Jets v Blues playoff who wins and why.

[Floyd]

21 minutes ago, Goalie said:

What if you learn later that Wheeler IS the problem in the room tho? Ppl didn't want to believe Kane was an issue either but he was... Where there is smoke fire is usually near. Lots of smoke here. Personally... I think its mostly on Maurice... With the rest falling on Wheeler and even Scheif (cant put Buff there, he was injured) because they are the leaders... 

Heres the problem.. Ice time distribution... After 50 games Scheif was 3rd in the league in TOI behind McDavid and Barkov. Wheeler was 10th... Ppl see that and go oh well its normal.. But it's not because Scheif is not at the Mcdavid or Barkov level and the Jets aren't a 1 line team... What made us so tough last season and even in games this season at times was our ability to roll 4 lines.. Edmonton with McD and Dr Drai Colorado with Mack and Rantanen.. Chicago with Kane... These are 1 line teams who dont have the depth we have. 

There is no way 2 of our guys should be in the top 10... Our depth is what made us tough to play.. When Maurice Rolled 4 lines somewhat evenly... We won, when he didn't we lost and set an nhl record for most losses in a year in the last few minutes of a game. 11 times.. Its a record. 

This is likely a huge cause for problems in the room.

It's weird to me ppl cant for some reason put the blame on the supposed leaders and coaching when they were the ones always on the ice because the coach put them out there. 

At one point 55 and 26 were on the PK.. Absurd. 

There is an issue in the room.. Team meetings dont happen because everything is good in there.. It happens cuz there are issues and the most reasonable explanation is usually the right one.. Ice time and no accountability towards the Veteran players are at the top of that list. 

Ppl can put their heads in the sand and ignore it.. But... It was a huge problem. 

Also... Why is Maurice teflon? We have made it past 1st rd 1 time since hes been here... Hell we missed the playoffs his first full year... We regressed this season. I mean, his we were tired excuse is insane.... He was the one gassing that line all year long. And in playoffs... Even when they weren't good. Our depth is important but irrelevant when they aren't played. Chevy went out and got Hayes... Scheif Hayes Little Lowry was the plan.. Nope Little to wing.. Then, Hayes demoted to playing 9 minutes a game... Even when he played well.. The guy lead the Jets in points per 60 minutes here btw. 

Its too early in the day to get this hammered...

 

[Goalie]

Yup. Head in Sand for so many of you here. 

[Floyd]

2 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Yup. Head in Sand for so many of you here. 

You lost all of us when you claimed that Maurice rolled four lines last year.

You've repeated your points - some of which are valid - so many times that its hard to bother anymore...

 

[blue_gold_84]

5 hours ago, Goalie said:

Yup. Head in Sand for so many of you here. 

Nah. Just you. I suggest you look inward before spewing your crummy judgement at others.

Oh, and BTW: the Jets made playoffs in Maurice's first full season here (2014-15). It continues to amaze me how often you get things wrong regarding the Jets while continuing to act like an insufferable know-it-all.

[TrueBlue4ever]

8 hours ago, Goalie said:

 

Here we go.     

Answers in bold italics are mine. All stats are from nhl.com if you want to challenge my findings.

 

 

What if you learn later that Wheeler IS the problem in the room tho?  Purely speculative, and based on what evidence, anyway? Ppl didn't want to believe Kane was an issue either but he was... Don't know anyone who DIDN'T think that. PLENTY of evidence there - money phone, money push-ups, never said he wanted to stay when asked, Buff middle finger picture, track suit incident, walking out on restaurant bills.... Where there is smoke fire is usually near. Lots of smoke here. Personally... I think its mostly on Maurice... Sorry, was taking a shot, what was that again? With the rest falling on Wheeler and even Scheif (cant put Buff there, he was injured) because they are the leaders... 

Heres the problem.. Ice time distribution... After 50 games Scheif was 3rd in the league in TOI (8th after 82 games) behind McDavid and Barkov. Wheeler was 10th (19th after 82, so Maurice cut back on both of them after the all-star break, right around the time our .500 record showed up)... Ppl see that and go oh well its normal.. But it's not because Scheif is not at the Mcdavid or Barkov level and the Jets aren't a 1 line team... What made us so tough last season and even in games this season at times was our ability to roll 4 lines. (Scheif was 10th overall last year, Wheeler 13th, and their shifts per game both dropped this year, Scheif from 24.6 to 24.0, and Wheeler from 25.4 to 24.1) Edmonton with McD and Dr Drai Colorado with Mack and Rantanen.. Chicago with Kane... These are 1 line teams who dont have the depth we have. 

There is no way 2 of our guys should be in the top 10...They weren't, see above. Our depth is what made us tough to play.. When Maurice Rolled 4 lines somewhat evenly... (Laine, Connor and Tanev had bigger jumps in ice time than 55 or 26 this year, the big drops were Roslovic, Petan, Perrault, and Copp, and Hayes in for Stastny was about a 2 minutes per game drop off - maybe the depth just didn't come through and they HAD to lean on the top players more).  We won, when he didn't we lost and set an nhl record for most losses in a year in the last few minutes of a game. 11 times.. Its a record. That's flat out wrong. Jets lost 9 when leading after 2 this year (5 in regulation), so did Florida, who lost more (6) in regulation than we did. All-time record is 13 by St. Louis (8 in regulation - tied with 5 other teams) in 2004-05. 3 teams had a worse winning percentage when leading after 2 than the Jets did THIS YEAR, all-time the Jets don't even crack the top 100 worst seasons for blowing leads in terms of winning percentage. Don't make baseless stuff up to bolster your argument.

This is likely a huge cause for problems in the room. Again, purely speculative, and based on.....? You were not in the room. You have no idea.

It's weird to me ppl cant for some reason put the blame on the supposed leaders and coaching when they were the ones always on the ice because the coach put them out there. And another shot for me.....don't know why for some reason you can ONLY put the blame there. Scheif and Wheeler were on the ice 1:10 and 0:28 seconds  more on average than last year, not an extreme amount, certainly not as much as Connor's 2:20 or Tanev's 1:27.  And unlike 55 and 26, Laine's increase in ice time did not lead to a better year - and outside of November, 12 goals for the season. And no bashing from you about him?

At one point 55 and 26 were on the PK.. Absurd. Both had LESS time on average on the PK than last year, so Maurice reined them in compared to last year's dream season when it didn't seem so absurd.

There is an issue in the room.. Team meetings dont happen because everything is good in there..Name a team that DOESN'T have issues over the course of a season. Tampa? How'd that work out? Players said they had meetings last year too, the media just didn't make a big deal out of them because they weren't held up post game waiting for interviews. It happens cuz there are issues and the most reasonable explanation is usually the right one.. Ice time and no accountability towards the Veteran players are at the top of that list. (drink) Once again, purely speculative, with nothing concrete to back it up. Even Mike McIntyre, who knows how to spin - I speak from personal experience - and who is around the locker room, said in his column "Of course I have nothing definitive to back it up - players won't divulge that " Don't take his opinion, motivated as much as anything to sell papers, as gospel.

Ppl can put their heads in the sand and ignore it.. But... It was a huge problem. You and I will disagree about the definition of "huge". Were there cracks? Yes, of course. I'm not going to pretend this year was like last or that we were as good. But the sky is not falling, we don't need to blow it up by firing our coach, ripping the Captaincy off of Wheeler, and splitting apart or trading our 2 best players who both came off career years. Our window isn't close to being closed, so let's put aside the knee-jerk reactionism for a bit, shall we?

Also... Why is Maurice teflon? (another big swig) We have made it past 1st rd 1 time since hes been here... and made the playoffs 3 times in 5 years since he's been here, compared to zero before he got here...Hell we missed the playoffs his first full year...wrong again, first full year was 2014-15. Stop lying. We regressed this season. We had 114 points last year. In 101 years of the NHL made up of 1537 individual seasons for all teams, only 32 in history (2%) have ever gotten that many points in a year. It's about a .700 winning percentage (only 4% have ever achieved that). In the salary cap era (since 2005-06) only 13 teams in 392 "seasons" have reached that mark - 1 in 30. So odds are one team might hit that mark in a given year, and on average the same team is not going to repeat that feat for another 30 years. And only 3 franchises in the 101 year history of the NHL have ever followed up a 114 point or more years with another 114 point or more year - Montreal's 1976-79 juggernaut, Boston's 1971 and 72 teams, and Washington in 2016 and 2017. We overachieved big time last year - pegged as a possible playoff candidate sliding into a wild card spot, and we blew that prediction out of the water.    I mean, his we were tired excuse is insane ... He was the one gassing that line all year long. And in playoffs... Even when they weren't good. Our depth is important but irrelevant when they aren't played. Chevy went out and got Hayes... Scheif Hayes Little Lowry was the plan.. Nope Little to wing.. Then, Hayes demoted to playing 9 minutes a game... Even when he played well.. The guy lead the Jets in points per 60 minutes here btw. Another complete fabrication. Hayes PPG/60 was 2.42 with the Jets, 2.55 overall . Scheifele was 2.81, Wheeler 3.22

I don't buy every excuse. Travel fatigue seems weak, but 10 teams have had the Global Series in the last 2 years. 5 missed the playoffs, and another 4 got knocked out in the first round. Only Boston this year is still kicking. They logged 5500 less miles than we did. Our post all-star break schedule was pretty close to the Blues, but we had 3 west coast trips and 3 east coast trips compared to their two and four. Like I said, I don't really buy that explanation. All I can say is, last year, everyone thought Maurice was on the hot seat going into 2017-18, thought he was garbage 2 games in, and then thought he was a genius and Coach of the Year by the end. He did not forget how to coach in the last 35 games this year. If we had the same 11-1 run to finish the year this season like last, we would have hit 108 points and led the West. We finished 2nd in the Central, one point out of top spot. Last year we finished second in the Central, 3 points out of top spot. Our playoff opponent last year was 13 points worse than us, this year they were tied with us, and were the hottest team outside of Tampa in the second half. And but for game 6, all metrics had us outplaying them for the balance of the series. Game 1 we lost to a hot goalie, game 2 our goalie played badly, game 3 was our dominant game over them, game 4 we outchanced them in the last 2 periods and overtime. Game 5 we controlled the play for 2 of the 3 periods, just like game 1. In the end, we had pretty much no puck luck, had some questionable calls go against us, and got beat by a hot team that we hung with. We did "flip a switch", just not good enough to beat a team on a roll. Everyone bought in too much to a 114 point season the year before, this year was market correction a lot more than "fundamentally flawed" as the critics would say. We got younger this year than last, let that talent mature and learn from this rather than blowing it up because we are butt hurt we didn't fulfill the ridiculous Hockey News prophecy of 2015 that we WERE the Stanley Cup champs. We had much lower expectations last year, we weren't going to sneak up on anyone this season, and we need to adjust to that target on or backs. I'd wager St. Louis and Colorado will backslide next year with the weight of higher expectations on them.

Anyway, we differ in opinion, but you don't need to spout the same line about 55, 26, and Maurice in 27 different posts. We get it. Your point has been made ad nauseum. But if you are going to back it up, try harder than unsubstantiated personal opinion proclaiming to "know" the room is broken, it's because of overplaying Wheeler and Scheifele- the locker room cancers, and that Maurice and his 693 career wins has no clue how to run a bench, even though you say yourself "I'm no coach". And don't throw out stats to back your claims up when those stats are patently false. We have a US President for that kind of nonsense.

I'm done debating this with you. I will just sit back and smile gleefully from now on knowing that you will continue to whine even more about Maurice, that the club is NOT going to fire him any time soon, despite your wishes, and it will eat away at you all summer until you learn some perspective and let go of the conspiracy theory of toxic locker room led by the 26-55 mutiny. And will continue my drinking game.

 

 

 

Edited April 25, 2019 by TrueBlue4ever

[JCon]

12 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

 

I owe you multiple trophies, multiple agrees and multiple likes. Well done. 

[TrueBlue4ever]

Just now, JCon said:

I owe you multiple trophies, multiple agrees and multiple likes. Well done. 

Exhausting to write, even more so to read I'm sure (sorry everyone), but the same tired mantra again and again with no foundation in solid facts was just too much. Going to go adjust my hate meter now, lol.

[do or die]

Well, frankly I have never heard much of anything.... about coaching approach, roster usage, player usage, riffs in the room, or old vs young.

When you win.

I have already made comments about some of these issues....but when you lose, everything gets magnified.  All you have to do is check out some others teams boards - everything is bad, everybody sucks, and everyone hates each other. 

A certain amount of change IS coming, simply because of the cap situation.  Some younger guys WILL  be required to step up and take on larger roles, next year.  

[The Unknown Poster]

That video of wheeler and scheif looks to me like two guys who’d rather be doing anything but a public post mortem of a disappointing season   

 

[FrostyWinnipeg]

Glad they stopped it while they did cause who wants to see a sad Matt Hendricks.

Edited April 25, 2019 by FrostyWinnipeg

[do or die]

Matt Hendricks was specifically brought back here to do something or other. 
Fail.

[Floyd]

1 hour ago, do or die said:

Matt Hendricks was specifically brought back here to do something or other. 
Fail.

Wonder what would happen if we brought someone in who'd won a Stanley Cup...

[FrostyWinnipeg]

3 minutes ago, Floyd said:

Wonder what would happen if we brought someone in who'd won a Stanley Cup...

Buff?

[kelownabomberfan]

21 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

That video of wheeler and scheif looks to me like two guys who’d rather be doing anything but a public post mortem of a disappointing season   

 

you know...I think...you know...you are bang on....

[The Unknown Poster]

the gist of this story is that Wheeler is the problem.  Credit to wheeler for also accepting the blame. 

But these reporters say the talk is wheeler is condescending and the younger players have an issue with the older players.  

And that Scheif is supposed to be the go-between but is more of a mini-Wheeler. 

So maybe you give Buff’s A to morrissey (cause Buff didn’t want it anyway and you’re not taking letters from W or S)

[FrostyWinnipeg]

1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

the gist of this story is that Wheeler is the problem.  Credit to wheeler for also accepting the blame. 

But these reporters say the talk is wheeler is condescending and the younger players have an issue with the older players.  

And that Scheif is supposed to be the go-between but is more of a mini-Wheeler. 

So maybe you give Buff’s A to morrissey (cause Buff didn’t want it anyway and you’re not taking letters from W or S)

Millenials!

Edited April 26, 2019 by FrostyWinnipeg

[Floyd]

1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

the gist of this story is that Wheeler is the problem.  Credit to wheeler for also accepting the blame. 

But these reporters say the talk is wheeler is condescending and the younger players have an issue with the older players.  

And that Scheif is supposed to be the go-between but is more of a mini-Wheeler. 

So maybe you give Buff’s A to morrissey (cause Buff didn’t want it anyway and you’re not taking letters from W or S)

They're basically saying its his fault because he's condescending to the media...  not sure I buy that

I'm still betting that this team is fine as soon as Trouba is traded - maybe Copp is starting to get pissed off at his lack of ice time too hard to say...

And Laine actually working out over the summer would help too

[The Unknown Poster]

6 hours ago, Floyd said:

They're basically saying its his fault because he's condescending to the media...  not sure I buy that

I'm still betting that this team is fine as soon as Trouba is traded - maybe Copp is starting to get pissed off at his lack of ice time too hard to say...

And Laine actually working out over the summer would help too

Laine gained weight last year. 

Yeah I have a hard time believing some locker room division over old guys and young guys not getting along.  Who cares.  This is pro hockey. But if there are issues move out the culprits and move on.   

[Floyd]

One of our best players doesn’t want to be here... that’s got to wear on the team after a while

[FrostyWinnipeg]

55 minutes ago, Floyd said:

One of our best players doesn’t want to be here... that’s got to wear on the team after a while

UFA at 26. Not much different then Austin Matthews. Gonna see more of these UFA/26 guys i think in the future.

[Goalie]

The media is upset cuz Blake has been a bit douchey to them this year. Is he a problem? Maybe. Who knows. His attitude did seem to change this season. I could see him rubbing certain players the wrong way. Blake seems like a guy who likes things done his way. I dunno tho. 

Trouba? The source of issues? I dunno.. I think the useage issue is the real problem.. Ice time distribution. Vets were coddled this year.. Less accountability for them.. Make a mistake.. Out next shift. Youngster benched. That can lead to problems. Trouba seems 2 dumb to be a problem. 

Edited April 27, 2019 by Goalie

[Mark H.]

4 hours ago, Goalie said:

s. Trouba seems 2 dumb to be a problem. 

Being dumb and playing D the way he does do not go together. 

[Goalie]

3 hours ago, Mark H. said:

Being dumb and playing D the way he does do not go together. 

Sure it does. Thats why when he was on the PP it didn't work. His strengths are in the D zone.. Hes not a high hockey IQ guy tho. 

[Mark H.]

2 hours ago, Goalie said:

Sure it does. Thats why when he was on the PP it didn't work. His strengths are in the D zone.. Hes not a high hockey IQ guy tho. 

Does not compute. 

[Goalie]

8 hours ago, Mark H. said:

Does not compute. 

He dumber than a bag of hammers. Its true. Not the smartest IQ guy on the ice. Its well known.