, and a poor judge of what the relative risks and rewards were here. Could he have traded down, talked to Reilly, and have him signed with EE anyway?  Sure, but IMO a good GM would have made the deal, and known how to convince Reilly to come here.

 

I agree this back and forth argument about Reilly has gotten stale. But its somewhat relevant because we may find ourselves in a similar situation this fall. We can wait for FA in February, with the hope of signing someone like Collaros, Willy (if he only signed a 2 year deal, and is a free agent) or Glen. But as one poster has already noted, another team may decide to give Toronto something after the season to talk to Collaros and try to sign him before free agency. Montreal and Ottawa are both probably interested in him. I know, no one wants to trade a decent player or a high draft pick for the right to talk to a player who may then sign elsewhere. But how will we feel, if Collaros signs with another team before FA (why wouldn't he wait? Why should he if he gets the starters role and the salary he wants  ie see Mike Reilly), and Ottawa drafts/signs Willy. We're then looking at Burris (may resign with Hamilton and is already nearing the end of this career), maybe Glenn (if Calgary doesn't resign him), an injury prone Tate. This is speculative, and lots could change by the end of the season, based on how QBs perform, and injuries. But I think a lot of how our team performs in the next 3 to 5 years may hinge on making the right move this fall, and that may require the GM to be proactive, as opposed to just waiting for FA in February, where we could be left picking up the scraps.

[saskbluefan]

What?  Next thing you know we're going to find out that Brendan LaBatte didn't decide at birth he was going to Saskatchewan as a free agent.

[kelownabomberfan]

What bugs me isn't the fact we didn't sign Reilly, it was the Bomber fans sticking up for Mack saying Reilly was crap & that going after him would have been a mistake. What has he ever done? What makes everyone think he's any good?? That's all we heard. That pissed me off more than anything. How Reilly was trashed just assuming because he didn't sign here he was a piece of crap. And that the qbs we had were just as good or  better.

 

ha ha well I don't recall saying that Reilly sucked, but I did point out reality, and that was that the sample size on Reilly was incredibly small, and that making him the starter before training camp was a huge gamble.  It has paid off now as Reilly has performed, despite playing behind the second crappiest o-line in the league and taking a pounding that no regular human being would have survived.  So congrats on the call that Reilly was going to be awesome.  I guess some of us just want to wait and see before we proclaim him the next Tom Clements.  Now we have seen, and we believe.  I just want to know how much longer Reilly is going to make it this year.  He took yet another vicious pounding yesterday.

[Jacquie]

there were only 2 teams in the running and your GM designated him as the priority... then failed to make a serious offer or even a serious pitch. 

How do you know? You don't know what Mack offered.

[Floyd]

 

there were only 2 teams in the running and your GM designated him as the priority... then failed to make a serious offer or even a serious pitch. 

How do you know? You don't know what Mack offered.

 

 

IF he offered anything (I personally think he just thought he could wait until FA...), it wasn't enough that's all that matters.

 

Its just a shame that good players get cut and get nothing while a sad sack GM destroys a team and gets a couple more years of $$ guaranteed.

[Jacquie]

I don't think the situation is completely black and white, but I think there is enough evidence out there to support this view. The deal with Edmonton involved trading second round picks with BC for Reilly (essentially the right to talk with him until Feb), and in addition, sending Edmonton's second pick to BC if Reilly was actually signed. Before agreeing to this, Buono contacted Mack to see if he would better the offer by switching first round picks with BC (our second for their sixth), to talk to Reilly, with a third round pick sent to BC if he signed with BBs. Mack refused to trade first round picks for the right to talk to Reilly and try to sign him. He also did not follow Hervey's lead of clearing out most other competitors for the QB position, (to make it clear that Reilly was clearly being targeted as the starter), even though it eventually became clear that Elliot and Brink were not in their plans, and were released. Some argue that Reilly was never coming here anyway and Mack made the right decision. Mack himself probably thought Reilly would go to FA, and Buono was just trying to squeeze value out of him before he left. But the risk here was fairly small (trading first round picks, you only lose the third round pick if Reilly signs), and the reward potentially huge. Mack knew he was going into the season with Buck and Goltz at QB. He did not think Reilly was enough of an upgrade on that to take the risk of trading down in the draft, nor did he think Reilly was good enough (or Buck bad enough) to sacrifice Buck the way Hervey sacrificed Jyles. To me that exposes him as a poor judge of QB talent, and a poor judge of what the relative risks and rewards were here. Could he have traded down, talked to Reilly, and have him signed with EE anyway?  Sure, but IMO a good GM would have made the deal, and known how to convince Reilly to come here.

You missed the part where Hervey made an offer and then told Buono he would up his offer if Buono agreed to not shop Reilly to other teams (Hervey said this happened - not an unnamed source to a reporter).

And you didn't include the part where Edmonton was given permission to talk to Reilly before trade and the Bombers weren't.

[Floyd]

 

I don't think the situation is completely black and white, but I think there is enough evidence out there to support this view. The deal with Edmonton involved trading second round picks with BC for Reilly (essentially the right to talk with him until Feb), and in addition, sending Edmonton's second pick to BC if Reilly was actually signed. Before agreeing to this, Buono contacted Mack to see if he would better the offer by switching first round picks with BC (our second for their sixth), to talk to Reilly, with a third round pick sent to BC if he signed with BBs. Mack refused to trade first round picks for the right to talk to Reilly and try to sign him. He also did not follow Hervey's lead of clearing out most other competitors for the QB position, (to make it clear that Reilly was clearly being targeted as the starter), even though it eventually became clear that Elliot and Brink were not in their plans, and were released. Some argue that Reilly was never coming here anyway and Mack made the right decision. Mack himself probably thought Reilly would go to FA, and Buono was just trying to squeeze value out of him before he left. But the risk here was fairly small (trading first round picks, you only lose the third round pick if Reilly signs), and the reward potentially huge. Mack knew he was going into the season with Buck and Goltz at QB. He did not think Reilly was enough of an upgrade on that to take the risk of trading down in the draft, nor did he think Reilly was good enough (or Buck bad enough) to sacrifice Buck the way Hervey sacrificed Jyles. To me that exposes him as a poor judge of QB talent, and a poor judge of what the relative risks and rewards were here. Could he have traded down, talked to Reilly, and have him signed with EE anyway?  Sure, but IMO a good GM would have made the deal, and known how to convince Reilly to come here.

You missed the part where Hervey made an offer and then told Buono he would up his offer if Buono agreed to not shop Reilly to other teams (Hervey said this happened - not an unnamed source to a reporter).

And you didn't include the part where Edmonton was given permission to talk to Reilly before trade and the Bombers weren't.

 

 

Please stop.  Even your counterpoints still make Mack look like he was asleep at the wheel.  Bombers and Edmonton both needed QBs desperately.  Hervey busted his ass to get one and Mack recruited Max Hall.

[BigBlueFanatic]

Pffft yeah Hervey is a "good" GM because he took a gamble on a QB who hadn't proved anything at the time. Reilly has turned out to be a good one, no denying that - but you are close to sounding like you have a crystal ball as to who will be an all-star and who will be a bum.

[Jacquie]

 

Please stop.  Even your counterpoints still make Mack look like he was asleep at the wheel.  Bombers and Edmonton both needed QBs desperately.  Hervey busted his ass to get one and Mack recruited Max Hall.

Mack did some good things and bad things for this team but I have a hard time believing some of the "revelations" coming from the local media especially since these "revelations" are coming from members of the media who had thrown away their objectivity long ago. I'm tired of the local media creating news, rather than reporting it. I'm tired of the local media cherry picking quotes or misleading people to further their agenda. We have no idea what Mack did or didn't do but I have no doubt that whatever he did do the local media would have spun it to make him look bad.

[billfrank]

I don't think Buono accepted a deal from Hervey not to shop Reilly, since by all reports I've read Buono contacted Mack after speaking to Hervey.

I've always been a little confused by the issue of Edmonton talking to Reilly before the trade.

“I was approached by Edmonton GM Ed Hervey seeking permission to talk to Mike before the free agency period began and in light of Mike’s desire to explore opportunities to become a starting quarterback, I believed a trade was doable,” Lions general manager Wally Buono said in a team media release.

Does this mean Hervey was allowed to trade for Reilly, so he could then talk with him, negotiate, and try to sign him? Or does it mean Bouno let Hervey do all this first in a preliminary form, and once Hervey was satisfied that Reilly would come to Edmonton, he agreed to the trade? I cannot be sure, based on this quote. I don't know if there are other quotes out there. I do know Reilly was signed very quickly, suggesting discussions may have gone on before the actual trade. But I also find it hard to understand why Bouno would give Hervey permission to talk with Reilly for nothing, since that permission to talk/negotiate is essentially what he had to sell. Giving it to Hervey for nothing carries a risk for Buono (that Hervey realizes Reilly is high on Edmonton, and he can wait for free agency, or alternatively that Hervey realizes that a deal is not a sure thing because Reilly wants to go to free agency). The only way I can make sense of Hervey getting to talk to Reilly before a trade is if Bouno knew Mack declined a deal, Hervey insisted in talking first, but promised that he would come through with the trading of picks if Reilly was interested in negotiating with Edmonton before free agency, and Buono figured he had no choice since Hervey was now the only game in town. Why was Mack not allowed to talk to Reilly first? Maybe because Hervey made the first approach, maybe because Buono suspected Mack would not come up with enough in talks to satisfy Reilly whereas Hervey was hot to trot, maybe because Buono did not like Mack... Who knows, ultimately its alot of speculation. But it does not change my opinion that a deal of trading first round picks with BC would have bettered Hervey's offer, (and could not have been easily countered by Edmonton, since they had no first round pick in 2013), and that a good GM would have then found a way to get Reilly signed. Who knows, maybe it happened that way because we're destined to get an even better QB this off season...

[Mr Dee]

It's just......easier 

[Floyd]

Pffft yeah Hervey is a "good" GM because he took a gamble on a QB who hadn't proved anything at the time. Reilly has turned out to be a good one, no denying that - but you are close to sounding like you have a crystal ball as to who will be an all-star and who will be a bum.

 

Instead we settled for an injury-riddled QB who somehow happened to get injured again, a QB who had almost zero game time and now plays like he is in way over his head and an ex-NFL QB who had a history of injuries and interceptions and now gets injured and throws a bunch of interceptions... 

[iso_55]

Bottom line is Mack blew it when it came to finding a qb. He couldn't do it. And the players he drafted & brought in aren't that good. Only 6 or 7of our starters could start on other teams.

[BigBlueFanatic]

LOL fair point regarding Buck. I agree that was a terrible decision to anoint him the starter for this season. Goltz had been in the system for three years, so why not give him a shot given the physical tools he has (how do you know if he will pan out? You won't know until you know, for better or for worse) too bad it all turned to shite. Bomber coaching and o-line deficiencies don't help either.

I'll admit as a fan I never looked too deeply into Hall's history - but unless he magically transforms into a winner I wouldn't "settle" for him either. That said Hervey rolled the dice with Reilly, who until this year had played less than a handful of games, and won. Guess that makes him a genius rather than lucky, never mind his team's crappy record and lunatic head coach.