This Regime

[Arnold_Palmer]

On 2018-11-20 at 10:58 AM, TBURGESS said:

We won less games this year than we did last year, even tho we had a better team on paper.

We didn't get a home playoff game.

We were 4th overall and 3rd in the West.

We played our best games during the stretch run, which hasn't happened for years.

We had one of, if not the, healthiest team going into the play offs. I'd guess, without checking, that we had the least number of man games lost to injury during the season.

We beat a Riders team who were forced to play their backup QB by 5 points in the semi and that backup QB missed 4 open receivers who were behind our defense.

We lost to a Stamps team with 4 injured starting receivers.

The progress has been painfully slow. It took 5 years to get a single playoff win, but that win saved MOS's job. Winnipeg Blue Bombers fans and management are happy with being a middle of the pack team that wins enough games to make it to the playoffs and who sometimes even wins a playoff game.

Middle of the pack team yet second most wins in the past three years? Get lost. 

[Bigblue204]

31 minutes ago, DR. CFL said:

Well we have consistently been unable to scout, sign FA or coach up WRs. Or a combination of all of those things while other teams ha managed to do that.Until that problem is solved this team will have to excel to get to the next level

What team are you watching? They've literally had other GM's comment on how many FA's they sign. Our Scouting has brought in plenty of quality players as well. You are right about the WR's though. I'll give you that one.

[DR. CFL]

I guess I wasn’t clear enough when I said WRs I was specifically speaking about WR.  So I am in fact talking about the Bombers.

[Mark F]

just noticed on twitter sidebar 

"Dave Dickensen says Stamps don't get enough respect"

 

I have never heard O'Shea whine about anything.

 

 

Edited November 21, 2018 by Mark F

[Bigblue204]

36 minutes ago, DR. CFL said:

I guess I wasn’t clear enough when I said WRs I was specifically speaking about WR.  So I am in fact talking about the Bombers.

Fair enough. I read it as all 3 being separate. Though, Adams and Dressler were FA signings. Wolli has been coached up. But I do agree agree with the overall message. They haven't found that game breaker.

[pigseye]

40 minutes ago, DR. CFL said:

I guess I wasn’t clear enough when I said WRs I was specifically speaking about WR.  So I am in fact talking about the Bombers.

We stick with what we got at most positions, not just receiver, the criticism is fair considering we don't try to upgrade at any position during the season. 

[Arnold_Palmer]

Adams, and our three young Canadian receivers is a good starting point. I would be ok moving on from Dressler and Demski. We need to sign another game breaking receiver and it’s importsnt to be able to recruit a game breaker this winter.

[Mark H.]

7 minutes ago, Arnold_Palmer said:

Adams, and our three young Canadian receivers is a good starting point. I would be ok moving on from Dressler and Demski. We need to sign another game breaking receiver and it’s importsnt to be able to recruit a game breaker this winter.

Our American offensive tackles are both going to be back - they'll need Demski for the ratio.  

[Arnold_Palmer]

Just now, Mark H. said:

Our American offensive tackles are both going to be back - they'll need Demski for the ratio.  

I like our young Canuck receivers. I’m not against Demski coming back but I’m thinking he’ll want a raise and there’s money better spent else where. 

[Brandon]

I'm ok with Demski and LaFrance walking and for us to bring back Augustine..

[JuranBoldenRules]

1 hour ago, Mark H. said:

Our American offensive tackles are both going to be back - they'll need Demski for the ratio.  

They don't need Demski.  There's Petermann, Simonise, other free agents and all their draft picks with an extra first rounder.

I think Demski only comes back if he takes a pay cut.

[JuranBoldenRules]

12 minutes ago, Brandon said:

I'm ok with Demski and LaFrance walking and for us to bring back Augustine..

I think we'll have better options than Augustine in the draft and free agency.  He's extremely one-dimensional.

[17to85]

Demski is a decent player, but man the way he always has to try and outrun everyone to the edge rather than cutting up inside is infuriating. Harris needs to take him under his wing and toughen him up if he's going to be worth a big pay day. 

[wbbfan]

3 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

HUH? Have you not seen the FA lists of every single team this year? Every team has a huge opportunity to improve their talent at basically every position.

Of course, I've seen it. But to get noticeably better talent wise would be a huge deal. It's going to be really hard to maintain the same caliber of team, little on add to it. A lot of our FAs are guys we need back. That doesn't leave much room to go out and add. 

Demski could well be poised for a raise, The OL, Medlock, jeffcoat, biggie, JSK is going to be bound for a good size raise, brandon alexander etc. I dont see any of those guys needing to take Less money. The likes of JSK, jeffcoat, biggie, alexander and the OL fa's are likely to be prime targets for other teams. Add onto that the possibility that we try to lock up streveler to an extension this off season to prevent him from hitting FA next year (which would be great) and its tough to see a lot of free cap space. 

[B-F-F-C]

3 hours ago, White Out said:

I have to be honest, Dickensons tantrum and the fact our staff has earned the nickname "Canadian Mafia" has really endeared me in a strange way to our current regime. There's no denying that they've built a strong culture and you'd think that success can't be far off. We won a playoff game this year, and in SSK no less. That was good. But we all need more. A lot more. Not just a Cup appearance either. This team needs a championship.

I thought it was "******* Canadians".   I don't buy Dickinson's explanation for 1 second.  He knew what he was saying and it had nothing to do with the talent level of our Nationals. 

 

[White Out]

6 minutes ago, B-F-F-C said:

I thought it was "******* Canadians".   I don't buy Dickinson's explanation for 1 second.  He knew what he was saying and it had nothing to do with the talent level of our Nationals. 

 

His nickname for our staff, apparently, is the Canadian Mafia. I say we own it and make it ours. 

[TBURGESS]

3 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

That's a fantastic arm chair QB way of looking at things. Both short sighted and ignorant. The "excuses" balance out over time. Wouldas/couldas/shouldas too. Completely irrelevant to both sides of the argument. You are right that most fans only want wins, playoff or otherwise. Which this regime has given them. More than most other regimes in recent memory. The other, I'd argue, almost more important aspect is the culture. I have no direct insight, but the rumors aren't a secret that WPG was at one time a last resort option for both players and coaches. Our past shows just how true those rumors could be. Now all reports show this has completely flipped. How many times during previous regimes did we hear about how great of a team/coaching staff/culture etc etc is here. I honestly can't recall hearing that as often as I have in the past two years. It's constantly talked about. That WILL and HAS brought players in. Players who have helped get the team to where it is.

Not winning the cup...which is one game...has as much to do with getting lucky as it does with being talented enough. Ask CGY. If it's used as the only measuring stick when looking at making serious changes, you will eventually end up with the mess the bombers are currently just getting out of. So sure, be smug and arrogant while you talk about how most fans/this regime only want one playoff win or regular season wins. It still won't change the facts, this team is one of the most successful in the CFL in damn near every category...I know, I know, except the only one that matters. But to be consistent, takes consistency. And with consistency both playoff and regular season wins will come.

When we were a bad team, it was hard to sign FA's, because we were a bad team. We had to 'overpay' to get good players, much like Montreal has to nowadays. Now that we're competitive we attract FA's. Walters opens his cheque book for FA's in part because our scouting isn't that good and in part because it's the fastest way to go from bad to competitive, which is where we are now. In any case, culture only takes you so far. In our case that equals 1 playoff win in 5 years.

Not winning a cup, isn't what I'm talking about. We haven't even made it to the cup because we haven't been good enough to even win a single playoff game until this year. I'd trade Calgary's record for ours every single year of the current regime. Losing the Grey Cup or the Western final is better than anything this regime has ever done. Success isn't measured in Stats. It's measured in wins, playoff wins and championships. This regime gets one out of three on that scale.

3 hours ago, Arnold_Palmer said:

Middle of the pack team yet second most wins in the past three years? Get lost. 

4th overall this year is middle of the pack no matter how you want to spin it.

 

Edited November 22, 2018 by TBURGESS

[Mark H.]

44 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

In any case, culture only takes you so far. In our case that equals 1 playoff win in 5 years.

And of course you include all five years in that analysis - making sound like its all about a better culture and that culture is a failure.

No consideration for the poor team and the bare cupboard this regime inherited.

[SpeedFlex27]

7 hours ago, Tracker said:

If I have over-reacted, I apologize, but this is a hot-button issue for me from a clinical point of view. In my practice, I have seen the effects of unresolved emotional trauma and how devastating it often is. 'Nuff said.

No worries. Not offended.

 

[TBURGESS]

12 hours ago, Mark H. said:

And of course you include all five years in that analysis - making sound like its all about a better culture and that culture is a failure.

No consideration for the poor team and the bare cupboard this regime inherited.

This regime has been in place for 5 years. They own the record, just ask MOS.

Fans in Bomberland are so happy with MOS that they ignore how many years he's been a HC and pump up the in season wins, that got us 2nd once, 3rd twice and one playoff win. They say that changing poorly performing HC's hasn't got us a Grey Cup in 28 years and ignore the fact that keeping HC's for 5 or more years hasn't brought us one either.

Is MOS the coach to take us from poor to competitive? Absolutely. Is he the coach to take us the next step to being a Grey Cup contender? Maybe, but how long will it take at the current rate of improvement? 5 years for a playoff win. 6? for a  Grey Cup berth. 7? for a win. More? Less?

[17to85]

9 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

Is he the coach to take us the next step to being a Grey Cup contender? Maybe, but how long will it take at the current rate of improvement? 5 years for a playoff win. 6? for a  Grey Cup berth. 7? for a win. More? Less?

He keeps putting up double digits in wins a season I'll give him a lot more time. 

He is flat out the best head coach this team has had since Dave Ritchie and he's done it with the safest most boring coordinators going. I got lots of patience for O'Shea cause these teams are fun teams to watch when for the better part of the last 20 years we've watched some absolute horseshit teams. 

[NorthernSkunk]

13 hours ago, White Out said:

His nickname for our staff, apparently, is the Canadian Mafia. I say we own it and make it ours. 

You might wanna go ask some of the actual mafia before horning in on their brand........ and I ain't too sure the Bombers marketing people will want to own it. 

[Booch]

35 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

He keeps putting up double digits in wins a season I'll give him a lot more time. 

He is flat out the best head coach this team has had since Dave Ritchie and he's done it with the safest most boring coordinators going. I got lots of patience for O'Shea cause these teams are fun teams to watch when for the better part of the last 20 years we've watched some absolute horseshit teams. 

Not to mention even a more horseshit management team and football operating environment...and culture...and most importantly perception of organization from around the league...light years away from that....that alone in my books gives them another year or 2...but Walters is the guy and to lesser extent his Asst GM's who have to produce this year and fix the last 2 remaining issues

[Bubba Zanetti]

17 hours ago, Mark F said:

just noticed on twitter sidebar 

"Dave Dickensen says Stamps don't get enough respect"

 

I have never heard O'Shea whine about anything.

 

 

Nice guys tend to finish....

Just saying. Look at all the successful coaches in football. Belichick, Don Matthews, Bud Grant, Buono, Landry, Noll, Shula, Parcells, Coughlin, etc. All hardasses. The huggy buddy buddy coaches don't often find success and tend to have very short shelf lives.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Bubba Zanetti

[TBURGESS]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

He keeps putting up double digits in wins a season I'll give him a lot more time. 

He is flat out the best head coach this team has had since Dave Ritchie and he's done it with the safest most boring coordinators going. I got lots of patience for O'Shea cause these teams are fun teams to watch when for the better part of the last 20 years we've watched some absolute horseshit teams. 

You keep comparing MOS to Richie so lets 'go there'.

Richie's first 5 years... 1 3rd, 2 seconds and a 1st. Made the playoffs 4 out of 5 years. 7 playoff games. Lost 4. 1st playoff win in year 2. One Grey Cup appearance.

MOS's first 5 years... 2 3rds, 1 2nd, 0 1st. Made the playoffs 3 out of 5 years. 4 Playoff games. Lost 3. First playoff win in year 5. Zero Grey Cup appearances.

Richie got a 6th year. His 2-5 start and being fired doesn't help your patience argument.