Needs for next year

[HardCoreBlue]

What's interesting to me if indeed Nichols injury was more severe than the club was willing to share, is that they are saying an 70%-80% healthy Nichols puts us in a better position to win than a 100% healthy Streveler. Making the playoffs, winning west semi-final supports that argument?

 

[trueBlue83]

But threw for 3 TDs and added one on the ground and 98 yards rushing.

Nichols averaged 225 yards per game with just over 1 TD.   People can point to us being "run heavy". But Ottawa ran the ball just as much with Powell, and Harris averaged 300 a game.

Apparently the Argos are interviewing LaPo for the HC job, so maybe this whole conversation of scheme is thrown out the window in a week or two.

maybe a fresh set of eyes to assess the QBs is what we need this offseason rather than just saying "Matt has won us a lot of games".

[trueBlue83]

9 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

What's interesting to me if indeed Nichols injury was more severe than the club was willing to share, is that they are saying an 70%-80% healthy Nichols puts us in a better position to win than a 100% healthy Streveler. Making the playoffs, winning west semi-final supports that argument?

 

For anyone to suggest that we couldn't have beat the Riders in that game with even Bennett behind centre is nonsense.  Nichols did not "win the game".  He threw for just over 150 yards and handed the ball off.  Gotta wonder how Harris feels about Nichols potentially making twice his salary next season when all Matt does is ride his coat tails!

[SpeedFlex27]

On ‎2018‎-‎12‎-‎01 at 9:12 AM, trueBlue83 said:

For anyone to suggest that we couldn't have beat the Riders in that game with even Bennett behind centre is nonsense.  Nichols did not "win the game".  He threw for just over 150 yards and handed the ball off.  Gotta wonder how Harris feels about Nichols potentially making twice his salary next season when all Matt does is ride his coat tails!

Nichols didn't lose the game either. I also think Harris has been in the league long enough to know veteran CFL qbs make more money than starting running backs. Canadian or American. 

[Tracker]

9 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Nichols didn't lose the game either. I also think Harris has been in the league long enough to know veteran CFL qbs make more money than starting running backs. Canadian or American. 

In a game of that importance, your quarterback ought to be at least one of the stars, and Nichols was not. That is not good.

[SpeedFlex27]

5 hours ago, Tracker said:

In a game of that importance, your quarterback ought to be at least one of the stars, and Nichols was not. That is not good.

LaPo's system is designed for the qb to not be the stR. Dink & dunk. Controlled short to medium passes. Ball possession offense. 

[Tracker]

3 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

LaPo's system is designed for the qb to not be the star. Dink & dunk. Controlled short to medium passes. Ball possession offense. 

Is that not an assumption on your part? Or is LaPolice forced to tailor the offence around a mediocre quarterback and receivers who, as a group, do not scare many defensive coordinators?

[SpeedFlex27]

29 minutes ago, Tracker said:

Is that not an assumption on your part? Or is LaPolice forced to tailor the offence around a mediocre quarterback and receivers who, as a group, do not scare many defensive coordinators?

I don't think Nichols is mediocre.  He was dealing with a knee injury that probably bothered him all season.  Let's see how he does when he comes back healthy next training camp. 

[17to85]

1 hour ago, Tracker said:

Is that not an assumption on your part? Or is LaPolice forced to tailor the offence around a mediocre quarterback and receivers who, as a group, do not scare many defensive coordinators?

So apart from Khari, which offenses have we seen Lapo run here that weren't dink and dunk?

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I don't think Nichols is mediocre.  He was dealing with a knee injury that probably bothered him all season.  Let's see how he does when he comes back healthy next training camp. 

If this was predominantly a physical issue, then a week away during the bye week would not have produced the quantum improvement in play. Rather, it would have been a steady, gradual improvement. Moreover, his disastrous play during the two Rider games cannot be ascribed to physical causes. His decision-making was beyond poor. Ergo: the big owie was and maybe still is in his head.

[Mark H.]

37 minutes ago, Tracker said:

If this was predominantly a physical issue, then a week away during the bye week would not have produced the quantum improvement in play. Rather, it would have been a steady, gradual improvement. Moreover, his disastrous play during the two Rider games cannot be ascribed to physical causes. His decision-making was beyond poor. Ergo: the big owie was and maybe still is in his head.

Physical and mental are not mutually exclusive occurrences. 

[trueBlue83]

13 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I don't think Nichols is mediocre.  He was dealing with a knee injury that probably bothered him all season.  Let's see how he does when he comes back healthy next training camp. 

Ha.   If he was somewhat injured, it's because he rushed himself back in Week 4 with Streveler starting to pick up some steam, realizing that his spot could really come in to question.  BC was awful, and there was no reason for him to jump ahead of his recovery schedule if he wasn't truly ready.  This I believe was him telling the medical staff that he's ready to go, when he probably truly wasn't.   We had the softest portion of schedule in weeks 4-8, and I'm guessing Nichols wanted those easy W's next to his name and rushed back.   Streveler would have picked up wins in those games as well, and he knew it.  Probably would have put up better numbers too!

I agree with Tracker... the injury is between the ears.

Normally right after the season, wouldn't the team release details of a lingering injury that hampered one of their "star" players?  Seems to happen everywhere else.  Nothing has been said about a Nichols injury to this point, which must mean he was fine!??

[blue_gold_84]

Streveler was picking up steam going into week 4...?

His week 3 stat line: 17/30 (56.7%), 146 yards, 4.9 YPC.

Hilarious revisionist history. Only to be followed up with hopelessly rampant speculation (Streveler would've won those games, he'd have put up better numbers). LOL

[Mike]

If you ask me, it's both. 

People who think replacing Nichols with Streveler (which i am very in favour of, just not for this year) is going to mean a huge uptick in production are probably going to be disappointed.

That being said, people who think Nichols doesn't hamper us a little bit are also wrong, in my opinion. I feel like Nichols has some weaknesses that don't really lend themselves well to being hidden in a Paul LaPolice offence.

Streveler's ability to introduce an extra level of motion into our offence, along with his legs that are a weapon unlike anything Nichols has to offer, could be exactly what we need on offence. That being said, we also have no hope in hell if we go into next year with DA as our number 1 receiver. If it were up to me, I would go after two American receivers - one to replace Dressler's role and one to bump Darvin down the pecking order. Darvin is an awesome receiver, he's just not the #1 guy on a team that asks their #1 guy to essentially do it all himself. Pair him up with a Chris Matthews, Bryant Mitchell or a Greg Ellingson? Absolutely.

Dream scenario for me next year (and let's keep in mind I don't claim to believe we could come even remotely close to affording this under the cap without either a huge boost in the CBA or a deep cut somewhere else) would be to see us trot out Harris, Adams, Wolitarsky, Mitchell, Jalen Saunders and Simonise. Throw Adams and Simonise out wide, use Woli/Bryant/Saunders in the slot and you'd have the potential to be the most prolific offence in the league.

I think our best case scenario is signing one of Saunders/Mitchell. Sub out Diontae Spencer and Chris Matthews/Greg Ellingson if you want.

 

TL;DR we need some new ****ing receivers

 

[Booch]

24 minutes ago, Mike said:

If you ask me, it's both. 

People who think replacing Nichols with Streveler (which i am very in favour of, just not for this year) is going to mean a huge uptick in production are probably going to be disappointed.

That being said, people who think Nichols doesn't hamper us a little bit are also wrong, in my opinion. I feel like Nichols has some weaknesses that don't really lend themselves well to being hidden in a Paul LaPolice offence.

Streveler's ability to introduce an extra level of motion into our offence, along with his legs that are a weapon unlike anything Nichols has to offer, could be exactly what we need on offence. That being said, we also have no hope in hell if we go into next year with DA as our number 1 receiver. If it were up to me, I would go after two American receivers - one to replace Dressler's role and one to bump Darvin down the pecking order. Darvin is an awesome receiver, he's just not the #1 guy on a team that asks their #1 guy to essentially do it all himself. Pair him up with a Chris Matthews, Bryant Mitchell or a Greg Ellingson? Absolutely.

Dream scenario for me next year (and let's keep in mind I don't claim to believe we could come even remotely close to affording this under the cap without either a huge boost in the CBA or a deep cut somewhere else) would be to see us trot out Harris, Adams, Wolitarsky, Mitchell, Jalen Saunders and Simonise. Throw Adams and Simonise out wide, use Woli/Bryant/Saunders in the slot and you'd have the potential to be the most prolific offence in the league.

I think our best case scenario is signing one of Saunders/Mitchell. Sub out Diontae Spencer and Chris Matthews/Greg Ellingson if you want.

 

TL;DR we need some new ****ing receivers

 

Agreed...we need one true legit number one to allow Darvin to just be Darvin. What I love about Adams is his effort in the blocking game when he is not the prime target..and his willingness to drop his shoulder and bust out extra yards on pure will. Some of his blocks the last few years have been key to the success of the play...as well as devastating!

Be it a Mitchell..Mathews..whomever it would go a long way in making this offence very tough to defend. I agree on Woli inside...do that and you will see a 100 reception 1200-1300 yards a year guy consistently.

Simonese as well is a stud in the making...and just needs his chance and he will run with it..huge..HUGE upside and can be a total mismatch nightmare out on the boundary..I went to a lot of TC and practices this year and watched him a lot..he is the total package for a wide-out and if you didn't know it...you would think he was an Import brought in who just needs a bit of marinating..

Nichols now...he is somewhat hampered with what is called...but also hampers a lot of what can be called, and also by personnel...he is the classic QB who will get it done well with a great supporting cast...nothing spectacular but consistent and safe..but he is not a game breaker or a guy who can make things happen solely on his own, or make players better around him with his ability to do things that are super athletic, 

Streveler now is a different horse..he has the ability to make things happen and the mentality to push the limits...sometimes it will back fire...but generally it works...Ala Mike Reilly...he needs reps tho, and to see things develop/unfold in front of him in game time...not just on film..and with his smarts and study work...he will develop quickly...and herin lies the rub...if he shows he has taken another step in camp...do you say Fack it and roll with him for the first few games and see what he does with it, and have Nichols in the bull-pen?..you are paying the same SMS hit on your QB's next year regardless where they sit on the depth chart so what does it really matter? If Streveler falters a bit, you have Nichols coming back in as the starter with a huge chip on his shoulder and a fire in his belly to prove people wrong...To me it's win win..a season is never lost in the first 3 games of the year anyway

I recall when they first trotted Streveler out after Mini Camp practice to throw to some Bisons to see how he handled all the CFL type throws, and some accuracy tosses into the net before media or anyone was aware of who he was and why he was here to say the least was very impressed, and wondered where the heck the Bison's got this guy from..was tossing rail shots 45-50 yards with ease and nice crisp out passes from far hash marks...so his arm is no question mark whatsoever and with the right receivers downfield deep to make plays...with his running threat ..guys are gonna come free for him with coverage dropping off for fear of a run.

That all being said...I still think Bennett is the best overall package we have at QB..runs just as good as Streveler (not as punishing) and has the best arm in camp I think

[bearpants]

Anyone who wants to throw out Matt Nichols now must have a very short memory... Let me tell you about the story of a man named Kevin Glenn... hhe once patrolled the line of scrimmage for the Blue and Gold... while not the most prolific passer in the league, he produced wins and gave the team a chance... Then one day an intrepid young traveler by the name of Michael Kelly rolled into town and proclaimed "I possess the next great CFL QB and I will toss aside this productive, yet underwhelming, QB in his favour"... and then the Bombers proceeded to toil the deserted island of misfit QBs for the next 10 years... meanwhile this former "not good enough" QB continued to have success at every stop along the way...

Moral of the story... while I agree that Nichols may not be a superstar.... he is the best option we have had since Mr. Glenn and we should absolutely not get rid of him until we know, unequivocally, that we have a better QB ready to go...

[Booch]

2 minutes ago, bearpants said:

Anyone who wants to throw out Matt Nichols now must have a very short memory... Let me tell you about the story of a man named Kevin Glenn... hhe once patrolled the line of scrimmage for the Blue and Gold... while not the most prolific passer in the league, he produced wins and gave the team a chance... Then one day an intrepid young traveler by the name of Michael Kelly rolled into town and proclaimed "I possess the next great CFL QB and I will toss aside this productive, yet underwhelming, QB in his favour"... and then the Bombers proceeded to toil the deserted island of misfit QBs for the next 10 years... meanwhile this former "not good enough" QB continued to have success at every stop along the way...

Moral of the story... while I agree that Nichols may not be a superstar.... he is the best option we have had since Mr. Glenn and we should absolutely not get rid of him until we know, unequivocally, that we have a better QB ready to go...

No one says..well I don't say to throw him out, but allow TC to be the chance for Strveeler...Or Matt to prove they are NOT the best option as a starter, and keep the other as the back-up...and if Plan A fails...You have plan B 

To pull and idiotic move like Mike Kelley did, for sure I would hope have Miller can both Walters and oshea...

[Noeller]

Didn't @17to85get lit up on here for saying Darvin isn't a true #1 receiver and now everyone is bacially parroting that same idea? 

[bearpants]

7 minutes ago, Booch said:

No one says..well I don't say to throw him out, but allow TC to be the chance for Strveeler...Or Matt to prove they are NOT the best option as a starter, and keep the other as the back-up...and if Plan A fails...You have plan B 

To pull and idiotic move like Mike Kelley did, for sure I would hope have Miller can both Walters and oshea...

definitely not directed at you... those it is directed at know who they are... I am willing to discuss my point if they are interested...

[bearpants]

3 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Didn't @17to85get lit up on here for saying Darvin isn't a true #1 receiver and now everyone is bacially parroting that same idea? 

I have felt that way for a while too... my biggest reason is that he absolutely cannot win contested balls... they call them 50/50 shots.... Derel Walker wins them at a 90% rate... Darvin wins them at a 5% rate (that might be generous)...

[17to85]

14 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Didn't @17to85get lit up on here for saying Darvin isn't a true #1 receiver and now everyone is bacially parroting that same idea? 

[Jpan85]

27 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Didn't @17to85get lit up on here for saying Darvin isn't a true #1 receiver and now everyone is bacially parroting that same idea? 

No he said he was lazy and did not give enough effort which could be further from the truth. If he had had gotten 30-40 more balls thrown his way to match Williams targets he would of been only a few yards behind him.

[Noeller]

44 minutes ago, Jpan85 said:

No he said he was lazy and did not give enough effort which could be further from the truth. If he had had gotten 30-40 more balls thrown his way to match Williams targets he would of been only a few yards behind him.

Dude......

[17to85]

1 hour ago, Jpan85 said:

No he said he was lazy and did not give enough effort which could be further from the truth. If he had had gotten 30-40 more balls thrown his way to match Williams targets he would of been only a few yards behind him.

or you know you could look at all the other times I also said that he's not a #1 and things of that nature. 

Fact is that Adams sometimes dogs it. He coulda had a touchdown in the west final in Calgary if he hadn't stopped running. Fact is he's a great guy to have as your #3 receiver, probably OK as your #2 behind a real star, but if he's your best guy you ain't gonna be successful enough. 

[Booch]

but a team with 3 Darvin Adams' would be very successful in a receiving corp..hard to gauge value and production when you don't know what the scheme or calls are...he is a nice #1 but not a true game altering receiver, but pair him with one, and I bet you see his numbers really balloon...as he was a guy who was second in receipting touchdowns with 10...on a team that had a weak deep game, and sub par passing scheme...and also I believe led the league this year in 30+ yard plays believe it or not..so he isn't chopped liver by any means...just needs a stud running mate to open things up for him and Woli