The Gender Pay Gap

[kelownabomberfan]

40 minutes ago, pigseye said:

I agree with wiki

 

And I agree with Jordan Peterson. Who agrees with wiki. The tiny gap right at the top has to do with assertiveness and agreeability.

 

[kelownabomberfan]

52 minutes ago, Brandon said:

This is where I struggle to really believe any of this.  I never read any real life examples

Jordan Peterson talks in his videos about coaching lawyers at law firms to be more assertive.  And he's increased their pay substantially.  But he says it's not a gender thing. It's an agreeability thing. Agreeable men get paid less than assertive women in the same jobs too. Agreeability is much more of a pay inhibitor than gender.

In a unionized environment where seniority is everything and nothing else really matters, you wouldn't see a gap. Assertiveness is irrelevant.  Bob makes more because he's been working for 29 years. Or at least employed anyway.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

29 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Oh ok. So when you propose violence it should be "all in good fun", yet if I post a video the views of the person in the video reflect my entire character and who I am. Good grief that's so ridiculous I don't know where to start.

So the Mark Shouldice video was your attempt at humour? I apologize- I didn't pick up on that as being a joke- thought you were serious. My post was a cartoon- I thought was automatically grounds for discounting it as "good fun" and not to be taken seriously... 

 

31 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

That video shouldn't have been posted. My bad. Still think that no one wins when "throat punching" is presented as the main  response. There should be a middle ground.

Again... cartoon...

 

31 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

I didn't say that Mark Dice video questioned a societal truth. I said that this thread does that. The one questioning the existence of a gender pay gap. You are bright enough to have understood that.

Then don't include them in the same paragraph and no one is going to make that mistake. I am bright- just not a mind reader.

31 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

I don't understand how this is a "leftist position". To me it's a simple "yes" or "no". Politics be darned. But at least you admit that it's a leftist position, and not a reality.  I agree, this entire "gap" was invented by leftists, to make women feel like victims. Erroneously. 

Its vote-grabbing under completely false pretenses. It's part of the bigger definition of "social justice": the stubborn application of unworkable solutions to imaginary problems". As you have just stated, this is just a "leftist position", and a completely imaginary problem.  Unlike the gender age gap, where women live 4 years longer than men. THAT is real. Why don't leftists have a position on that? Because men make bad victims?

Sorry...Sorry... I should have wrote "PERCEIVED LEFTIST POSITION" damn- you are all over that one like a fat kid on a chocolate bar. 

 

36 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

And as sanctimonious as this statement is, all I can say is, same right back at you. Open your mind and start to question some of the lies you have swallowed wholesale. They will only just continue to control you and your entire life views if you don't. You can do it, you have the tools.

Sanctimonious? Dude, you are the one who started this whole thread, derailed it, and brought it back- and keep hammering the "non-existent" pay gap. I'm not sure what you want from this thread? To be convinced otherwise? To be reassured on your position? Convince others?

If you are looking to change your mind (Like you said you were open to)- then go ahead and do it yourself. No one else is going to change it for you.

[kelownabomberfan]

On 2019-01-29 at 4:44 PM, wanna-b-fanboy said:

 

Sanctimonious? Dude, you are the one who started this whole thread, derailed it, and brought it back- and keep hammering the "non-existent" pay gap. I'm not sure what you want from this thread? To be convinced otherwise? To be reassured on your position? Convince others?

I had always heard of this "gender pay gap" but had never seen it. No one I knew had ever seen it. Judging by the fact that no one is answering Brandon's challenges no one here has ever seen it either, though some doggedly want to believe that it exists. Almost like some sort of religious dogma.

Until I saw the video that I posted to start this thread, I hadn't really thought or cared much  because as I said I never really saw any proof that it existed. I wanted to hear what others thought of the video  and what th feminist was saying. Sadly it appears that no one watched it or had any comments, and no one is bothering to try and refute her comments either.

The pay gap exists, that's it. I just can't buy that. It's a really bold accusation, that seems to have little to no foundation, in North America or Europe anyway.

Quote

If you are looking to change your mind (Like you said you were open to)- then go ahead and do it yourself. No one else is going to change it for you.

But here's a question for you - if you believe that something is true, but have no basis whatsoever for your belief, other than what political parties you trust are telling you is true, wouldn't you want to be open to changing your mind, especially if you found out what you believe is a lie, fabricated to victimize a certain subset of voters? Doesn't it bother you to be used like that?

Edited February 1, 2019 by kelownabomberfan

[NorthernSkunk]

On 2019-01-25 at 11:41 AM, kelownabomberfan said:

"Combats GPG". By just complying with the law?

Unions are continually working towards equal, better, and fair wages for all.........

[kelownabomberfan]

46 minutes ago, NorthernSkunk said:

Unions are continually working towards equal, better, and fair wages for all.........

Lol. You sound like a true kool-aid drinker. From what I have seen here in BC what they are really working for is for their own betterment and self-perpetuation, and the really bad ones like the BCTF are now full-blown political organizations blathering on about supporting Palestinians instead of teachers and kids. But this is off topic.

If you read back you will see that unions wouldn't have any sort of gender pay gap as seniority is the only governing factor for pay. Merit is not rewarded,  and so it would be impossible for someone to argue that gender was the reason that they were being paid less for doing the same job.

Edited February 1, 2019 by kelownabomberfan

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

2 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Lol. From what I have seen here in BC what they are really working for is for their own growth and self-perpetuation, and the really bad ones like the BCTF are now full-blown political organizations blathering on about supporting Palestinians instead of teachers and kids. But this is off topic.

Unions are great and everyone should be apart of one. 

 

4 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

If you read back you will see that unions wouldn't have any sort of gender pay gap as seniority is the only governing factor for pay. Merit is not rewarded,  and so it would be impossible for someone to argue that gender was the reason that they were being paid for doing the same job.

So then... 

48 minutes ago, NorthernSkunk said:

Unions are continually working towards equal, better, and fair wages for all.........

 

[NorthernSkunk]

5 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Lol. You sound like a true kool-aid drinker. From what I have seen here in BC what they are really working for is for their own betterment and self-perpetuation, and the really bad ones like the BCTF are now full-blown political organizations blathering on about supporting Palestinians instead of teachers and kids. But this is off topic.

If you read back you will see that unions wouldn't have any sort of gender pay gap as seniority is the only governing factor for pay. Merit is not rewarded,  and so it would be impossible for someone to argue that gender was the reason that they were being paid less for doing the same job.

Honestly I don't give a Ratz azz.... I just stuck with the union gig cause I knew at 50 years of age I could do what I want while collecting a monthly pension along with some very good benefits.  

[kelownabomberfan]

1 hour ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Unions are great and everyone should be apart of one. 

 

So then... 

 

Lol. Everyone eh? Sorry but I've seen far too much to the contrary to ever agree with this statement.  Unions can be a good thing, or they can be parasitic and cause far more trouble than they are worth. Not a black and white issue.

[kelownabomberfan]

1 hour ago, NorthernSkunk said:

Honestly I don't give a Ratz azz.... I just stuck with the union gig cause I knew at 50 years of age I could do what I want while collecting a monthly pension along with some very good benefits.  

Exactly. 

[kelownabomberfan]

1 hour ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

 

 

1 hour ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

 

So then... 

 

Rewarding people purely for seniority and not for merit is the best way to lose good people and keep bad ones. This solves the non-existent pay gap issue I guess, but results in mediocrity rotting your business from within. As I said, seen this many times.

[NorthernSkunk]

We got bonus as well working underground which was outside the CBA and not available to surface workers.  An the harder/smarter you worked the more money you could make. 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

28 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Lol. Everyone eh? Sorry but I've seen far too much to the contrary to ever agree with this statement.  Unions can be a good thing, or they can be parasitic and cause far more trouble than they are worth. Not a black and white issue.

Yeah, everyone. Unions are awesome. Never any trouble.  

I've seen too many times that businesses would have done much better if they were unionized. Otherwise the business becomes parasitic and cause far more harm and pay way less than the equivalent if it was unionized. 

It is clearly black and white issue. 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

31 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

 

Rewarding people purely for seniority and not for merit is the best way to lose good people and keep bad ones. This solves the non-existent pay gap issue I guess, but results in mediocrity rotting your business from within. As I said, seen this many times.

Rewarding workers based on loyalty is awesome.  The reason it works is because you retain the good people and lose the bad people. So if you are a good employee, you are retained longer and therefore get paid more. 

It's good sense.  It makes no sense to break the bank for the real smart awesome employee that will just move on to the next highest bidder. 

Loyalty is awesome for work places an d businesses. 

 

 

[kelownabomberfan]

30 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Rewarding workers based on loyalty is awesome.  The reason it works is because you retain the good people and lose the bad people. So if you are a good employee, you are retained longer and therefore get paid more. 

It's good sense.  It makes no sense to break the bank for the real smart awesome employee that will just move on to the next highest bidder. 

Loyalty is awesome for work places an d businesses. 

 

 

Run your own business sometime and let me know how that works out for you. I am all for rewarding loyalty but in the unions case it's not even about that. In the real world you need more than just one criterion. Despite what the union propagandists say. 

[kelownabomberfan]

47 minutes ago, NorthernSkunk said:

We got bonus as well working underground which was outside the CBA and not available to surface workers.  An the harder/smarter you worked the more money you could make. 

Sounds good. How much was related to the union vs how much was related to the company needing you? And more on topic - were you making more than women doing the same work?

[kelownabomberfan]

39 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Yeah, everyone. Unions are awesome. Never any trouble.  

Lol. This is just hogwash. You think doctors and lawyers should unionize? They would never do that. Its ridiculous. 

39 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

I've seen too many times that businesses would have done much better if they were unionized.

Like the gender pay gap, I have never seen this. I have seen businesses go under after unionizing. Many times.

39 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

 

 

 

Otherwise the business becomes parasitic and cause far more harm and pay way less than the equivalent if it was unionized. 

It is clearly black and white issue. 

It clearly is not a black and white issue. I've seen many companies certify and then de-certify after unionizing and realizing that they were lied to, and all they had after unionizing was a parasitic union sucking dues off their cheques. I am not saying that unions don't have their place in certain circumstances, but now with all of the employment laws in place, paying union dues to a union that does nothing is passe. The union is going the way of the dinosaur.

[NorthernSkunk]

30 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Sounds good. How much was related to the union vs how much was related to the company needing you? And more on topic - were you making more than women doing the same work?

Hmmm.... I know the company liked me....and I did piss the union off more than once,  even though they would hound me to get more involved in the union.....so I'm not sure who 'needed' me more..... once a company is over 2000 people,  I think we all just become a number to both sides.  And no,  any woman that made it underground made the same as the guys if they did their work.  I will say though that my wife worked her way up in the company on the staff side,  and by the end she was making more than I was once I stopped mining and went back to surface work. 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

56 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Run your own business sometime and let me know how that works out for you. I am all for rewarding loyalty but in the unions case it's not even about that. In the real world you need more than just one criterion. Despite what the union propagandists say. 

Propagandist? Parasite? Your incendiary language and the tone of your posts show no desire to have a discourse. You're right You changed my mind- unions suck. 

 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

54 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Lol. This is just hogwash. You think doctors and lawyers should unionize? They would never do that. Its ridiculous. 

It's not hogwash.

I don't see why they shouldn't.

I don't see why they wouldn't.

It's not ridiculous- it makes perfect sense. 

 

55 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Like the gender pay gap, I have never seen this. I have seen businesses go under after unionizing. Many times.

Bad businesses usually are on their way to failing and the workers usually try to save the company by unionizing- which helps keep the company together for longer than they would have if they didn't unionize. I have seen this many times. Businesses failing is not because of unions, it's because of bad business.

 

56 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

It clearly is not a black and white issue. I've seen many companies certify and then de-certify after unionizing and realizing that they were lied to, and all they had after unionizing was a parasitic union sucking dues off their cheques. I am not saying that unions don't have their place in certain circumstances, but now with all of the employment laws in place, paying union dues to a union that does nothing is passe. The union is going the way of the dinosaur.

It is absolutely a black and white issue. I have seen unions save companies and forge stronger work ethic and boost productivity in the employees and in turn increase profits. Many times. 

And yes, if one is paying union dues to to a union that does nothing- then yeah, get another union. Why would anyone pay for a product or service that does nothing or have any value- that is just bad business sense. 

[Goalie]

On 2019-01-17 at 7:57 AM, Mark H. said:

In order to be 100% convinced about that, you would need to know whether there are female applicants for those jobs. In the fields I was referring to, there are. 

For sure.. But do u hire the woman cuz she has a uterus eventho the man is more qualified? My dad hires ppl for the Manitoba Govt... Trust me when i say this... He's told to hire the less qualified minority and it 100 percent pisses him off.. Heres the deal now.. Penis? ******? Irrelevant.. But the color of the penis or ****** certainly matters

 

Lol at it starring out the proper term for the womens privates. 

Edited February 1, 2019 by Goalie

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

19 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Lol at it starring out the proper term for the womens privates, Yet male one is uncensored...

The more pressing matter is censorship inequality gap....

[Mark H.]

3 hours ago, Goalie said:

For sure.. But do u hire the woman cuz she has a uterus eventho the man is more qualified? My dad hires ppl for the Manitoba Govt... Trust me when i say this... He's told to hire the less qualified minority and it 100 percent pisses him off.. Heres the deal now.. Penis? ******? Irrelevant.. But the color of the penis or ****** certainly matters

Lol at it starring out the proper term for the womens privates. 

This is weird in several ways - but okay. 

[kelownabomberfan]

4 hours ago, NorthernSkunk said:

Hmmm.... I know the company liked me....and I did piss the union off more than once,  even though they would hound me to get more involved in the union.....so I'm not sure who 'needed' me more..... once a company is over 2000 people,  I think we all just become a number to both sides.  And no,  any woman that made it underground made the same as the guys if they did their work.  I will say though that my wife worked her way up in the company on the staff side,  and by the end she was making more than I was once I stopped mining and went back to surface work. 

Thanks for that. I figured as much regarding the gender pay gap but thanks for confirming. 

Edited February 1, 2019 by kelownabomberfan

[kelownabomberfan]

9 hours ago, NorthernSkunk said:

Unions are continually working towards equal, better, and fair wages for all.........

Mark/mods:

Is it possible to hive off this union stuff and put it in a separate thread? Just curious.  Thanks.