CIS Draft - May 2nd

[WBBFanWest]

53 minutes ago, M.O.A.B. said:

Addison RIchards: "Emagardz! You guys still talking about me?"

I think he ended up in ICU for a while after getting hit by the ball.

[rebusrankin]

1 hour ago, Noeller said:

?? George Michael..... 

 

[Fatty Liver]

2 hours ago, Colin Unger said:

Not sure what value there is in critiquing the drafting history of the bombers prior to Walters calling the shots after Mack was fired.  We know they were bad at drafting until that point.  

Examining the draft records the most appalling thing about those drafts wasn't so much the picks Mack made (although they were bad enough) but round after round when the Bombers had no selections at all.  Nice to see Joe now working his magic in the Als. war room.

[Noeller]

36 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

 

 

[wbbfan]

44 minutes ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

Examining the draft records the most appalling thing about those drafts wasn't so much the picks Mack made (although they were bad enough) but round after round when the Bombers had no selections at all.  Nice to see Joe now working his magic in the Als. war room.

Go back to the taman era its even worse. If you take out the last couple of walters drafts and go back say 20 years, we have got to have the worst drafting record in the league or close to it. 

[AKAChip]

Unpopular opinion but Mack is an infinitely better CFL GM than Taman. 

[rebusrankin]

3 minutes ago, AKAChip said:

Unpopular opinion but Mack is an infinitely better CFL GM than Taman. 

21 wins, 39 losses, winning percentage of .350. Horrible NI drafting. Taman has his flaws but Mack was terrible GM. I mean he was Pocchie level bad.

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, rebusrankin said:

21 wins, 39 losses, winning percentage of .350. Horrible NI drafting. Taman has his flaws but Mack was terrible GM. I mean he was Pocchie level bad.

Taman won a Grey Cup as GM. What did Mack win which was nothing?

[SPuDS]

3 hours ago, AKAChip said:

Unpopular opinion but Mack is an infinitely better CFL GM than Taman. 

Uh.  Wut?

[JuranBoldenRules]

8 hours ago, AKAChip said:

Unpopular opinion but Mack is an infinitely better CFL GM than Taman. 

Incorrect opinion.  Taman traded picks but for the most part got something useful, like Doug Brown, Kevin Glenn, Alex Gauthier etc.  He was a one man personnel department in a different era here.

Mack didn’t really build anything here.  2011 team was carried by the defense Mike Kelly built in 2009.   Other than that season we were pretty much the worst team in the league and a complete embarrassment.  Mack thought Tim Burke as head coach was a good idea. Mack found some decent imports but couldn’t put together a team, a bunch of guys who had a few good games.

[Arnold_Palmer]

1 hour ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Incorrect opinion.  Taman traded picks but for the most part got something useful, like Doug Brown, Kevin Glenn, Alex Gauthier etc.  He was a one man personnel department in a different era here.

Mack didn’t really build anything here.  2011 team was carried by the defense Mike Kelly built in 2009.   Other than that season we were pretty much the worst team in the league and a complete embarrassment.  Mack thought Tim Burke as head coach was a good idea. Mack found some decent imports but couldn’t put together a team, a bunch of guys who had a few good games.

100 percent. The nucleus of that 2011 team was Mike Kelly players. Mack was NOT a good GM. 

[GCn20]

22 minutes ago, Arnold_Palmer said:

100 percent. The nucleus of that 2011 team was Mike Kelly players. Mack was NOT a good GM. 

Baloney. I'm not defending Mack but Kelly only had 3 starting D players he recruited from 2009 remaining on the 2011 team. Odell, Jovon, and Hefney. The rest were all Taman holdovers and Mack recruits.

Mack brought in the following D players to the 2011 team:

Bryant Turner, Jason Vega, Kenny Mainor, Alex Suber, Johnny Sears, Marcellus Bowman, Clint Kent, Henoc Muamba

Mack was a terrible GM because he didn't put stock in having a proven QB, didn't draft well, was cheap, and didn't value the importance of the NATs. However, it is revisionist history to suggest he was a poor scout or poor at IMP recruitment.

Edited May 7, 2019 by gcn11

[Arnold_Palmer]

8 minutes ago, gcn11 said:

Baloney. I'm not defending Mack but Kelly only had 3 starting D players he recruited from 2009 remaining on the 2011 team. Odell, Jovon, and Hefney. The rest were all Taman holdovers and Mack recruits.

Mack brought in the following D players to the 2011 team:

Bryant Turner, Jason Vega, Kenny Mainor, Alex Suber, Johnny Sears, Marcellus Bowman, Clint Kent, Henoc Muamba

Mack was a terrible GM because he didn't put stock in having a proven QB, didn't draft well, was cheap, and didn't value the importance of the NATs. However, it is revisionist history to suggest he was a poor scout or poor at IMP recruitment.

Yes he brought in our three best players on defense in one year. Aka our nucleus. Mack was a decent scout I don’t deny some of the talent he brought in but because of the reasons you mention above he was not a good GM.

[GCn20]

Actually, I was incorrect. Johnson was brought in by Taman in 2008. I wouldn't call Odell and Hefney the nucleus of our defence in 2011. 15% of the defensive starting roster were Kelly recruits/acquisitions. Pretty tough to make the claim he was the architect of that defence based on that.

Edited May 7, 2019 by gcn11

[Colin Unger]

11 hours ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

Examining the draft records the most appalling thing about those drafts wasn't so much the picks Mack made (although they were bad enough) but round after round when the Bombers had no selections at all.  Nice to see Joe now working his magic in the Als. war room.

After the Taman Empire we were just happy to have any draft picks at all.

[17to85]

40 minutes ago, gcn11 said:

 

Mack was a terrible GM because he didn't put stock in having a proven QB, 

And yet his first moves were to bring in peirce and jyles, probably the best 2 free agent QBs, he was interested in Reilly but he was never coming here. He knew the importance of the position, it just didn't work out. Then he made mistakes at the head coach position twice and that was that.

[JuranBoldenRules]

1 hour ago, gcn11 said:

Actually, I was incorrect. Johnson was brought in by Taman in 2008. I wouldn't call Odell and Hefney the nucleus of our defence in 2011. 15% of the defensive starting roster were Kelly recruits/acquisitions. Pretty tough to make the claim he was the architect of that defence based on that.

Johnson moves to boundary corner in 2009 and becomes a top defensive player.  Hefney plays boundary HB and becomes a top defensive player.  Arguably in 2011 those two are the best players in the league.

[Arnold_Palmer]

1 hour ago, gcn11 said:

Actually, I was incorrect. Johnson was brought in by Taman in 2008. I wouldn't call Odell and Hefney the nucleus of our defence in 2011. 15% of the defensive starting roster were Kelly recruits/acquisitions. Pretty tough to make the claim he was the architect of that defence based on that.

Those three were leaps and bound our best and most impactful players. I’m not trying to stick up for Mike Kelly or anything but I’m just saying. 

[Noeller]

Taman bashing still makes me shake my head. If you could see the difference in  budget from then to now, and what he was able to accomplish with it........cripes. I have no idea how we were able to have those teams from 2000-2003....

[17to85]

Taman is what he is, a guy who lived in the here and now and didn't plan long term. It comes with good and bad.

[Arnold_Palmer]

3 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Taman is what he is, a guy who lived in the here and now and didn't plan long term. It comes with good and bad.

Exactly. I loved the 01-03 years but 04-05 were pretty ugly and that was on Taman. He was what he was. 

[Floyd]

24 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Taman bashing still makes me shake my head. If you could see the difference in  budget from then to now, and what he was able to accomplish with it........cripes. I have no idea how we were able to have those teams from 2000-2003....

That and he still built a legit grey cup team in 2007...  if Kevin Glenn doesn't break his arm, no one gives a crap about traded picks...

[Floyd]

4 minutes ago, Arnold_Palmer said:

Exactly. I loved the 01-03 years but 04-05 were pretty ugly and that was on Taman. He was what he was. 

Taman's first real year as GM was 2004...  Bauer finally ousted Ritchie and installed Jim Daley

If Bauer first lets Richie 'right the ship' and then lets Taman/Berry have some time... we have a grey cup by now.

Look at all the time and support Walters gets... of course he doesn't have to 'live in the now'...

[Colin Unger]

Taman was much better than Mack overall.   But the one good thing about Mack is that he had the patience to suffer while we waited to have an upcoming stock of draft picks.  Probably it had more to do with thinking his Americans were better than cfl vets however he did turn the tide in this area and was able to hand over a team to the next gm which actually had draft picks on day one. 

[GCn20]

1 hour ago, Arnold_Palmer said:

Those three were leaps and bound our best and most impactful players. I’m not trying to stick up for Mike Kelly or anything but I’m just saying. 

Taman provided JJ, it is revisionist history to say that Kelly was more responsible for the 2011 defence than Mack. I thought Mack was a lousy GM but he was leaps and bounds better than Kelly. That guy was a disgusting blemish on our organization.