David Suzuki

[NorthernSkunk]

Just now, Wideleft said:

So you would feel that polluters would be even more believable if they polluted more, because you're saying Suzuki would be more believable if he polluted less.

That my friends is an uneven playing field.

What a dumb comment about polluters. 

Yes suzuki would be more believable if he polluted less.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

8 minutes ago, NorthernSkunk said:

Yes suzuki would be more believable if he polluted less.

Polluted less than what?

What is your criteria here? Shouldn't you be measuring him against a someone in a similar role/standing?

 

[Wideleft]

13 minutes ago, NorthernSkunk said:

What a dumb comment about polluters. 

Yes suzuki would be more believable if he polluted less.

It's not dumb because that's what the U.S. is doing right now.  You cannot apply that logic to Suzuki without applying the same logic to his opponents.  If not, then you are saying that Suzuki was right all along.

 

Edited November 19, 2018 by Wideleft

[Wideleft]

7 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Polluted less than what?

What is your criteria here? Shouldn't you be measuring him against a someone in a similar role/standing?

 

It's a red herring anyway.  If Suzuki rode around in an electric car, people would complain about the lithium extraction required for the batteries.  If he has a CFL bulb in his house, they would complain that it wasn't LED.  Again, the playing field in regards to expectations is completely tilted against him.  People don't want to listen to what they don't want to hear and they would rather shoot the messenger than learn.

Edited November 19, 2018 by Wideleft

[NorthernSkunk]

6 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

It's not dumb because that's what the U.S. is doing right now.  You cannot apply that logic to Suzuki without applying the same logic to his opponents.  If not, then you are saying that Suzuki was right all along.

 

It's not the same logic though.  Maybe keep editing.

[Wideleft]

If the force of Suzuki's argument that man-made climate change is real would be increased by him lessening his carbon footprint, then therefore, the force of the argument that man-made climate change is not real would be increased by industry increasing their carbon footprint.  That is logic.

And again, this is exactly how the U.S. government is thinking right now and it is not good for anyone except oil, gas & coal owners and shareholders.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

4 minutes ago, NorthernSkunk said:

It's not the same logic though.  Maybe keep editing.

Actually, wideleft  has a point. 

[The Unknown Poster]

54 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

Suzuki is criticized for leaving a bus running.  Meanwhile, Manitoba's biggest polluters - the Koch Brothers (funders of all sorts of climate change denial) are given a pass.  

That's an uneven playing field.

Are the Koch brothers advocating for people to cut down their carbon footprint or to pay a carbon tax?   We expect the bad guys to do bad things.  We expect the good guys to not be hypocrites.  It sounds like you're agreeing that DZ is a hypocrite but you're suggesting its okay because other people do it.  If we're all allowed to preach a positive message AND ignore the message, what's the point?

My point is, if DZ wants to make money to be an environmental preacher, he should practice what he asks us to practice.  Again, we can agree its a GOOD message, but it doesnt change the fact he's a hypocrite and you cant fault people for questioning whether he really believes in it.

[NorthernSkunk]

10 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Actually, wideleft  has a point. 

I don't feel he does.  See above ^^^ the unknown poster explains it well. 

[The Unknown Poster]

15 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

It's a red herring anyway.  If Suzuki rode around in an electric car, people would complain about the lithium extraction required for the batteries.  If he has a CFL bulb in his house, they would complain that it wasn't LED.  Again, the playing field in regards to expectations is completely tilted against him.  People don't want to listen to what they don't want to hear and they would rather shoot the messenger than learn.

Thats absurd.  If DZ came to town in a prius, had a modest home with solar panels etc etc, you think people would complain about that?  That sounds like a great argument for "why should anyone do anything?" and thats making the opposite point that you're trying to make.   If my pastor preaches that I should be faithful to my wife while he's banging the nanny, Im not going to really embrace his message am I?  Im going to think its okay to bang my nanny too.  

 

[Wideleft]

6 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Thats absurd.  If DZ came to town in a prius, had a modest home with solar panels etc etc, you think people would complain about that?  That sounds like a great argument for "why should anyone do anything?" and thats making the opposite point that you're trying to make.   If my pastor preaches that I should be faithful to my wife while he's banging the nanny, Im not going to really embrace his message am I?  Im going to think its okay to bang my nanny too.  

 

It's absurd to say that his opponents haven't stretched for the smallest criticisms or perceived hypocrisies to weaken his message. And how do you know that his houses aren't energy passive?  

[Wideleft]

18 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Are the Koch brothers advocating for people to cut down their carbon footprint or to pay a carbon tax?   We expect the bad guys to do bad things.  We expect the good guys to not be hypocrites.  It sounds like you're agreeing that DZ is a hypocrite but you're suggesting its okay because other people do it.  If we're all allowed to preach a positive message AND ignore the message, what's the point?

My point is, if DZ wants to make money to be an environmental preacher, he should practice what he asks us to practice.  Again, we can agree its a GOOD message, but it doesnt change the fact he's a hypocrite and you cant fault people for questioning whether he really believes in it.

You expect the bad guys to do bad things, but you attack the good guys who say the bad guys are doing bad things because you perceive hypocrisy that may well have been drummed up by the bad guys.

The argument that it's ok for bad guys to be bad guys as long as they're being bad is about the silliest thing I've ever heard.

 

Edited November 19, 2018 by Wideleft

[NorthernSkunk]

1 minute ago, Wideleft said:

It's absurd to say that his opponents haven't stretched for the smallest criticisms or perceived hypocrisies to weaken his message. And how do you know that his houses aren't energy passive?  

'houses'........lol

[pigseye]

“You are what you do, not what you say.” ~ David Suzuki

Yes, Mr. Suzuki, you’re a capitalist who enjoys wealth, travel and activities that emit lots of carbon dioxide. You’re not the environmentalist you claim to be.

[Goalie]

1 hour ago, pigseye said:

“You are what you do, not what you say.” ~ David Suzuki

Yes, Mr. Suzuki, you’re a capitalist who enjoys wealth, travel and activities that emit lots of carbon dioxide. You’re not the environmentalist you claim to be.

Hes also just 1 person and the reality is... 1 person wont make a difference. Hell all of Canada could go enviro friendly.. Solar panels etc... Etc... It wouldn't make 2 shits of a difference as we aren't very high on the countries who make the most pollution list. U need China and the US to do it. They are the biggest issues. If they dont then there's no point to anyone else doing it. Ppl here are against the carbon tax because we dont produce enough of it as a country. We are low on the list. We make no difference.

The air i breathe in Wpg is the same i breathe in LA.. Theres 1 sun.. 

Canada truly makes zero difference here.. Sorry.. We do.. Its just so miniscule that its irrelevant

Edited November 20, 2018 by Goalie

[pigseye]

2 hours ago, Goalie said:

Hes also just 1 person and the reality is... 1 person wont make a difference. Hell all of Canada could go enviro friendly.. Solar panels etc... Etc... It wouldn't make 2 shits of a difference as we aren't very high on the countries who make the most pollution list. U need China and the US to do it. They are the biggest issues. If they dont then there's no point to anyone else doing it. Ppl here are against the carbon tax because we dont produce enough of it as a country. We are low on the list. We make no difference.

The air i breathe in Wpg is the same i breathe in LA.. Theres 1 sun.. 

Canada truly makes zero difference here.. Sorry.. We do.. Its just so miniscule that its irrelevant

I just can't believe that people think there are corporation/shareholders out there who would destroy humanity in the name of greed?

That doesn't even make good business sense, who are your customers going to be in the future? How can you do business without a planet/civilization, the thought is just so ridiculous only a complete loon would buy it.  

[Wideleft]

14 hours ago, Goalie said:

Hes also just 1 person and the reality is... 1 person wont make a difference. Hell all of Canada could go enviro friendly.. Solar panels etc... Etc... It wouldn't make 2 shits of a difference as we aren't very high on the countries who make the most pollution list. U need China and the US to do it. They are the biggest issues. If they dont then there's no point to anyone else doing it. Ppl here are against the carbon tax because we dont produce enough of it as a country. We are low on the list. We make no difference.

The air i breathe in Wpg is the same i breathe in LA.. Theres 1 sun.. 

Canada truly makes zero difference here.. Sorry.. We do.. Its just so miniscule that its irrelevant

So how will doing nothing help convince other countries that they must pursue alternative forms of energy?  How will doing nothing encourage innovation (that can exported) within our own country?  

[NorthernSkunk]

2 hours ago, Wideleft said:

So how will doing nothing help convince other countries that they must pursue alternative forms of energy?  How will doing nothing encourage innovation (that can exported) within our own country?  

3rd world countries and a few others don’t care....nor can they afford being greener.  

[Wideleft]

1 minute ago, NorthernSkunk said:

3rd world countries and a few others don’t care....nor can they afford being greener.  

The third world is already pretty green from a carbon emissions standpoint.  Per capita carbon footprint for Canadians is much, much higher.  Either China, India or the U.S. will make the green energy breakthrough that changes everything and it will be that nation that benefits most (and brings all the other countries with it).  Why wouldn't Canada want to get in on that action?

[NorthernSkunk]

It’s too bad we will all be pushing up daisies by the time that ever gets started.

[Wideleft]

1 hour ago, NorthernSkunk said:

It’s too bad we will all be pushing up daisies by the time that ever gets started.

The breakthrough will come with large-scale energy storage.  I recommend Nova's "Search for the Super Battery" if you can find it online.  It will blow your mind on how close we already are.  

 

[kelownabomberfan]

4 hours ago, Wideleft said:

  Per capita carbon footprint for Canadians is much, much higher.  

I find this "per capita" argument spurious at best.  It's easy for countries in cold climates like Norway to have a lower footprint because they are much more densely populated on a relatively small land mass.  If Norwegians had to fly six hours to get across their country they would have a much higher footprint too.  Canada and Russia are similar, and yet Russia has a much higher population too.  It's cold in Canada.  Our "per capita" footprint is going to be high, because we don't want to freeze to death, and we have to travel a long way to see each other.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

1 hour ago, Wideleft said:

The breakthrough will come with large-scale energy storage.  I recommend Nova's "Search for the Super Battery" if you can find it online.  It will blow your mind on how close we already are.  

 

 

Is this it?

 

Edited November 20, 2018 by wanna-b-fanboy

[Wideleft]

15 hours ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

 

 

Is this it?

 

That's the one.  Thanks!

I'm done posting in this thread.  Will continue in the climate change discussion.