Players You're Excited To See

[kelownabomberfan]

5 hours ago, Noeller said:

Stop equating Canadian with lesser talent.....

I assumed that Colin meant that the Canadians on offence were just really heavy, which made sense since a lot of them were on the O-line...

[Colin Unger]

59 minutes ago, Floyd said:

It was the Americans holding us back.... Dressler's broken, Adams disappears, Thompkins et al have yet to prove themselves...

Harris carried the offence on his back, Woli was money... Demski was pretty good too...  Rush, Petermann, Simonise - they showed well too

Not wrong. But when judging lapo here would we not say that he got a lot more out of Demski than he was putting on display on his previous team?  

Lapo to me takes an approach where he’s looking at players as filling very specific roles.  Not much unlike the New England Patriots. The number of players who weren’t spectacular elsewhere who have found success in specific roles for the patriots is staggering.  I see the same thing happening in Winnipeg. Harris become better here, Nichols, demski, Adams...  

The offensive line was still a huge question mark before Lapo came to town as well.  You give him an elite qb and I think you’d see a very different look on offense but he doesn’t have that yet so i he’s making it work with what he has.  Ritchie Hall on the other hand requires elite talent on d and couldn’t make it work with what he had until Bighill came to town. That’s all I’m trying to say here. 

 

[Floyd]

Harris is just still Harris...  he makes the OL better because the D always had to consider his threat

Using players for very specific skill sets almost seems like a bit of a knock against Lapp... it gets predictable 

[Noeller]

25 minutes ago, Colin Unger said:

Not wrong. But when judging lapo here would we not say that he got a lot more out of Demski than he was putting on display on his previous team?  

 

Demski was hurt the whole time he was in Sask, so you can't even make the call, and honestly, I was expecting a lot more out of Demski the last couple years. He had moments, but didn't really shine the way I thought. If he fills Dresslers role this year, maybe we'll see a difference but you absolutely can't say Lapo is getting more out of him because he hardly played in Sask. 

[Jpan85]

They are getting more out of him. When he was in the lineup for the Riders he was the wide side wr Lapo brought him closer to the ball playing him at slotback which makes real use of his talents,

[Colin Unger]

40 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Demski was hurt the whole time he was in Sask, so you can't even make the call, and honestly, I was expecting a lot more out of Demski the last couple years. He had moments, but didn't really shine the way I thought. If he fills Dresslers role this year, maybe we'll see a difference but you absolutely can't say Lapo is getting more out of him because he hardly played in Sask. 

He dressed for 40 games as a rider including 17 in 2016...  We got more out of him.  Lapo utilized him in a role that was more suited to a running back turned receiver.  Basically, the role that Flanders was in in late 2017.  I don't see him a someone who would do well in Dressler's role. 

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, Floyd said:

Harris is just still Harris...  he makes the OL better because the D always had to consider his threat

Using players for very specific skill sets almost seems like a bit of a knock against Lapp... it gets predictable 

Helps the OL as much as any back since mike sellers. He busts tackles, pushes the pile, blocks almost like an extra OL. Lets em pound DL a lot with far more rune plays. 

32 minutes ago, Colin Unger said:

He dressed for 40 games as a rider including 17 in 2016...  We got more out of him.  Lapo utilized him in a role that was more suited to a running back turned receiver.  Basically, the role that Flanders was in in late 2017.  I don't see him a someone who would do well in Dressler's role. 

Plops role could not fit him better. They are a match made in heaven. Id love to see him get more touches. 

[B-F-F-C]

9 hours ago, Colin Unger said:

The numbers speak for themselves.  Our offense despite being heavily Canadian and being led by a castoff QB has been very productive.    It took a nearly all american defense and Adam Bighill for Hall to look like a CFL defensive co-ordinator. 

If you look at our recent playoff losses it's been the offence that's let us down.  Lapo is predictable and is considered an average OC when compared to guys like Dave Dickinson.  Dickinson can adjust on the fly and exploit the other teams defensive weaknesses.  Lapo just keeps doing the same thing over and over again hoping for a different result.

[Brandon]

7 minutes ago, B-F-F-C said:

If you look at our recent playoff losses it's been the offence that's let us down.  Lapo is predictable and is considered an average OC when compared to guys like Dave Dickinson.  Dickinson can adjust on the fly and exploit the other teams defensive weaknesses.  Lapo just keeps doing the same thing over and over again hoping for a different result.

Is it Lapo though??  This is what I really want to find out this season.   Because it seemed like once Streveler went in the ball was distributed around everywhere and that Nichols really struggled at making quick reads and always did the drop off?   

 

[rebusrankin]

Lapo had a conservative offense when he was our head coach. He ran a fairly conservative offense in 2003 as our OC. It has generally been the knock on him, well that and his propensity to revert to "smartest man in the room" mode.

[Colin Unger]

1 hour ago, B-F-F-C said:

If you look at our recent playoff losses it's been the offence that's let us down.  Lapo is predictable and is considered an average OC when compared to guys like Dave Dickinson.  Dickinson can adjust on the fly and exploit the other teams defensive weaknesses.  Lapo just keeps doing the same thing over and over again hoping for a different result.

That's a bit of a straw man.  "If you're not Dickenson you're average"...  I'd like to believe there is something in between Dickenson and average. And let's keep in mind that Lapo hasn't exactly been blessed with the best qb's while he's been an OC.  I don't think anyone would argue though that the QB's he's had haven't had their best seasons with him.  Nichols, Glenn, Durant, Jones.  I'd love to see Dickenson prove himself without an elite QB at some point so we can find out how good he actually is. June Jones is more impressive to me at this point. 

I'm looking at our recent playoff losses.  The offense was elite in 2 of them and not nearly good enough in the most recent one against the best defense in the league. The offense didn't perform any differently against Calgary in that playoff loss then it had all season versus Calgary.   I fail to see any connection to the offense and there being some sort of different result in the playoffs under Lapo. 

 

2016 Playoff loss 32-31 against BC.  459 offensive yards and zero turnovers.  The defense gave up 522 yards.
2017 Playoff loss 39-32 against Edmonton.  502 offensive yards 3 turnovers but two were on downs. The defense was a complete sieve. 
2018 Playoff loss 22-14 against Calgary.  262 offensive yards and 0 turnovers. The defense was great but not great enough.   This was an improvement over the offense against Calgary in regular season where the offense threw the games away with turnovers. 

[Colin Unger]

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

Is it Lapo though??  This is what I really want to find out this season.   Because it seemed like once Streveler went in the ball was distributed around everywhere and that Nichols really struggled at making quick reads and always did the drop off?   

 

The backup always looks good coming on in relief.  Nichols was playing on a bum knee all year and lost his confidence at times as a result of his physical limitations.   When he kept throwing those pick 6 plays to defensive ends Lapo did the logical thing and further limited the playbook to avoid those game killers.  They need Nichols back at 100% or at some point to give Streveler a chance.  Despite the poor qb play Lapo still devised gameplans that led to the team leading the league in points and offensive points scored. 

[17to85]

So you think the game plan against the Stamps in the playoffs was just fine? Be ultra conservative and try and win by the other team making more mistakes than you do? That **** works against the Riders (where the offense did nothing as well) but it doesn't work against teams as well rounded as Calgary. Same **** happened in the 2011 Grey Cup game. Lapo tried to let the D win rather than letting the offense try and help them win. 

 

Down by 2 or 3 scores Lapo is a hell of an OC, tied or leading is way too passive. 

Probably why when the D was giving up 500 yards in playoff games the offense was putting up big numbers too.

[AKAChip]

10 hours ago, Colin Unger said:

The backup always looks good coming on in relief.  Nichols was playing on a bum knee all year and lost his confidence at times as a result of his physical limitations.   When he kept throwing those pick 6 plays to defensive ends Lapo did the logical thing and further limited the playbook to avoid those game killers.  They need Nichols back at 100% or at some point to give Streveler a chance.  Despite the poor qb play Lapo still devised gameplans that led to the team leading the league in points and offensive points scored. 

I think the logical thing to do if your QB is either too injured or too bad to not completely blow games by throwing the ball to the opposing defensive line is not to completely neuter your playbook but rather staple him to the bench and give a QB with some confidence at least a couple of games. The stubbornness with Nichols absolutely cost the Bombers at least two wins last season. 

[wbbfan]

14 hours ago, Brandon said:

Is it Lapo though??  This is what I really want to find out this season.   Because it seemed like once Streveler went in the ball was distributed around everywhere and that Nichols really struggled at making quick reads and always did the drop off?   

 

Valid question, yet impossible to answer right now. 

 

13 hours ago, Colin Unger said:

The backup always looks good coming on in relief.  Nichols was playing on a bum knee all year and lost his confidence at times as a result of his physical limitations.   When he kept throwing those pick 6 plays to defensive ends Lapo did the logical thing and further limited the playbook to avoid those game killers.  They need Nichols back at 100% or at some point to give Streveler a chance.  Despite the poor qb play Lapo still devised gameplans that led to the team leading the league in points and offensive points scored. 

It is a cushy gig. Though you tend to get blitzed like mad and can deal with deflated a deflated team. And depth QB's tend to have strong chemistry with depth WRs from running second-team reps and drills all the time. 

 

I suspect its a bit of both, plop will out think himself and get away from Harris for long stretches on end. The Demski plays tend to come in bunches as well. Nichols came back from injury though and wolitarski was seemingly in his blind spot. Then a fist full of weeks later he starts going to him and its the same production if not better then what we saw with streveler. 

Our offense is also seemingly designed to open up one or two guys and if that doesn't work check down to the rest. Defenses shifting how they play us opens and closes doors. How they played streveler isnt how they played Nichols. How they played Nichols when he came back wasn't the same as when he started to find a groove again. 

Nichols and plop compound each others success and failures. Both have a tendency to get extremely passive, both can really work a fast-paced offense and drive the ball downfield.  The longer a QB and OC are together the more they have to fill their gaps. Because more and more other teams know what they do, when they do it and what they are bad at. The offense doesnt have any notable new weapons, and the OL is seeing the biggest roll over in their mutual era. A lot of pressure will be on plop and nichols to do more with less. If they succeed then they deserve more of the credit then theyve have gotten before. If they dont, the duo probably gets split up.

[Colin Unger]

4 hours ago, 17to85 said:

So you think the game plan against the Stamps in the playoffs was just fine? Be ultra conservative and try and win by the other team making more mistakes than you do? That **** works against the Riders (where the offense did nothing as well) but it doesn't work against teams as well rounded as Calgary. Same **** happened in the 2011 Grey Cup game. Lapo tried to let the D win rather than letting the offense try and help them win. 

 

Down by 2 or 3 scores Lapo is a hell of an OC, tied or leading is way too passive. 

Probably why when the D was giving up 500 yards in playoff games the offense was putting up big numbers too.

I think a more aggressive gameplan and we would have lost the game worse.  We had a couple opportunities which were simply missed passes by Nichols and Streveler which could have won the game.     

Im hoping that Nichols will be back to 2017 form this season or we switch to Streveler and let him work through some growing pains for long term benefit. 

I also don’t expect us to face defenses this year in Calgary and Sask that were as dominant as last season so that’s going to be a factor as well.

[Colin Unger]

4 hours ago, AKAChip said:

I think the logical thing to do if your QB is either too injured or too bad to not completely blow games by throwing the ball to the opposing defensive line is not to completely neuter your playbook but rather staple him to the bench and give a QB with some confidence at least a couple of games. The stubbornness with Nichols absolutely cost the Bombers at least two wins last season. 

I agreed with the decision to stick with Nichols even though I’m I big believer in Streveler.  If there’s one thing I put more faith into than anything else it’s math.  And the math on raw rookies leading a team to the Grey Cup in the CFL is pretty bleak.  This year I’d be much more comfortable switching starting qbs if Nichols is still limited like last season. 

[Goalie]

19 minutes ago, Colin Unger said:

I agreed with the decision to stick with Nichols even though I’m I big believer in Streveler.  If there’s one thing I put more faith into than anything else it’s math.  And the math on raw rookies leading a team to the Grey Cup in the CFL is pretty bleak.  This year I’d be much more comfortable switching starting qbs if Nichols is still limited like last season. 

Id agree with that but Streveler looks like he could be a special QB.. 

Hes a dual threat. As a paying fan, football to me is part entertainment factor.. Bottom line.. Streveler was/is the more exciting player. 

Streveler throwing for 240 plus running for 100 ish.. Plus Harris going off for around the same is more exciting than Nichols just over 200 with 2 yards running. 

It pisses me off to no end in pro sports when teams generally favour struggling veterans to the more exciting younger prospect. WTAF.  Are you trying to win? Or not hurt the Vets feelings? 

Edited May 9, 2019 by Goalie

[Bigblue204]

15 hours ago, Colin Unger said:

That's a bit of a straw man.  "If you're not Dickenson you're average"...  I'd like to believe there is something in between Dickenson and average. And let's keep in mind that Lapo hasn't exactly been blessed with the best qb's while he's been an OC.  I don't think anyone would argue though that the QB's he's had haven't had their best seasons with him.  Nichols, Glenn, Durant, Jones.  I'd love to see Dickenson prove himself without an elite QB at some point so we can find out how good he actually is. June Jones is more impressive to me at this point. 

 

Dickenson has always had at least two of these - All star QB, All Star RB, All Star WR, Multiple All stars on Oline, and dominate Defense. Now outside of the D, is it Dickenson making the all stars, or the all stars making Dickenson?

[Goalie]

1 minute ago, Bigblue204 said:

Dickenson has always had at least two of these - All star QB, All Star RB, All Star WR, Multiple All stars on Oline, and dominate Defense. Now outside of the D, is it Dickenson making the all stars, or the all stars making Dickenson?

With all that talent one could argue Calgary should have won more Grey Cups... Its all of the above. 

[Colin Unger]

2 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

Dickenson has always had at least two of these - All star QB, All Star RB, All Star WR, Multiple All stars on Oline, and dominate Defense. Now outside of the D, is it Dickenson making the all stars, or the all stars making Dickenson?

And how much of the it is a carry over from Huffnagel? 

[Floyd]

Lucky Whitehead!!!  I'm excited to see him

[Mr Dee]

Ed Tait - He's a receiver and returner with 30 NFL games with the Dallas Cowboys to his credit.

Somewhere, I can see Clint Eastwood asking that ‘lucky’ question.

Edited May 9, 2019 by Mr Dee

[nate007]

4 minutes ago, Floyd said:

Lucky Whitehead!!!  I'm excited to see him

Me too. He got a raw deal from Dallas when they released him before even knowing the details of his (completely bogus) charges.

[AKAChip]

49 minutes ago, Colin Unger said:

I agreed with the decision to stick with Nichols even though I’m I big believer in Streveler.  If there’s one thing I put more faith into than anything else it’s math.  And the math on raw rookies leading a team to the Grey Cup in the CFL is pretty bleak.  This year I’d be much more comfortable switching starting qbs if Nichols is still limited like last season. 

Continuing to play a badly struggling QB is an even bigger recipe for losing than playing a raw rookie. I’m not saying Streveler is Ray but rookie QBs have won before and with the rest of the team being largely dominant, it’s not like he’d have to play hero ball to succeed. In fact, that even with a dominant team at pretty much every other position we couldn’t get out of the West is as big an indictment of Nichols (and Lapo) than anything else. Of course, Calgary as a very good team but Nichols essentially needed to be merely average to give the Bombers a chance to win and he couldn’t even be that. Streveler didn’t have to light the world on fire to be an improvement. Especially when the main concern with rookie QBs is turnovers and Nichols was turning it over at a rate as bad as any non-Jennings QB.