The MBB All-time Blue Bomber team: Mount Rushmore and the all-time Happy Honkers

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

My initial gut reaction says Ty Jones and Elfrid Payton outside, James West and Greg Battle inside, and there really is likely very little debate about that (no disrespect to others on the list - Aaron Brown was a stud in the middle and freed up Jones to pile up his gaudy numbers). Battle and Jones are locks, West pretty much too, despite some big names out there (West's personality elevates him above all others). Payton has obscenely great sack totals, but was that frustrating player who would get 3 sacks in a game but seemingly take most other plays off (by his own admission), so he might be one on the bubble. Surprisingly few all-stars from the linebackers as compared to d-linemen in Blue Bomber history. Adam Bighill's one great season here could arguably vault him into contention.

Payton was not a linebacker.

[SpeedFlex27]

The best linebackers we had were Greg Battle in the middle & West & Jones outside. Absolutely freaking dominant.  I think the best 3 starting linebackers together on any team & any time period in CFL history.

[SpeedFlex27]

Another beast was Phil Minnick, Played for the Bombers from 1965-70, 1972 & 73. Lost the entire 71 season recovering from a serious knee injury which shortened his playing career. He was a tough as nails MLB & played the same physical way as Adam Bighill did this season. Ib my mind, he was just as good as another famous MLB from the Stampeders, Wayne Harris. Easily the best player on the field defensively for both teams (except when the Bombers played Harris. Then it was a wash). When Minnick was lost for the 1971 season it was a huge loss.  He came back for the 1972 & 73 seasons but was moved outside as there was another great middle linebacker in Mickey Doyle who also was a dominant backer in the middle that had taken his place.

I'd like to nominate both Phil Minnick & Mickey Doyle as MLB's as they both deserve to be on that list.

Edited December 22, 2018 by SpeedFlex27

[TrueBlue4ever]

Re: Elfrid Payton position. He started his career as a linebacker, and in his first stint with the Blue Bombers was the team's rookie of the year in 1991 and in 1993 set a club record with 22 sacks (league leader as well) and was named a CFL all-star and east division defensive player of the year at the linebacker position. His second go-round with the club was in 2000, and this time he was a defensive lineman. Although he had much success elsewhere in his career as a d-lineman after switching to that new position (Montreal starting in 1996, Toronto in 2001 and Edmonton in 2002), his greatest contribution to the Bombers came as a linebacker, so I believe he is warranted at being placed in this position, since his achievements for other terms are not to be considered.

[TrueBlue4ever]

2 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

The best linebackers we had were Greg Battle in the middle & West & Jones outside. Absolutely freaking dominant.  I think the best 3 starting linebackers together on any team & any time period in CFL history.

West also spent time as an inside (middle) linebacker and was a CFL all-star there in 1987, and was also the Eastern division defensive player of the year. The following year he again was a divisional all-star as a middle linebacker. In 1989 he moved outside to accommodate Greg Battle moving into the middle linebacker spot, and West was a CFL all-star from the outside (Battle himself was a CFL all-star as an outside backer in 1990, but otherwise was a middle linebacker for the rest of his career, so he will be placed on the inside linebacker category).

I am inclined to place West inside for the nominations, but let me know if this will meet with resistance.

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Re: Elfrid Payton position. He started his career as a linebacker, and in his first stint with the Blue Bombers was the team's rookie of the year in 1991 and in 1993 set a club record with 22 sacks (league leader as well) and was named a CFL all-star and east division defensive player of the year at the linebacker position. His second go-round with the club was in 2000, and this time he was a defensive lineman. Although he had much success elsewhere in his career as a d-lineman after switching to that new position (Montreal starting in 1996, Toronto in 2001 and Edmonton in 2002), his greatest contribution to the Bombers came as a linebacker, so I believe he is warranted at being placed in this position, since his achievements for other terms are not to be considered.

I checked Payton's stats. He had 6 qb sacks in both 91 & 92 & 22 in 93. Was he still a linebacker or had he made the switch to DE by that time? I looked but I couldn't find the answer. I'm wondering if he had as players just don't usually go from MOR numbers to astronomical numbers playing the same position. 

[Mark H.]

22 sacks for a linebacker - that’s a crazy stat 

[SpeedFlex27]

Just now, Mark H. said:

22 sacks for a linebacker - that’s a crazy stat 

22 sacks is crazy at any position. 

[TrueBlue4ever]

2 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I checked Payton's stats. He had 6 qb sacks in both 91 & 92 & 22 in 93. Was he still a linebacker or had he made the switch to DE by that time? I looked but I couldn't find the answer. I'm wondering if he had as players just don't usually go from MOR numbers to astronomical numbers playing the same position. 

Payton was a CFL all star as a linebacker in 1993. 

[Dodge and Burn]

Charlie Clemons and Greg Clark should be in the conversation.  

[TrueBlue4ever]

So I need assistance placing some linebackers as inside or outside, so please fill in the blanks for me.

Right now, I have the following lists - 

Outside (this week's poll)

Elfrid Payton, Ty Jones, Rob McLaren,  Delbert Fowler, James West

Inside (next week)

Phil Minnick, Greg Battle, Barrin Simpson, Aaron Brown, Harry Walters, Mike Doyle, Dave Burkholder, Henoc Muamba, Paul Randolph

Unknown (help me place them)

Antonio Armstrong, Kyries Hebert, Charlie Clemons, Greg Clark, Maurice Kelly, KD Williams, Ike Charlton

 

Edited December 27, 2018 by TrueBlue4ever

[SpeedFlex27]

James West was primarily outside as he played with Greg Battle. He could play inside as he did with the Stamps before he came to the Bombers & did so on occassion but OLB is where he made his mark as a Bomber. West  will never be considered the all time MLB with the Bombers but may do so as an OLB. 

Phil Minnick was a MLB. One of the best. Due to a serious knee injury he was moved to the outside after he missed the entire 1971 season & was replaced by another outstanding MLB Mickey Doyle.  Minnick made his name as a MLB & not an OLB. he should be inside.  He wasn't the same player after his injury although he did play well. CFL did not keep tackling stats during his playing career.

Harry Walters was an outstanding MLB for the Bombers from 1975 thru the 78 season. Hard hitting linebacker who was an all star as I recall. He deserves to be on this list as a MLB.  He was a CFL West Division All Star in 1975 & 76. An All Canadian at MLB as well in 1976. He had 12 interceptions for 190 yards. The CFL did not keep tackling stats during that time which is a shame  but he was as I recall a tackling machine. 

[BBRT]

On 2018-12-21 at 4:51 PM, SpeedFlex27 said:

The best linebackers we had were Greg Battle in the middle & West & Jones outside. Absolutely freaking dominant.  I think the best 3 starting linebackers together on any team & any time period in CFL history.

I Agree 100% percent - man I loved watching them play!

[Mark H.]

On 2018-12-21 at 5:51 PM, SpeedFlex27 said:

The best linebackers we had were Greg Battle in the middle & West & Jones outside. Absolutely freaking dominant.  I think the best 3 starting linebackers together on any team & any time period in CFL history.

Remember the ads CJOB used to run with Ty Jones?

"Can you say blow out? I knew you could." 

[SpeedFlex27]

8 hours ago, BBRT said:

I Agree 100% percent - man I loved watching them play!

They were truly something to watch. Add in Less Browne & Rod Hill on the corners & well, what more can you say??? Total dominace. What a defense.

[Fatty Liver]

20 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

James West was primarily outside as he played with Greg Battle. He could play inside as he did with the Stamps before he came to the Bombers & did so on occassion but OLB is where he made his mark as a Bomber. West  will never be considered the all time MLB with the Bombers but may do so as an OLB. 

Phil Minnick was a MLB. One of the best. Due to a serious knee injury he was moved to the outside after he missed the entire 1971 season & was replaced by another outstanding MLB Mickey Doyle.  Minnick made his name as a MLB & not an OLB. he should be inside.  He wasn't the same player after his injury although he did play well. CFL did not keep tackling stats during his playing career.

Harry Walters was an outstanding MLB for the Bombers from 1975 thru the 78 season. Hard hitting linebacker who was an all star as I recall. He deserves to be on this list as a MLB.  He was a CFL West Division All Star in 1975 & 76. An All Canadian at MLB as well in 1976. He had 12 interceptions for 190 yards. The CFL did not keep tackling stats during that time which is a shame  but he was as I recall a tackling machine. 

Harry Walters and Brian Herosian made for a formidable combo covering the middle back in the mid-70's, seems like they were in on almost every tackle, both dominant players.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Throw Long Bannatyne

[TrueBlue4ever]

23 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

So I need assistance placing some linebackers as inside or outside, so please fill in the blanks for me.

Right now, I have the following lists - 

Outside (this week's poll)

Elfrid Payton, Ty Jones, Rob McLaren,  Delbert Fowler, James West

Inside (next week)

Phil Minnick, Greg Battle, Barrin Simpson, Aaron Brown, Harry Walters, Mike Doyle, Dave Burkholder, Henoc Muamba, Paul Randolph

Unknown (help me place them)

Antonio Armstrong, Kyries Hebert, Charlie Clemons, Greg Clark, Maurice Kelly, KD Williams, Ike Charlton

 

Still need to determine positions (inside or outside) for the bolded players. Assistance required.

[SpeedFlex27]

2 hours ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

Harry Walters and Brian Herosian made for a formidable combo covering the middle back in the mid-70's, seems like they were in on almost every tackle, both dominant players.

The Bruise Brothers. 

[SpeedFlex27]

KD Williams was inside as I recall. 

[Stats Junkie]

Based on depth charts and roster information that I have

OLB - Kyries Hebert (safety in '07), Charlie Clemons, Maurice Kelly (safety in '98 & '03), Ike Charlton

MLB - Greg Clark, K.D. Williams

unsure about Antonio Armstong. Brian Clark & Ryland Wickman were MLB which would likely make Armstong an OLB in '00. Armstrong played DE until Wickman was injured in '01. He may have filled in at MLB for the final few games that year.

 

[TrueBlue4ever]

22 hours ago, Stats Junkie said:

Based on depth charts and roster information that I have

OLB - Kyries Hebert (safety in '07), Charlie Clemons, Maurice Kelly (safety in '98 & '03), Ike Charlton

MLB - Greg Clark, K.D. Williams

unsure about Antonio Armstong. Brian Clark & Ryland Wickman were MLB which would likely make Armstong an OLB in '00. Armstrong played DE until Wickman was injured in '01. He may have filled in at MLB for the final few games that year.

 

I found video of the 2001 Grey Cup (ouch) that listed Armstrong as a middle linebacker, will place him there.

Thanks very much for the assistance.

Edited December 28, 2018 by TrueBlue4ever

[TrueBlue4ever]

OK, a few hours left in the voting, but I am calling it (as I could have 2 minutes after the poll, went up). Jones and West will be the all-timers at outside linebacker, crushing the rest of the field. The inside (middle) linebacker poll is now up, you have a week to decide who suits up beside Greg Battle. I will put out a list of defensive end nominees later tonight, but please submit any names you wish.

[SpeedFlex27]

7 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

OK, a few hours left in the voting, but I am calling it (as I could have 2 minutes after the poll, went up). Jones and West will be the all-timers at outside linebacker, crushing the rest of the field. The inside (middle) linebacker poll is now up, you have a week to decide who suits up beside Greg Battle. I will put out a list of defensive end nominees later tonight, but please submit any names you wish.

Tony Norman & Pete Catan. 

[TrueBlue4ever]

So some names to consider, the older ones are tricky as they are outside wing (playing both ways) so I stand to be corrected if they are in the wrong position. Same goes if I mis-identify a defensive tackle.

Jeff Nicklin, Bud Marquandt, Robert "Bud" Korchak, Bud Grant, Herb Gray, Bill Whisler, Jim Heighton, Pete Catan, Tony Norman,  Michael Gray, Loyd Lewis, Daved Benefield, Tom Canada, Gavin Walls, Philip Hunt, Odell Willis, Jamaal Westerman

This is an overly exhaustive list. Any player mentioned is listed simply because they received an all-star nod or team nomination at some point. Please feel free to say where you do not feel one is worthy of consideration, but try to explain your reasoning.

[TrueBlue4ever]

On ‎04‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 8:54 PM, TrueBlue4ever said:

So some names to consider, the older ones are tricky as they are outside wing (playing both ways) so I stand to be corrected if they are in the wrong position. Same goes if I mis-identify a defensive tackle.

Jeff Nicklin, Bud Marquandt, Robert "Bud" Korchak, Bud Grant, Herb Gray, Bill Whisler, Jim Heighton, Pete Catan, Tony Norman,  Michael Gray, Loyd Lewis, Daved Benefield, Tom Canada, Gavin Walls, Philip Hunt, Odell Willis, Jamaal Westerman

This is an overly exhaustive list. Any player mentioned is listed simply because they received an all-star nod or team nomination at some point. Please feel free to say where you do not feel one is worthy of consideration, but try to explain your reasoning.

The discussion on this has been strangely quiet. I really don't want to list 17 candidates. Anyone I missed, or more importantly, who would you pare off of this list?