Needs for next year

[Brandon]

35 minutes ago, JCon said:

 

The biggest knock on Srteveler is that he can't hit receivers. I'm sure he'll develop but he's still a long ways away from being a starter. 

We make a judgement based on one throw?     I found Streveler much more accurate in his throws,  my only gripe would be him depending on scrambling a little to much.  

If we are comparing accuracy on throws of more then 5 yards then I would suggest Nichols would be the one with much more issues hitting a receiver in stride.   

[Bigblue204]

I've never heard anyone say he isnt an accurate Qb...I dont see how anyone who has watched his body of work in the CFL could say that. Unless you just watch one specific play.

[Booch]

Actually...the times he actually struggled and the offense bogged down a bit was when Streveler seemed reluctant to run, or was told to keep looking for the pass...not sure which it was but were many instances where he could and should have took off...but didn't....They just need to let him play his game...and let the plays develop as they may...stop harnessing his runs.

Do this...and the pass opens right up as guys will cheat and drop off all the time because it is already known he is a beast to bring down, and also once..or if he gets to the second level he is gone for huge gains as he is very fast and hits top speed in an instant...check out some of his college runs...unreal

[Mike]

16 hours ago, J5V said:

Okay, I'll bite. First, how many Derel Walker-type receivers has this regime signed in the last 6 years, because you're talking like we do it all the time. Second, even if we did sign a Derel Walker-type, what good would it do? He would never play (see Simonise, Petermann, Washington, Thompkins, etc.).

What?

[JCon]

Really? Streveler was at 63% completion percentage for the first three games, then only 56% for the rest of the season. 

For me, right now, Streveler not hitting the receivers is the biggest concern I have with him. 

 

I see Streveler starting for us in 2020, regularly, if he continues to develop but not before that (barring injury to Nichols). 

[17to85]

Streveler and Nichols are both iffy at the deep passes right now. I like Streveler and his tool set a hell of a lot, but until such time as he 100% surpasses Nichols on the depth chart you don't throw out your proven starter who has won more games here than anyone since who? Khari? 

That's just asking to go back to being a **** team. 

[Booch]

exactly...you keep Nichols for next year as Streveler develops...even if Strev beats him out as the starter...case closed...2020 is the year the tuogh decisions need to occur

[Mike]

12 minutes ago, JCon said:

Really? Streveler was at 63% completion percentage for the first three games, then only 56% for the rest of the season. 

For me, right now, Streveler not hitting the receivers is the biggest concern I have with him. 

 

I see Streveler starting for us in 2020, regularly, if he continues to develop but not before that (barring injury to Nichols). 

You might want to recheck your numbers there. 

[Fatty Liver]

3 minutes ago, Booch said:

exactly...you keep Nichols for next year as Streveler develops...even if Strev beats him out as the starter...case closed...2020 is the year the tuogh decisions need to occur

I can't see why Nichols won't come in and lead the team to at least another 10 win season next year, making that decision all the more difficult.  I'm not sure Streveller's current playing style is sustainable, not since early Reilly have we seen a QB that runs so recklessly and we've witnessed the transition Reilly had to make to his game in order to stay healthy.

[Booch]

yeah have no issues with Nichols sustaining what we have been doing...and with a full compliment on offense to work with, and continued style of this defense see no reason to regress...so working in Streveler as we go has to be the course we take...unless he comes in at TC and just flat out wins it...though he plays a very physical style...he also is built to play it too...not your pro-typical QB body type.

Also, with reps and experience all young QB's eventually tone that part of their games down, as the game slows down for them...so I'm not too worried about Streveler getting beat up game in and game out..a lot of the time he is inflicting the contact...as opposed to absorbing it...though lots of hard contact is not optimal...there is an actual..and big difference on how the contact is made

[Bigblue204]

55 minutes ago, JCon said:

Really? Streveler was at 63% completion percentage for the first three games, then only 56% for the rest of the season. 

For me, right now, Streveler not hitting the receivers is the biggest concern I have with him. 

 

I see Streveler starting for us in 2020, regularly, if he continues to develop but not before that (barring injury to Nichols). 

lol So what these stats show (if correct) is that he is more accurate when he gets more playing time or is starting than he is coming off the bench....thank you for proving everyones point! 

[JCon]

22 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

lol So what these stats show (if correct) is that he is more accurate when he gets more playing time or is starting than he is coming off the bench....thank you for proving everyones point! 

I would say as soon as the defenses adjusted to him and his style, he struggled more. 

[JCon]

1 hour ago, Mike said:

You might want to recheck your numbers there. 

I got them from CFL.ca

This is what I'm looking at:

Date	Game	Opponent	Completions	Attempts
Jun-14	1	EDM	15	28
Jun-22	2	MTL	22	28
Jun-29	3	HAM	17	30
Games 1 to 3			54	86	63%
07-Jul	4	BC	3	5
Jul-27	7	TOR	1	1
Aug-17	10	OTT	4	5
Aug-25	11	CGY	1	1
09-Feb	12	SSK	1	1
09-Aug	13	SSK	10	20
10-May	17	OTT	0	1
Oct-13	18	SSK	3	5
11-Mar	21	EDM	9	15
11-Nov	22	SSK	0	2
Nov-18	23	CGY	0	1
The rest including playoffs			32	57	56%
Total			86	143	60%

[Bigblue204]

52 minutes ago, JCon said:

I would say as soon as the defenses adjusted to him and his style, he struggled more. 

lol. Ok...but you can't accurately compare how defences play him when he is starting vs coming off the bench for a play or two. That's just bad science. It is far more accurate to say he is better as a sStarter then off the bench. (based on those stats) Then to say what you're claiming. There's no way of knowing how the D adjusted to him coming off the bench compared to how they played Nichols. We can assume, but still no solid evidence. The only thing those numbers show for sure, is he was more accurate in games he started, then games he didn't.

[AKAChip]

19 hours ago, J5V said:

Okay, I'll bite. First, how many Derel Walker-type receivers has this regime signed in the last 6 years, because you're talking like we do it all the time. Second, even if we did sign a Derel Walker-type, what good would it do? He would never play (see Simonise, Petermann, Washington, Thompkins, etc.).

Petermann isn’t a Walker type and he’s a rookie who actually got a fairly good shot with the offence this year. Thompkins played tons, he just rarely got the ball and isn’t very good to begin with. Washington is trash. These are bad comparisons. 

[Bigblue204]

20 minutes ago, AKAChip said:

Petermann isn’t a Walker type and he’s a rookie who actually got a fairly good shot with the offence this year. Thompkins played tons, he just rarely got the ball and isn’t very good to begin with. Washington is trash. These are bad comparisons. 

My favorite part is how all his examples got playing time. My 2nd favorite part is how he is comparing playing time of an All star Vet and Rookies.

Edited November 29, 2018 by Bigblue204

[trueBlue83]

4 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

Nichols missed a wide open Adams on a designed and practiced play in the same game, when it mattered most. He's got 6 years more experience, was warmed up, wasn't throwing his first pass of the day or his first pass in a playoff game. Gotta hold the vet to a higher standard than the rookie.

can use the excuse of the wind when it's Nichols, but Streveler misses the pass and it's because he's not accurate.   Give me a freaking break.  Coming off the bench cold, throwing his first pass of the day in breezy conditions... how are you supposed to have perfect feel.  And he just missed that pass by a stride.

As far as whoever said we should trade Nichols... once a TO or MTL catch wind that he's being shopped around, why would they pony up much at all?  If the Bombers are considering moving him, it's cap related and they'd be likely to cut him anyways.   Can't see anyone giving up anything substantial to get him.  What did we get him for, a 7th round pick?   We would get maybe a 4th rounder at best, and probably be asked to retain some of the salary.  

[trueBlue83]

3 hours ago, JCon said:

I got them from CFL.ca

This is what I'm looking at:

Date	Game	Opponent	Completions	Attempts
Jun-14	1	EDM	15	28
Jun-22	2	MTL	22	28
Jun-29	3	HAM	17	30
Games 1 to 3			54	86	63%
07-Jul	4	BC	3	5
Jul-27	7	TOR	1	1
Aug-17	10	OTT	4	5
Aug-25	11	CGY	1	1
09-Feb	12	SSK	1	1
09-Aug	13	SSK	10	20
10-May	17	OTT	0	1
Oct-13	18	SSK	3	5
11-Mar	21	EDM	9	15
11-Nov	22	SSK	0	2
Nov-18	23	CGY	0	1
The rest including playoffs			32	57	56%
Total			86	143	60%

if we're looking at numbers... the one I'd like to point out is, when the cards were on the table, and it counted most:  46.9% & 156.  80+ of which we're in the last couple drives when they finally tried to go downfield.

Nichols has been playing the dink & dunk since 2016, and his stats have largely been propped up on the shoulders of Andrew Harris.  No other QB in the league relies so heavily on their RB as a receiver, and once the league adjusted and started spying Harris, Nichols passing production tanked.  The fact that people want to point at the winning record of the team and say keep Nichols because of it, to me, aren't really seeing the big picture.  Nichols has operated a dumbed down offence that's built around Harris.   A more mobile QB with a stronger arm opens up what LaPo can scheme, and I think that's what needs to happen next year.  If Nichols can't operate a more wide open offence, then he's not the guy.

[17to85]

17 minutes ago, trueBlue83 said:

if we're looking at numbers... the one I'd like to point out is, when the cards were on the table, and it counted most:  46.9% & 156.  80+ of which we're in the last couple drives when they finally tried to go downfield.

Nichols has been playing the dink & dunk since 2016, and his stats have largely been propped up on the shoulders of Andrew Harris.  No other QB in the league relies so heavily on their RB as a receiver, and once the league adjusted and started spying Harris, Nichols passing production tanked.  The fact that people want to point at the winning record of the team and say keep Nichols because of it, to me, aren't really seeing the big picture.  Nichols has operated a dumbed down offence that's built around Harris.   A more mobile QB with a stronger arm opens up what LaPo can scheme, and I think that's what needs to happen next year.  If Nichols can't operate a more wide open offence, then he's not the guy.

As long as we have lapo and Harris the offense will run through Harris as option 1, 2 and 3. No matter who is at qb.

[JCon]

13 minutes ago, trueBlue83 said:

if we're looking at numbers... the one I'd like to point out is, when the cards were on the table, and it counted most:  46.9% & 156.  80+ of which we're in the last couple drives when they finally tried to go downfield.

Nichols has been playing the dink & dunk since 2016, and his stats have largely been propped up on the shoulders of Andrew Harris.  No other QB in the league relies so heavily on their RB as a receiver, and once the league adjusted and started spying Harris, Nichols passing production tanked.  The fact that people want to point at the winning record of the team and say keep Nichols because of it, to me, aren't really seeing the big picture.  Nichols has operated a dumbed down offence that's built around Harris.   A more mobile QB with a stronger arm opens up what LaPo can scheme, and I think that's what needs to happen next year.  If Nichols can't operate a more wide open offence, then he's not the guy.

There is a strong contingent here who want to hand the keys to Streveler right now. I think that's crazy. He's got the tools but he needs to develop. 

Nichols may not be spectacular but he wins games now. I have no problems with him relying on Harris to carry and catch out of the backfield. When Harris is involved, we tend to do better. 

If Streveler is our best QB in camp or anytime during the season next year, then he should start. But, let's not project our hopes onto the reality that is Streveler today. 

What happened to the offense we saw in Saskatchewan? It worked, moving the ball around, changing the looks and getting Stev involved. It seemed to be completely abandoned in Calgary. I think that was game planning and not necessarily on Nichols' limitations. 

I think we're going to have a new OC and therefore a new scheme. 

[Colin Unger]

On 2018-11-23 at 9:51 AM, WBBFanWest said:

If we offer 250k and BC offers 200K he might sign with us.  Or... he might decide that 50k is not worth it and take the lower offer because maybe he sees things differently than you do.  As weird as this sounds to a lot of people, it's not always about the money.

The biggest advantage Winnipeg has is we can build our cap around his contract. BC most likely tries to build their cap around Mike Reilly and will have to offer Bighill money from whatever is left over in late Feb.  I also wouldn’t be surprised if BC wants to go with Herdman and spend money elsewhere. 

[Colin Unger]

25 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

As long as we have lapo and Harris the offense will run through Harris as option 1, 2 and 3. No matter who is at qb.

I’m not convinced. Lapo builds the offence around the players he has. Both Khari Jones and Darian Durant put up massive passing numbers under Lapo.  When your receivers are sub par and Nichols with a knee brace is your qb you have to take a different strategy to maximize wins.  I’m hoping for an upgraded receiving core and Nichols can return to 2017 level of mobility when he averaged 7.2 yards per carry. 

[trueBlue83]

34 minutes ago, JCon said:

Nichols may not be spectacular but he wins games now. I have no problems with him relying on Harris to carry and catch out of the backfield. When Harris is involved, we tend to do better. 

I still believe our record would have been no different had Streveler played all season.   Nichols didn't win 10 games this season, the team did.   Some, they won in spite of Nichols efforts.

Fact remains that he only played 2 relatively solid games all season.   When you're hoping he has a good game, but the percentages say he more likely won't, then you've got a problem.   Averaging 220 yards passing per game isn't going to get us to the next level when there's even more focus on the running game next season.

[Jpan85]

Think Nichols gets back to his 2017 level. Really believe he can throw for 5000 yards 30 TDs if he is healthy for the full season.

[17to85]

26 minutes ago, Colin Unger said:

I’m not convinced. Lapo builds the offence around the players he has. Both Khari Jones and Darian Durant put up massive passing numbers under Lapo.  When your receivers are sub par and Nichols with a knee brace is your qb you have to take a different strategy to maximize wins.  I’m hoping for an upgraded receiving core and Nichols can return to 2017 level of mobility when he averaged 7.2 yards per carry. 

Remember the grudge lapo had when he was head coach and mack didn't give him the players he wanted on offense? Remember when oshea hired him he said he was getting more say in the players he had on offense? You think we got guys like Harris and Dressler and Demski in here? Lapo is all about deep shots and short passes with lots of YAC. With khari ir was bombs to stegall and Bruce and dump offs to Roberts and Sellers. His offense looks very similar except he doesn't have a Stegall or even a Bruce now to save his ass. Nichols can throw intermediate passes just fine but we rarely use that part of the field. Lapo wants a big play or to let his athletes pick up yards with their legs.