David Suzuki

[The Unknown Poster]

The earth has gone through several warming and cooling trends.  The earth will continue to go through warming and cooling trends regardless of human intervention.  The earth has been completely frozen and ice-free.  Through no intervention from human beings.  I think it's important to remember that.

If humans caused a warming trend to happen earlier, the earth wont die.  If humans are influencing the weather negatively, then sure, we should be look for ways to prevent that.  We should want to get off fossil fuels even if they had no negative impact.  But taxing people today (especially when corporations get left out) is absurd.  Imagine if the government taxed people 1000 years ago for climate change to help us in 2100.  We'd be laughing about that in history class.

EDIT: Since the topic is DZ....I sort of liken him to a religious nut.  I know some people hate religon but realistically, when common sense is applied, you can disagree with it and you can choose not to believe, but the message is good and its the basis of our morality.  Its when those nuts take advantage of people who believe to line their own pockets that its an outrage.

DZ knows he's full of crap.  And he's a hypocrite.  And he's created a rock star image for himself which he loves.  He's like an evangelist preaching morality while he spends donations of jets, vacations, mansions, 3 wives and 5 gf's.  The MESSAGE is fine...the ACTIONS are a joke.

Edited November 19, 2018 by The Unknown Poster

[Wideleft]

3 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

DZ knows he's full of crap.  And he's a hypocrite.  And he's created a rock star image for himself which he loves.  He's like an evangelist preaching morality while he spends donations of jets, vacations, mansions, 3 wives and 5 gf's.  The MESSAGE is fine...the ACTIONS are a joke.

If you can't even get the fact that he's been married to his second wife since 1972 correct, your other character assassinations ring pretty weak and if his "actions" were such a joke, he wouldn't have been a target of the petroleum industry for so long.   Do you even know what the Suzuki Foundation does?  They have a website that you can check out.

I've had it up to here with people comparing science to religion and scientists to evangelists.  They might be the falsest of equivalencies foisted upon us.  People expect a level of purity from Suzuki that they would never expect from the self-proclaimed Holy Men knowing full well there is a cost (whether financial or environmental) to all actions.  If it's ok to spend a dollar to make 2, why isn't it ok to kill one tree in order to save thousands?

[Wideleft]

On 2018-11-17 at 10:08 AM, NorthernSkunk said:

He kills jobs. 

Certain jobs kill a lot of people.  Don't understand your point.

[The Unknown Poster]

3 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

If you can't even get the fact that he's been married to his second wife since 1972 correct, your other character assassinations ring pretty weak and if his "actions" were such a joke, he wouldn't have been a target of the petroleum industry for so long.   Do you even know what the Suzuki Foundation does?  They have a website that you can check out.

I've had it up to here with people comparing science to religion and scientists to evangelists.  They might be the falsest of equivalencies foisted upon us.  People expect a level of purity from Suzuki that they would never expect from the self-proclaimed Holy Men knowing full well there is a cost (whether financial or environmental) to all actions.  If it's ok to spend a dollar to make 2, why isn't it ok to kill one tree in order to save thousands?

What does his marriage have to do with anything I said?  And no where in there did I see a reasonable defence of his hypocrisy?  Or is it okay for the wealthy to demand the rest of us do as we're told, pay extra taxes while they continue to live large simply because it's a good message?  If so, then I hereby demand the rest of you save the damn world so I can keep living large! lol

[NorthernSkunk]

29 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

Certain jobs kill a lot of people.  Don't understand your point.

He puts out propaganda that wrongly influences the general public....who then use it to keep companies from developing further and creating more jobs in the resource industries.

[Wideleft]

8 minutes ago, NorthernSkunk said:

He puts out propaganda that wrongly influences the general public....who then use it to keep companies from developing further and creating more jobs in the resource industries.

Yeah, I'm going to need examples.  Speaking broadly, he's never been wrong about the big picture issues of environmentalism, sustainability, overharvesting of resources, pollution or climate issues.   Are you saying you're against environmental regulations?  

[Wideleft]

 

40 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

What does his marriage have to do with anything I said?  And no where in there did I see a reasonable defence of his hypocrisy?  Or is it okay for the wealthy to demand the rest of us do as we're told, pay extra taxes while they continue to live large simply because it's a good message?  If so, then I hereby demand the rest of you save the damn world so I can keep living large! lol

You brought it up, so you'll have to explain.  What I am saying is he is being attacked for not being perfect by people who would collapse under the same weight of scrutiny they apply to him.  If the message is good and based on evidence, I don't care if the messenger is rich, poor or middle-class.

[NorthernSkunk]

2 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

Yeah, I'm going to need examples.  Speaking broadly, he's never been wrong about the big picture issues of environmentalism, sustainability, overharvesting of resources, pollution or climate issues.   Are you saying you're against environmental regulations?  

I can speak as broad as Suzuki does if you want...... but I would rather go for a rip on my high octane fuel burning snowmobile and rip up some tundra here in the northern wilds of Canada before it's all gone.

[Wideleft]

Just now, NorthernSkunk said:

I can speak as broad as Suzuki does if you want...... but I would rather go for a rip on my high octane fuel burning snowmobile and rip up some tundra here in the northern wilds of Canada before it's all gone.

Where's the tundra going and why?

[The Unknown Poster]

10 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

 

You brought it up, so you'll have to explain.  What I am saying is he is being attacked for not being perfect by people who would collapse under the same weight of scrutiny they apply to him.  If the message is good and based on evidence, I don't care if the messenger is rich, poor or middle-class.

I didnt bring up his marriage.  I compared him to hypocritical evangelicals who are working a gimmick (faking) a moral high standing while demanding you be moral, send in money and all the while, they live in luxury and cheat on their wives.  To be clear, I dont care if David cheats on his wife.  I wasnt accusing him of that (although didnt he have some creepy requirements for his public speaking engagements) Im saying he's a hypocrite because he knows he asking you to make sacrifices he isnt willing to make.  Its basically a racket.

And my point was also to say its okay to like the message.  If you dont believe in God, its okay to feel that way but I always object to people like Bill Maher who are fanatically atheist (as someone called him on twitter)...the message is still good, as long as you're not a hypocrite.  David is though.

And what that tells me is, he doesnt really believe it.  If the people desperate for you to make sacrifices and pay taxes really believed this was of critical importance to the survival of humanity, wouldn't they be making those sacrifices even more so?  if they're not, it tells you what they really believe...

[NorthernSkunk]

22 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

Where's the tundra going and why?

Ask Suzuki.  He has been preaching the demise of the planet ever since he realized he could make a buck doing it. 

[Wideleft]

3 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I didnt bring up his marriage.  I compared him to hypocritical evangelicals who are working a gimmick (faking) a moral high standing while demanding you be moral, send in money and all the while, they live in luxury and cheat on their wives.  To be clear, I dont care if David cheats on his wife.  I wasnt accusing him of that (although didnt he have some creepy requirements for his public speaking engagements) Im saying he's a hypocrite because he knows he asking you to make sacrifices he isnt willing to make.  Its basically a racket.

And my point was also to say its okay to like the message.  If you dont believe in God, its okay to feel that way but I always object to people like Bill Maher who are fanatically atheist (as someone called him on twitter)...the message is still good, as long as you're not a hypocrite.  David is though.

And what that tells me is, he doesnt really believe it.  If the people desperate for you to make sacrifices and pay taxes really believed this was of critical importance to the survival of humanity, wouldn't they be making those sacrifices even more so?  if they're not, it tells you what they really believe...

 Re: third wife - my apologies - I misread that. 

As for the hypocrisy, I don't entirely agree with this notion that someone who is respected internationally can effectively champion environmental rights without stepping on a plane at some point.  Although I don't know for sure, I'm pretty sure he's not burning old tires in the back of his lifted 2018 F450 just for fun.  If he never stepped on a plane or used a phone or computer made from precious metals mined unenvironmentally, how could he do his work?  Are you asking biologists to stop studying lakes because they burn gas in their boats?  Should a person advocate against noise pollution by not speaking?  How would they do that effectively?

As for sacrifices, I would imagine Suzuki has received more death threats and has been the target of more character assassinations than your average person. 

 

[Wideleft]

8 minutes ago, NorthernSkunk said:

Ask Suzuki.  He has been preaching the demise of the planet ever since he realized he could make a buck doing it. 

Or it could be that he had a legitimate concern.  Come over to the Climate Change discussion thread and we can discuss further.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/energy-environment/2018/11/14/watch-warming-ocean-devour-alaskas-coast-this-striking-time-lapse-video/?utm_term=.bc5bccac2ffb

 

Edited November 19, 2018 by Wideleft

[pigseye]

He, like all environmental activists, should take his own advice;

Education has failed in a very serious way to convey the most important lesson science can teach: skepticism. ~ David Suzuki

[NorthernSkunk]

2 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

Or it could be that he had a legitimate concern.  Come over to the Climate Change discussion thread and we can discuss further.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/energy-environment/2018/11/14/watch-warming-ocean-devour-alaskas-coast-this-striking-time-lapse-video/?utm_term=.bc5bccac2ffb

 

If he was that concerned he wouldn't live the way he does. 

[Mark F]

So....if I understand correctly.

1.David Suzuki says that science has shown that mankind is raising the temperature of the planet.

2. But. David Suzuki lives in three houses, and flies in planes.

3. Therefore.  Mankind is not raising the temperature.

good stuff.

 

Edited November 19, 2018 by Mark F

[The Unknown Poster]

23 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

 Re: third wife - my apologies - I misread that. 

As for the hypocrisy, I don't entirely agree with this notion that someone who is respected internationally can effectively champion environmental rights without stepping on a plane at some point.  Although I don't know for sure, I'm pretty sure he's not burning old tires in the back of his lifted 2018 F450 just for fun.  If he never stepped on a plane or used a phone or computer made from precious metals mined unenvironmentally, how could he do his work?  Are you asking biologists to stop studying lakes because they burn gas in their boats?  Should a person advocate against noise pollution by not speaking?  How would they do that effectively?

As for sacrifices, I would imagine Suzuki has received more death threats and has been the target of more character assassinations than your average person. 

 

I think most people envision scientists as average people and average people do average things (have a car, a modest home, computers, vacations etc).  But David is pretty preachy and thats when people get annoyed.  Same with Al Gore.  If you demand people shrink their carbon footprint but you wont do the same...what does that say?

Wealthy people have every right to enjoy the money they've worked hard for.  But if you become a public person and you preach a cause, you have to expect some scrutiny.  I could be wrong but I honestly think David enjoys his wealth and knows he's being hypocritical and probably feels it doesnt matter what he does because he's only one person...but he doesnt want everyone else thinking that.  Its the mass amount of average (and below) that carry the burden and he knows that.

[The Unknown Poster]

12 minutes ago, Mark F said:

So....if I understand correctly.

1.David Suzuki says that science has shown that mankind is raising the temperature of the planet.

2. But. David Suzuki lives in three houses, and flies in planes.

3. Therefore.  Mankind is not raising the temperature.

good stuff.

 

1.David Suzuki says that science has shown that mankind is raising the temperature of the planet.

2. But. David Suzuki lives in three houses, and flies in planes.

3. Therefore.  David is a hypocrite at best.  At worst he knows the message he's preaching is bogus and hence why he doesn't live by it himself.

 

I remember him taking a lot of flak for having several buses running during his speaking tours and there was some technical explanation for why you want the bus to keep running (keeping the power on or something) but it wasnt lost on people that he had several tour buses running while he was inside preaching carbon responsibility.  The guy can afford a tour bus.  Cool.  But he also could have flown in, taken an electric cab to his hotel, did his engagement, cab back to the airport etc.  If he really believed what he was preaching.

[Mark F]

 

I will post climate change info at that thread.

 

 

[Wideleft]

29 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

1.David Suzuki says that science has shown that mankind is raising the temperature of the planet.

2. But. David Suzuki lives in three houses, and flies in planes.

3. Therefore.  David is a hypocrite at best.  At worst he knows the message he's preaching is bogus and hence why he doesn't live by it himself.

 

I remember him taking a lot of flak for having several buses running during his speaking tours and there was some technical explanation for why you want the bus to keep running (keeping the power on or something) but it wasnt lost on people that he had several tour buses running while he was inside preaching carbon responsibility.  The guy can afford a tour bus.  Cool.  But he also could have flown in, taken an electric cab to his hotel, did his engagement, cab back to the airport etc.  If he really believed what he was preaching.

No, you are asking him to play on an unlevel playing field.  The oil and gas industry can pollute and lie all they want, but David Suzuki has to advocate with the carbon footprint of a medium-sized butterfly.

[The Unknown Poster]

2 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

No, you are asking him to play on an unlevel playing field.  The oil and gas industry can pollute and lie all they want, but David Suzuki has to advocate with the carbon footprint of a medium-sized butterfly.

So David should lie and pollute as much as he wants to...?  Because....then its even?  That doesnt make any sense.  

[Wideleft]

20 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

So David should lie and pollute as much as he wants to...?  Because....then its even?  That doesnt make any sense.  

Suzuki is criticized for leaving a bus running.  Meanwhile, Manitoba's biggest polluters - the Koch Brothers (funders of all sorts of climate change denial) are given a pass.  

That's an uneven playing field.

[Wideleft]

1 hour ago, NorthernSkunk said:

If he was that concerned he wouldn't live the way he does. 

So by this logic, you are encouraging oil and gas to pollute even more so they can make their argument against climate change even more impactful.  

[NorthernSkunk]

1 minute ago, Wideleft said:

So by this logic, you are encouraging oil and gas to pollute even more so they can make their argument against climate change even more impactful.  

My logic tells me he would be leading more by example.  

[Wideleft]

6 minutes ago, NorthernSkunk said:

My logic tells me he would be leading more by example.  

So you would feel that polluters would be even more believable if they polluted more, because you're saying Suzuki would be more believable if he polluted less.

That my friends is an uneven playing field.