CFL 2019 Predictions, Surprises And Grey Cup Drought Ending Chances

[Booch]

Goosen didn't start year one though..in this argument

[TBURGESS]

Classic fan forum stuff, whether it's here or on the Riders forum. 

When a player is on our team he's great, an all star, likely best in the league. When he leaves, we won't miss a beat, he wasn't that good anyway, his backup will be just as good, likely better, heck, his backup woulda coulda shoulda taken his job last year (The GM said as much after we knew he wasn't coming back), his new team overpaid to get him and they'll be sorry. Anyone who disagrees is just a negative troll who must be argued with. SMITE HIM... SMITE HIM.

[Noeller]

15 minutes ago, Booch said:

Goosen didn't start year one though..in this argument

are you sure? I could have sworn he came in and started immediately....

[Jesse]

6 minutes ago, Noeller said:

are you sure? I could have sworn he came in and started immediately....

Definitely not.

There was bust talk because he took some time to get in the starting line up.

[Booch]

i dont think he started until into the season year two..supplanted Picard mid season I believe

[Colin Unger]

2 hours ago, Noeller said:

Bullllllllllll shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit.

It’s true that Chung only made it as an all star due to voting from outside Manitoba. I’m sure that the Toronto cfl media really breaks down the deep analytics before making these decisions. I’m not suggesting Chung isn’t a very good Canadian guard.  Just that he’s probably not the best right guard in the league.

Im much more concerned about what kind of center will have to replace Goosen than whether or not Grey will become better than Chung. 

[Colin Unger]

30 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

Classic fan forum stuff, whether it's here or on the Riders forum. 

When a player is on our team he's great, an all star, likely best in the league. When he leaves, we won't miss a beat, he wasn't that good anyway, his backup will be just as good, likely better, heck, his backup woulda coulda shoulda taken his job last year (The GM said as much after we knew he wasn't coming back), his new team overpaid to get him and they'll be sorry. Anyone who disagrees is just a negative troll who must be argued with. SMITE HIM... SMITE HIM.

I hope nobody is suggesting that I don’t think that Chung is a good guard. What he lacks in physical ability makes up in fight and tenacity.  But he struggles against physically dominant defensive tackles like Mica Johnson. Chungs got a real mean streak out there. 

[Colin Unger]

22 hours ago, 17to85 said:

No one is a starter until they are. But lots of backups become starters, that's just normal sports.

Right. And some times they ain’t as good as the previous starter and sometimes they are a significant upgrade.

[Colin Unger]

12 minutes ago, Booch said:

i dont think he started until into the season year two..supplanted Picard mid season I believe

Correct.  Goosen needed to develop for s period of time first.  I believe we wanted to draft Pierre Lavertu because he was the only center in the draft who could potentially come in and start immediately. Calgary traded Gott for a pick and then picked Lavertu before we could do we drafted the next best center and developed him. 

[Bigblue204]

1 hour ago, TBURGESS said:

Classic fan forum stuff, whether it's here or on the Riders forum. 

When a player is on our team he's great, an all star, likely best in the league. When he leaves, we won't miss a beat, he wasn't that good anyway, his backup will be just as good, likely better, heck, his backup woulda coulda shoulda taken his job last year (The GM said as much after we knew he wasn't coming back), his new team overpaid to get him and they'll be sorry. Anyone who disagrees is just a negative troll who must be argued with. SMITE HIM... SMITE HIM.

There was plenty of talk by fans and media alike that Jones was on the heels of Loffler last TC and that the coaches would have a hard choice to make. Obviously once Loffler left Walters would make those kinds of statements. But it wasnt the first or only time it had come up.

And before you say it, I know the fans talking or the media talking aren't the same as the coaches....but youd be ignorant to think the coaches would say something like that, about an allstar during the TC.

Further more....many I'm sure including yourself thought the loss of Bond was going to be a set back. We all saw how that played out. Yes he wasnt replaced by a rookie or a unproven player....but the sentiment was still there that his backup wouldn't suffice. 

We've seen over the course of the past 2 years how back ups have come in to replace starters due to injury without a drastic drop in quality, with the exception of Receiver's. There is reason to be optimistic. I dont think anyone is saying there is no potential for a drop in quality. We're just choosing to be optimistic based on a fairly large body of evidence.

Optimism...you should try it sometime.

[Floyd]

1 hour ago, Booch said:

i dont think he started until into the season year two..supplanted Picard mid season I believe

I thought Morley wa our centre at that time...?

and yes goossen was round for a year I think... like couture

[Floyd]

1 hour ago, TBURGESS said:

Classic fan forum stuff, whether it's here or on the Riders forum. 

When a player is on our team he's great, an all star, likely best in the league. When he leaves, we won't miss a beat, he wasn't that good anyway, his backup will be just as good, likely better, heck, his backup woulda coulda shoulda taken his job last year (The GM said as much after we knew he wasn't coming back), his new team overpaid to get him and they'll be sorry. Anyone who disagrees is just a negative troll who must be argued with. SMITE HIM... SMITE HIM.

This is just trolling now.  You must be losing the argument...

 

[Tracker]

The only person who likes change is a wet baby, and like it or not, it is inevitable. Losing Goossen and Chungh are setbacks, no doubt, but Walters has proven he can fill holes, and fill them well. JSK was good, but not great, and Loffler got beaten a lot the past year or two. Loffler hits a ton but often at the expense of being out of position. There has been deserved criticism of Bombers when they were not good enough and/or screwed up.

[TBURGESS]

20 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

There was plenty of talk by fans and media alike that Jones was on the heels of Loffler last TC and that the coaches would have a hard choice to make. Obviously once Loffler left Walters would make those kinds of statements. But it wasnt the first or only time it had come up.

And before you say it, I know the fans talking or the media talking aren't the same as the coaches....but youd be ignorant to think the coaches would say something like that, about an allstar during the TC.

Further more....many I'm sure including yourself thought the loss of Bond was going to be a set back. We all saw how that played out. Yes he wasnt replaced by a rookie or a unproven player....but the sentiment was still there that his backup wouldn't suffice. 

We've seen over the course of the past 2 years how back ups have come in to replace starters due to injury without a drastic drop in quality, with the exception of Receiver's. There is reason to be optimistic. I dont think anyone is saying there is no potential for a drop in quality. We're just choosing to be optimistic based on a fairly large body of evidence.

Optimism...you should try it sometime.

Jones is a 5 year vet with 18 Defensive tackles overall. He's never cracked the starting lineup. He's been a good special teams guy. He was injured most of last year.

Loffler is a 3 year vet with 185 Defensive tackles in 2 years less playing time. He started in his rookie year and has been an all star every year he's been in the league.

Huge difference in the two players CFL careers so far. Huge potential for a significant drop off too.

It's way easier to replace an import than a NI which makes your Bond example a red herring. It wouldn't be as much of a potential problem to replace 1 all star NI as it is to replace 3 of them in the same year.

23 minutes ago, Floyd said:

This is just trolling now.  You must be losing the argument...

When folks pivot from discussing the post to calling the poster a troll, they have already lost the argument.

[Floyd]

Guess we’ll find out soon enough 

[Colin Unger]

I'm not saying that these players aren't good players and that I wouldn't rather have had them coming back. However, I felt the same way about TJ Heath and Jamal Westerman. Loffler is a good safety still however his style of play has been significantly impacted by all the new rule changes that have come out in the last few seasons where he's no longer able to light receivers up once their fingers touch the ball. Safety is simple not the impact position it used to be. In his first two seasons he had 7 forced fumbles and 0 last season. Calgary played great defense and won the Grey Cup with Adam Berger playing at safety.   It's one thing to have to replace 3 ratio breakers who are all-stars. However, in these cases, we are talking about a guard, a center, and a safety.  Not a right tackle, linebacker, and defensive end.  The bombers have been drafting and developing replacement players in these positions. Positions that have largely been considered non-ratio breaker. Meaning that there is a steady supply of Canadian who can play these positions. You just gotta keep drafting and developing them. Which Winnipeg has. We didn't look that bad defensively even when Hect was in at safety. With an improved pass rush this season we should be just fine.  The defense is not something I'm worried about.  In the CFL you're always going to have turnover.   At any other time, I would be worried about our offensive line after losing players of this caliber. But at this juncture, we will be fine because we have players in the system who can fill those roles. When Walters took over we were 5 starters short of an offensive line and nothing in the system. Now we lost 2 guys and have several options already in the system who can fill those roles and 2 picks in the first round. There's a reason why Winnipeg made no attempt to sign a veteran offensive lineman in free agency despite having the cap space to do so. These 3 Canadians keep being brought up however I'm not worried about it.  I'm more concerned over whether or not our quarterbacking and receiving will be improved over last season.

[Colin Unger]

Im gonna laugh when the CFL announced that only 5 canadian starters are required starting this season

[TBURGESS]

24 minutes ago, Colin Unger said:

Im gonna laugh when the CFL announced that only 5 canadian starters are required starting this season

That would be great for us.

[Floyd]

The entire point of stability was to have a regime that would have players in the system for when guys move on - bombers have shown they can do that with every position except receiver ha

we can always sign dressier after training camp if there’s an issue...

[Booch]

Using the "Jones is a 5 yr vet unable to crack lineup " reasoning is foolish at best...Few if any Canadian DB's crack a starting lineup their first year or two..heck few players of any position do..Loffler took hold of the position when he did as Jones was working more as the boundary corner and wasn't taking many practice reps at safety...and last year..year 4 was primed to supplant Loffler and his limited skill-set, but was injured...but none the less he is coming into this year as a seasoned vet with more than adequate skills and athleticism...more than Loffler has to take over the role...stats be damned

He will also allow us to mix up and use different coverage schemes and change the defensive look more than we could before, and that in itself will make us a stronger defense especially with what will probably be a lot of heat being brought from the Jeff's..Bryant and Neveis and Biggie...

 

[Bigblue204]

36 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

That would be great for everyone.

FTFY

[WBBFanWest]

2 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

Jones is a 5 year vet with 18 Defensive tackles overall. He's never cracked the starting lineup. He's been a good special teams guy. He was injured most of last year.

Loffler is a 3 year vet with 185 Defensive tackles in 2 years less playing time. He started in his rookie year and has been an all star every year he's been in the league.

Huge difference in the two players CFL careers so far. Huge potential for a significant drop off too.

It's way easier to replace an import than a NI which makes your Bond example a red herring. It wouldn't be as much of a potential problem to replace 1 all star NI as it is to replace 3 of them in the same year.

When folks pivot from discussing the post to calling the poster a troll, they have already lost the argument.

TBurg Rule

[rebusrankin]

Goossen didn't start full time until year 3, 2016.

[TBURGESS]

2 hours ago, Booch said:

Using the "Jones is a 5 yr vet unable to crack lineup " reasoning is foolish at best...Few if any Canadian DB's crack a starting lineup their first year or two..heck few players of any position do..Loffler took hold of the position when he did as Jones was working more as the boundary corner and wasn't taking many practice reps at safety...and last year..year 4 was primed to supplant Loffler and his limited skill-set, but was injured...but none the less he is coming into this year as a seasoned vet with more than adequate skills and athleticism...more than Loffler has to take over the role...stats be damned

He will also allow us to mix up and use different coverage schemes and change the defensive look more than we could before, and that in itself will make us a stronger defense especially with what will probably be a lot of heat being brought from the Jeff's..Bryant and Neveis and Biggie...

Loffler cracked the lineup in year 1. Jones was on that team and had 2 more years of pro experience than Loffler at the time. If the Bombers thought that Jones was 'the right guy' back then, they'd have given him more reps at safety. It could be argued that they wouldn't have even drafted Loffler if they thought that Jones could play safety.

You're arguing that 4 years in, Jones was finally ready to supplant Loffler who had been an all star every year he was in the league, except that Jones he got injured. Your 'reasoning' is that stats be damned. Quite frankly, Walters saying that 3 year all star  Loffler almost lost his job last year to a career special teams player when it became clear that Loffler wasn't going to sign with us, is very close to throwing a player under the bus. I didn't think that was the Canadian Mafia's way.

[Mr Dee]

I think that O’Shea and Walters set their limit on Loffler and followed through with their reasoning. They would have signed him at their price but not at a price that stretched their limit. Especially if they feel they had the next man up. That’s Free Agency. I almost feel they expected it.

As for Chungh, money is not always the issue, especially for BC born Chungh. Were the Bombers willing to pay Chungh and compete with the home province. Doubtful.

Sukhs, but that’s Free Agency too.