Justin Goltz

[17to85]

Goltz was not good, looked very tentative and would hold onto the ball rather than making a throw or trying too much to tuck and run. That being said Hall wasn't much better. Lot of throws into coverage and the receivers aren't going to make all the catches for him. At least he would release the ball when the pressure came though. All around terrible game by the bombers offense, getting pretty tired of having to say that. 

[billfrank]

Hall keeps taking flack for pushing the ball into tight coverage. He was down by over 2 touchdowns, his receivers were not getting wide open, and he was being pressured on virtually every play. His choice was often to eat the ball or take a chance that his receiver would make a play. I'm not defending every pass or decision, but this needs to be factored in. I'd rather he did this, and actually try to put points on the board to win the game, than play it safe to try and keep the score respectable.

[Logan007]

Unless we're going to spend some money on a QB coach, trying out all these newbies is a waste of time.  They may as well just grab someone who's proven.  You can't expect these young guys to grow without someone teaching them what they're doing right and what they're doing wrong and how to correct their mistakes.

[voodoochylde]

Said this in the game day chat yesterday .. we have the most raw group of QBs on our roster yet no single person dedicated to coaching up that position .. we want to develop a QB for the future .. surround that person with resources to be successful.

[OldSchoolBlue]

And an Oline. Don't forget a bout the oline.

[Floyd]

Wonder if we got Parenteau because he's glass...  Still, I will take a 3rd for Woodson and a 5th...

 

Too bad we didn't go after Kyle Koch as well - who else is out there right now?  Can't really think of anyone we can bring in...  too bad we cut Brendan Dunn, at lest he knew the system (whatever our system is...)

 

And, what's up with Andre Douglas anyway...???

[iso_55]

Amazing how people are now waking up saying we need a qb coach. Been saying that for awhile now here & on the other site. Burke didn't want a qb coach. He hired another offensive coach but it wasn't to coach qbs. What did I hear instead but why did we need one when we had Gary Crowton??? Just ridiculous.

[Blueandgold]

We could blame injuries to the OL... but I actually thought we played better with Thomas and Pencer on the right side, ha.

So did I actually, Thomas fought hard out there.Whats with all the Max Hall love? He wasn't any better than Goltz. Burke is the one who said he expected Goltz & Hall to be better than Elliot and Brink this year. Well it looks that couldn't be any less true.

[Brandon]

 

We could blame injuries to the OL... but I actually thought we played better with Thomas and Pencer on the right side, ha.

So did I actually, Thomas fought hard out there.Whats with all the Max Hall love? He wasn't any better than Goltz. Burke is the one who said he expected Goltz & Hall to be better than Elliot and Brink this year. Well it looks that couldn't be any less true.

 

 

I don't see Max Hall love, but proof is in the stats....  Goltz had 54 with nearly half of them gained by a fantastic catch by Kelly.    Hall had triple the production.....  Goltz had 15 yards in a half last week.....     it's no love its simple that despite Hall not being lights out... clearly he could move the ball better then Goltz.

[pigseye]

 

We could blame injuries to the OL... but I actually thought we played better with Thomas and Pencer on the right side, ha.

So did I actually, Thomas fought hard out there.Whats with all the Max Hall love? He wasn't any better than Goltz. Burke is the one who said he expected Goltz & Hall to be better than Elliot and Brink this year. Well it looks that couldn't be any less true.

 

 

Thomas didn't embarrass himself because he has quicker feet than our olinemen. I have never seen such an assembly of olinemen with concrete shoes, the scouting on these guys must have been non-existent, if an olinemen can't move his feet then he is going to fail at the professional level.

[Armchair GM]

Goltz is the classic case of the bad side of the tools vs. poise argument.  He has all the tools... big arm, fast legs, elusiveness... but lacks the poise that all good QB's usually have... the quick release, the ability to read a defense, to audible to a quick hitter on a blitz.  Painful to watch Edmonton show blitz, and Goltz hang in there with a 5 or 7 step drop turning into a scramble and sack for a loss. 

 

Hall right now is the bad side of the poise argument though.  His ability to read a defense is better, and he has that quick release.  But our line isn't good enough to protect him enough in the pocket, and he lacks the mobility and ability to make throws on the run.  And our playcalling/offense (not sure which one is more responsible for this) hasn't caught on to how to setup a good screen to audible to on an all-out blitz.

 

It's really a very low risk proposition for opposing D's.  Blitz on Goltz, and there's a good chance he'll try to make something out of nothing and take a sack or throw out of bounds.  Blitz on Hall and there' s a good chance he won't have the mobility to get away or the time to find a receiver.  Sad to say, Joey Elliott is the best QB prospect we've had here in a long time.  He was flawed for sure, but he was at least progressing, and capable of moving the offense.  What we have now... might not be capable of being a #2 backup anywhere else in the CFL.

[17to85]

 

 

We could blame injuries to the OL... but I actually thought we played better with Thomas and Pencer on the right side, ha.

So did I actually, Thomas fought hard out there.Whats with all the Max Hall love? He wasn't any better than Goltz. Burke is the one who said he expected Goltz & Hall to be better than Elliot and Brink this year. Well it looks that couldn't be any less true.

 

 

I don't see Max Hall love, but proof is in the stats....  Goltz had 54 with nearly half of them gained by a fantastic catch by Kelly.    Hall had triple the production.....  Goltz had 15 yards in a half last week.....     it's no love its simple that despite Hall not being lights out... clearly he could move the ball better then Goltz.

 

however how many yards did Hall get on that fluke pass that Edwards was able to pull out of a dbs arms? Hall was throwing a lot of passes up for dbs to make a play on, is that better or worse than a qb taking a sack? You decide. Neither one dealt with the pressure well. Goltz was hesitating to throw trying to use his legs to get out of trouble, Edmonton played to take that option away from him, Hall can't run so he threw the ball before the pressure got there and as a result there were a lot of balls up for grabs. Either one plays like that again there won't be any winning for this team. 

[Jpan85]

The things about what you guys are calling fluke passes if anyone other quarterback Ray Burris or Durant throw that same pass, its putting it up and allowing your receiver to make a play. Since he does not have experience its fluke passes. At least Hall is getting the ball out to the receivers and so they can make plays.

[Fraser]

The things about what you guys are calling fluke passes if anyone other quarterback Ray Burris or Durant throw that same pass, its putting it up and allowing your receiver to make a play. Since he does not have experience its fluke passes. At least Hall is getting the ball out to the receivers and so they can make plays.

 

I thought he did a nice job of standing in the pocket and make passes while it collapsed around him.

[voodoochylde]

 

The things about what you guys are calling fluke passes if anyone other quarterback Ray Burris or Durant throw that same pass, its putting it up and allowing your receiver to make a play. Since he does not have experience its fluke passes. At least Hall is getting the ball out to the receivers and so they can make plays.

 

I thought he did a nice job of standing in the pocket and make passes while it collapsed around him.

 

 

 

Like the poise in the face of heat .. like the quick release .. question the arm strength, some of his mechanics and (if he's playing behind our line) .. the ability to stay healthy.

[OldSchoolBlue]

The things about what you guys are calling fluke passes if anyone other quarterback Ray Burris or Durant throw that same pass, its putting it up and allowing your receiver to make a play. Since he does not have experience its fluke passes. At least Hall is getting the ball out to the receivers and so they can make plays.

 

Nonsense. There's a difference between putting the ball up in a place where your receiver has an advantage, and just throwing it into a crowd. It's called good quarterbacking.

[blitzmore]

Goltz is the classic case of the bad side of the tools vs. poise argument.  He has all the tools... big arm, fast legs, elusiveness... but lacks the poise that all good QB's usually have... the quick release, the ability to read a defense, to audible to a quick hitter on a blitz.  Painful to watch Edmonton show blitz, and Goltz hang in there with a 5 or 7 step drop turning into a scramble and sack for a loss. 

 

Hall right now is the bad side of the poise argument though.  His ability to read a defense is better, and he has that quick release.  But our line isn't good enough to protect him enough in the pocket, and he lacks the mobility and ability to make throws on the run.  And our playcalling/offense (not sure which one is more responsible for this) hasn't caught on to how to setup a good screen to audible to on an all-out blitz.

 

It's really a very low risk proposition for opposing D's.  Blitz on Goltz, and there's a good chance he'll try to make something out of nothing and take a sack or throw out of bounds.  Blitz on Hall and there' s a good chance he won't have the mobility to get away or the time to find a receiver.  Sad to say, Joey Elliott is the best QB prospect we've had here in a long time.  He was flawed for sure, but he was at least progressing, and capable of moving the offense.  What we have now... might not be capable of being a #2 backup anywhere else in the CFL.

I can agree with your assessment except for one thing..Goltz is not elusive. He's like a train, once he gets the speed up he is fast. Watch Collaros, Durant, Tate, even Reilly...that' elusive! Goltz is not even close in that department.

[robynjt]

Amazing how people are now waking up saying we need a qb coach. Been saying that for awhile now here & on the other site. Burke didn't want a qb coach. He hired another offensive coach but it wasn't to coach qbs. What did I hear instead but why did we need one when we had Gary Crowton??? Just ridiculous.

 

I am almost positive not a single person thought a QB coach would be a BAD thing - and Crowton was NEVER a QB specialist.  Who would be that stupid?  Come on now, don't try and twist things to act all high and mighty now all of our "they have potential" guys aren't showing any..

[iso_55]

Now, you're twisting things. Burke didn't feel a qb coach was necessary. There were lots of discussions on the subject. I know, as I was one of the few people here & on the other site who thought we had to have a qb coach because as I said in the past, an OC doesn't have the time to spend with qbs on the sidelines when he has an offense to run during a game. Most fans felt it wasn't important enough to hire a qb coach so I was in the minority. To add to that, Crowton spent most of the games up in the coaches box. it was only his last couple of games that he went to the sidelines. Just who do the qbs talk to when Belllefeuille is upstairs calling plays? Marcel may only have a minute or less to talk to  his qbs when the offense is on the sidelines. A dedicated qb coach can talk to his players, help them with coverages, fire them up or calm them down. As well as work with them everyday in practice, video sessions & meetings. Oh yeah, meetings. The qbs get to sit in with the receivers coach & listen to him coach them up. It's stupid not to have hired a dedicated qb coach.

[Logan007]

 

The things about what you guys are calling fluke passes if anyone other quarterback Ray Burris or Durant throw that same pass, its putting it up and allowing your receiver to make a play. Since he does not have experience its fluke passes. At least Hall is getting the ball out to the receivers and so they can make plays.

 

Nonsense. There's a difference between putting the ball up in a place where your receiver has an advantage, and just throwing it into a crowd. It's called good quarterbacking.

 

Except that Hall had to get the ball away as quickly as possible before being destroyed by the oncoming blitz, so he launched it to the first guy he could.

 

I bet if he had a few more seconds you'd see how good he might be.

[JuranBoldenRules]

If Hall has a "quick release," it must be opposite day.  He's more decisive in the pocket than Goltz, that does not equal a quick release, and Hall doesn't have one.

[iso_55]

If Hall has a "quick release," it must be opposite day.  He's more decisive in the pocket than Goltz, that does not equal a quick release, and Hall doesn't have one.

Max Hall had 162 yards passing in just under 2 quarters. Maybe Hall isn't the answer but Goltz sure isn't.

[Valderan_CA]

 

If Hall has a "quick release," it must be opposite day.  He's more decisive in the pocket than Goltz, that does not equal a quick release, and Hall doesn't have one.

Max Hall had 162 yards passing in just under 2 quarters. Maybe Hall isn't the answer but Goltz sure isn't.

 

 

He also went basically 12/12 against Hamilton in the first half (two dropped passes that hit receivers in the hands) and dropped a beauty to Kohlert in the endzone.

 

Second half wasn't as good, but our Defense basically disappeared in the second half and I think he got all of two series in the first 20 minutes of that half.

[supahdupah]

There is no doubt Max Hall is a superior QB. He's been here for a couple of months. Goltz has been here for 3 years. 

[The Unknown Poster]

Hall seemed to be trying to thread the needle a lot. And he came close many times. His accuracy and confidence could be a big positive. He needs some starts. Goltz is a waste of a roster spot at this point.