GDT: Edmonton @ Winnipeg June 27, 2019

[AKAChip]

6 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

So here's the thing, people a nitpicking stats. Nichols has a history of being a game manager who doesnt take chances....sure, I agree.  He also has a history of LEADING an offence that scores more points then any other team....by a large margin.

So while completing 5 passes a half isnt the greatest strategy, there is literally nothing in the past that suggests it will continue. His past performances suggest, for the majority of time anyways, that he will put points on the board more effectively than other teams. Can someone show me a stat that's more important?

I mean, I’d argue it’s the opposite of nitpicking. He was somehow worse in the second half that he was in the first half, despite only completing five passes in the first. 

This is a stacked offence and one of the few teams in the CFL who both chooses to, and is capable of running the ball consistently. Last year, the Bombers lead the CFL in some offensive categories but faded in a massive way down the stretch. Every other Nichols season, they’ve been middle of the pack. We literally had a 75 yard scoring drive last game where Nichols threw for 0 yards. If you want to make the argument that because the Bombers in recent years win more than they lose and thus Nichols can’t be that bad, I don’t know what to tell you. Do you think he’s purposely sucking for most of the game except for the one or two plays that make up the point differential? This isn’t even getting into the specifics of all the things that Nichols is simply incapable of doing at this point, like JBR has mentioned on more than one occasion. 

[AKAChip]

5 minutes ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

Thar's some brutal evidence, I'd be amazed if Fenner lines up on the corner for their next game.

He will. 

[Bigblue204]

4 minutes ago, AKAChip said:

I mean, I’d argue it’s the opposite of nitpicking. He was somehow worse in the second half that he was in the first half, despite only completing five passes in the first. 

This is a stacked offence and one of the few teams in the CFL who both chooses to, and is capable of running the ball consistently. Last year, the Bombers lead the CFL in some offensive categories but faded in a massive way down the stretch. Every other Nichols season, they’ve been middle of the pack. We literally had a 75 yard scoring drive last game where Nichols threw for 0 yards. If you want to make the argument that because the Bombers in recent years win more than they lose and thus Nichols can’t be that bad, I don’t know what to tell you. Do you think he’s purposely sucking for most of the game except for the one or two plays that make up the point differential? This isn’t even getting into the specifics of all the things that Nichols is simply incapable of doing at this point, like JBR has mentioned on more than one occasion. 

Sorry, what's more important than scoring points? I'm not sure you answered my question. 

[AKAChip]

Just to put this in perspective and while I like Fenner, I’m not defending his performance but it’s amazing to me that there can be people who think Nichols is untouchable or at the very least capable of regular, capable QB play and should be given the benefit of the doubt as long as the team keeps winning while at the same time want Fenner benched. It’s comparing apples and oranges but Nichols was at least as bad as Fenner was yesterday and Fenner has historically been one of the better players at his position in the league. 

[AKAChip]

1 minute ago, Bigblue204 said:

Sorry, what's more important than scoring points? I'm not sure you answered my question. 

Scoring more points, which you would do with better QBing. This offence is going to score a reasonable number of points regardless of who is at QB. Hell, Streveler put up points every game he started last year and he was a 24 year old rookie literally forced into action. More than you can say about Nichols. 

[NorthernSkunk]

22 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

This all falls on LaPo's lap as it has for the past 4 seasons.  It's on him when our offense grinds to a halt with a lead.

Lapo ain't the one missing the throws.

 

[JuranBoldenRules]

15 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

So here's the thing, people a nitpicking stats. Nichols has a history of being a game manager who doesnt take chances....sure, I agree.  He also has a history of LEADING an offence that scores more points then any other team....by a large margin.

So while completing 5 passes a half isnt the greatest strategy, there is literally nothing in the past that suggests it will continue. His past performances suggest, for the majority of time anyways, that he will put points on the board more effectively than other teams. Can someone show me a stat that's more important?

Our scoring has been hugely reliant on field position, which I mean to an extent everyone's is, but ours even more.  Since 2016 the Bombers have been both the top team in special team exchange (punt kickoff & return net) and tops in turning the ball over on D.  Nichols was hugely efficient in the redzone in 2016 and 2017, lackluster last season.  Streveler became a significant factor for us in those situations last year and scored a lot of TD's.  Nichols has been very efficient when we've got to the redzone in 2019 through 2 games, and that's obviously very important.

If the factors controlled by ST and D aren't at that "best in the league" level we really struggle to win.  When we play the top teams in the league, past few years that's Calgary, Hamilton, Ottawa, Sask last year, we really struggle to win.  There's no margin for error, but those phases need to play at a crazy level to give Nichols a huge margin for error if we have a shot to win. 

Extended drives don't happen often for this offense.  There's also a very troubling tendency to go very long stretches with very few first downs and many consecutive two and outs.  This allows teams to make comebacks against us, even when we have a 2-3 possession lead and really need just one score to close it out.  There is a tendency to blame this on the defense but what happens is field position gradually becomes worse and worse.  We hand the opposition 7-8 possessions with essentially no push from our offense and it's not surprising that they put up 2-3 scores.

[NorthernSkunk]

22 hours ago, 17to85 said:

He had a **** game but still threw some touchdowns and scored enough to win an ugly game.at some point it isn't coincidence that Nichols always seems to do just enough to win....

Just not when we need that win to get to the cup game.

[JuranBoldenRules]

I don't know how Kowalski assigns some of those routes, but Alexander's targets/catches look pretty low to me.

[Nickthesizz]

I’m just wondering if some of these posters would rather have lost and the qb  throw for 300 at this point because this is getting kind of ridiculous.

Edited June 29, 2019 by Gotmilt

[AKAChip]

2 minutes ago, Gotmilt said:

I’m just wondering if some of these posters would rather have lost and the qb  throw for 300 at this point because this is getting kind of ridiculous.

You’re making false equivalencies. 

[17to85]

6 minutes ago, Gotmilt said:

I’m just wondering if some of these posters would rather have lost and the qb  throw for 300 at this point because this is getting kind of ridiculous.

It's just typical Winnipeg fans. No one is ever good enough for them. We sit Nichols for Streveler and he runs the same offense people will turn on him and scream for McGuire. This team is not going to be the high flying team they want ever because it's not built that way by the coaches. The coaches want to play a safe game and win the field position game, on the backs of good special teams in a lot of cases. This team will rarely blow anyone out, but as we have seen they will grind out wins. We are the CFL equivalent of a neutral zone trap nhl team.

[Bubba Zanetti]

31 minutes ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

Thar's some brutal evidence, I'd be amazed if Fenner lines up on the corner for their next game.

We all know o'shea and his blind love for vets. I'd be amazed if Fenner isn't starting next game at corner.

[17to85]

1 minute ago, Bubba Zanetti said:

We all know o'shea and his blind love for vets. I'd be amazed if Fenner isn't starting next game at corner.

I dunno, fenner probably gets some rope but if he keeps taking penalties that won't last.

[Nickthesizz]

9 minutes ago, AKAChip said:

You’re making false equivalencies. 

Nope I actually think I nailed it pretty close.

[Bubba Zanetti]

3 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

I dunno, fenner probably gets some rope but if he keeps taking penalties that won't last.

He'll probably get at least a couple more games is my guess.

[AKAChip]

7 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

It's just typical Winnipeg fans. No one is ever good enough for them. We sit Nichols for Streveler and he runs the same offense people will turn on him and scream for McGuire. This team is not going to be the high flying team they want ever because it's not built that way by the coaches. The coaches want to play a safe game and win the field position game, on the backs of good special teams in a lot of cases. This team will rarely blow anyone out, but as we have seen they will grind out wins. We are the CFL equivalent of a neutral zone trap nhl team.

Saying that this offence isn’t designed to be high-flying  makes it so Nichols will get off the hook for any performance as long as the team wins. This isn’t how football works. Do you really believe the gameplan is to barely outscore the opponent? This isn’t hockey where you can sell out defence for offence. In football, defence and offence have almost nothing to do with each other outside of occasional field position improvements. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

15 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

It's just typical Winnipeg fans. No one is ever good enough for them. We sit Nichols for Streveler and he runs the same offense people will turn on him and scream for McGuire. This team is not going to be the high flying team they want ever because it's not built that way by the coaches. The coaches want to play a safe game and win the field position game, on the backs of good special teams in a lot of cases. This team will rarely blow anyone out, but as we have seen they will grind out wins. We are the CFL equivalent of a neutral zone trap nhl team.

Disagree.  No offense is designed to go completely stagnant.  They are spending quite a lot on guys like Matthews, Adams to have a QB who can make a throw, they were in the market for receivers in the >$200,000 range.

Sure they don't want to turn the ball over, but I think they'd like to have more than 2 first downs per quarter.

[rebusrankin]

Is it worth using Streveler more as a change of pace/different look option? He brings a different look and as JBR stated we always seem to have 1 quarter-1 half where we do bumpkis on offense.

[Nickthesizz]

They need to be less predictable when playing with the lead. We play not to lose sometimes. When we’re leading in the 4th everybody and their grandma knows Harris is running on 1st down, second down will be a check down and they can have press coverage and don’t have to worry about anything over the top.

I agree we also struggle with the 15-20 yard plays, it’s either just enough for a first down or it’s a 50 yard touchdown nothing in between. Maybe if they can improve in those areas we will have a more complete offensive performance.

[Mark F]

1 hour ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

Thar's some brutal evidence, I'd be amazed if Fenner lines up on the corner for their next game.

he'll be defennerstrated, if he doesn't play better.

[NorthernSkunk]

What was the announced attendance for the game ?

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, NorthernSkunk said:

Lapo ain't the one missing the throws.

 

How'd you like Harris's performance in the last 5 minutes of that game? How many throws did he miss? How come he couldn't seal the deal? Their superstar qb choked when the game was on the line. Our so called crap qb won. It must drive you nuts. LOL.

[NorthernSkunk]

2 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

How'd you like Harris's performance in the last 5 minutes of that game? How many throws did he miss? How come he couldn't seal the deal? Their superstar qb choked when the game was on the line. Our so called crap qb won. It must drive you nuts. LOL.

The team won that game.... matt was just along for the ride.  And I love it when the Bombers win.... did it drive you nuts when matt lost the last game of last year LOL 

 

[Nickthesizz]

2 minutes ago, NorthernSkunk said:

The team won that game.... matt was just along for the ride.  And I love it when the Bombers win.... did it drive you nuts when matt lost the last game of last year LOL 

 

Nobody even knows what you’re talking about. Have a few more drinks.