GDT: Edmonton @ Winnipeg June 27, 2019

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

1 hour ago, Bigblue204 said:

Sorry, what's more important than scoring points? I'm not sure you answered my question. 

I think @AKAChip is saying that the Bomber Offence is really good at scoring, despite having Nichols as an "anchor" to hold the offence back. That if you were to put in a better quarter back - they would score more and more consistently. He's not wrong, a better QB would. Who he considers as better than Nichols? No clue, you'd have to ask him.

Edited June 29, 2019 by wanna-b-fanboy

[SpeedFlex27]

29 minutes ago, NorthernSkunk said:

The team won that game.... matt was just along for the ride.  And I love it when the Bombers win.... did it drive you nuts when matt lost the last game of last year LOL 

 

You are so full of it.

 

[Nickthesizz]

1 minute ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

You are so full of it.

 

He’s also not a bomber fan.

[SpeedFlex27]

8 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

I think @AKAChip is saying that the Bomber Offence is really good at scoring, despite having Nichols as an "anchor" to hold the offence back. That if you were to put in a better quarter back - they would score more and more consistently. He's not wrong, a better QB would. Who he considers as better than Nichols? No clue, you'd have to ask him.

Where are we going to find this "better qb'? Have you looked around at the qbs starting in this league. After the obvious 2 who would you want?

[SpeedFlex27]

1 minute ago, Gotmilt said:

He’s also not a bomber fan.

I'll leave that up to others here to decide that.

[AKAChip]

4 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Where are we going to find this "better qb'? Have you looked around at the qbs starting in this league. After the obvious 2 who would you want?

The offence wasn’t any worse with Streveler at the helm. He’s not perfect, but if he’s no worse now and there’s tangible upside, something Nichols doesn’t have, what’s the harm early in the season? I recognize it won’t happen, but it’s very easy to say there’s no one better when you know that there’s no chance Nichols is getting replaced barring injury. 

[SpeedFlex27]

3 minutes ago, AKAChip said:

The offence wasn’t any worse with Streveler at the helm. He’s not perfect, but if he’s no worse now and there’s tangible upside, something Nichols doesn’t have, what’s the harm early in the season? I recognize it won’t happen, but it’s very easy to say there’s no one better when you know that there’s no chance Nichols is getting replaced barring injury. 

Streveler has never shown he can throw the ball with any consistency & accuracy. He's a run first player.  Defenses can shut that down. We don't even know if he can read CFL defenses. Helluva short yardage & goal line qb but it isn't enough.  I'd like to see him get a chance to play but fans are annointhing him a saviour which is perhaps too early in his career for that.

[Guest J5V]

13 hours ago, AKAChip said:

That was your point? Sure as hell didn’t seem like it. 

Like I said earlier, this isn’t going to be productive. I completely agree this is a terrible era for CFL QBing. I suppose with a good enough team, any QB no matter how bad is capable of winning a championship. That doesn’t make me comfortable that Nichols won’t blow it. The Bombers had four(!) first downs last night that weren’t caused by an Edmonton penalty. Nichols completed five passes in the first half. It’s not sustainable in the CFL to have your defence not allow a single touchdown. 

Do not misconstrue this as being unhappy with winning a game. But Nichols isn’t even good enough to be considered a “game manager”, a term he clearly takes offence to. For every game where he’s unspectacular but good enough, there’s at least one where the team literally wins in spite of him or loses because of him. That’s what happened at the Banjo Bowl, it’s what happened in the WSF and it will certainly happen again. It wouldn’t be as big a big deal if we didn’t have a 29 year drought and a roster that is likely the best in the league at nearly every other position. We’re 2-0 and I’m very happy, but yesterday’s game is a blow out with competent QB play. Even with the two Harris fumbles. You lose that game 9 out of 10 times but because the D was amazing and we hung on for dear life Nichols can’t be criticized for a terrible performance? 

You're not wrong here and Nichols wasn't happy with his performance. He had a bad game. All QBs have them. But he is more mobile than he was last year and that bodes well. He has loads of experience too which can only help. You don't see the procedure penalties, the "no end" penalties, the time count penalties, etc. In that sense he is a game manager. I want to give him the chance he has earned to show he can amp it up and play at a higher level. That said, he doesn't have an endless leash. If he continues to struggle long term I'll be looking for Streveler. 

[AKAChip]

Just now, SpeedFlex27 said:

Streveler has never shown he can throw the ball with any consistency & accuracy. He's a run first player.  Defenses can shut that down. We don't even know if he can read CFL defenses. Helluva short yardage & goal line qb but it isn't enough.  I'd like to see him get a chance to play but fans are annointhing him a saviour which is perhaps too early in his career for that.

I don’t know, he ran the offence fairly well in his starts last season. And the offence rarely bogs down for stretches when he’s in the game, something that happens with Nichols frequently. Small sample size, sure but a sample nonetheless. I think you’ll find I’ve never once anointed him the saviour. Just think he’s as good a prospect we’ve brought in at the position in some time. I don’t love how often he looks to run but I think he gets too much crap for that. He hasn’t shown a reluctance to throw downfield either. 

[AKAChip]

5 minutes ago, J5V said:

You're not wrong here and Nichols wasn't happy with his performance. He had a bad game. All QBs have them. But he is more mobile than he was last year and that bodes well. He has loads of experience too which can only help. You don't see the procedure penalties, the "no end" penalties, the time count penalties, etc. In that sense he is a game manager. I want to give him the chance he has earned to show he can amp it up and play at a higher level. That said, he doesn't have an endless leash. If he continues to struggle long term I'll be looking for Streveler. 

Ok. And my argument ultimately comes down to one simple point: we don’t know how Nichols will fare later in the season and it’s theoretically possible that he picks up his game significantly. It’s impossible to know until it happens. I’m just skeptical that it will happen given the available evidence from the previous two seasons. 

[Floyd]

Still hoping for a 1a/1b  scenario... can’t see Lapo going for it though

[TBURGESS]

It comes down  to an average to below average QB on a good to great team will get lots of wins. An average to below average QB  on an average to below average team won't get very many wins. The difference is the team, not the QB.

[Atomic]

No coach in the world is sitting his starting QB when he is 2-0.

[SpeedFlex27]

9 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

It comes down  to an average to below average QB on a good to great team will get lots of wins. An average to below average QB  on an average to below average team won't get very many wins. The difference is the team, not the QB.

Okay who would you trade Nichols for off of a CFL roster? Has to be another qb. Give us your take on that?

Edited June 29, 2019 by SpeedFlex27

[Tracker]

We had a version of this Nichols/Streveler debate when Willy was in the last of his death throes here. It was painfully obvious that Willy had lost all of his mojo and Nichols was an unknown quantity. It is not quite the same, as Nichols is not in the same dire straights as Willy but the concerns are that Nichols is beginning to show some worrisome traits and we do not know what Big Chris's ceiling is. Nichols deserves a chance to work himself out if this funk but we cannot expect the defence to bail him out every game. If Nchols continues to struggle against Ottawa, serious questions need to be asked about his ability to lead the team to the Grey Cup. Apart from Fenner, the rest of the team appears to have the right stuff, and this circumstance may not happen again, so it may be now or never. Nichols has shown that he can be a good quarterback but the question is, is he good enough?

And the only place Fenner should be lining up is at  the UI office. He looked as bad last game as any DB we have had of late, and we have had some real turkeys.

[Floyd]

3 minutes ago, Tracker said:

We had a version of this Nichols/Streveler debate when Willy was in the last of his death throes here. It was painfully obvious that Willy had lost all of his mojo and Nichols was an unknown quantity. It is not quite the same, as Nichols is not in the same dire straights as Willy but the concerns are that Nichols is beginning to show some worrisome traits and we do not know what Big Chris's ceiling is. Nichols deserves a chance to work himself out if this funk but we cannot expect the defence to bail him out every game. If Nchols continues to struggle against Ottawa, serious questions need to be asked about his ability to lead the team to the Grey Cup. Apart from Fenner, the rest of the team appears to have the right stuff, and this circumstance may not happen again, so it may be now or never. Nichols has shown that he can be a good quarterback but the question is, is he good enough?

And the only place Fenner should be lining up is at  the UI office. He looked as bad last game as any DB we have had of late, and we have had some real turkeys.

My worry this year is this talk of ‘mobility’ and Lapo’s lack of playaction/screens for a big chunk of last game

nichols needs Harris on his game to buy that extra second 

that being said I do think Edmonton’s D is the best in the league ... and we won with Andrew Harris completely off his game 

[Mike]

16 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Okay who would you trade Nichols for off of a CFL roster? Has to be another qb. Give us your take on that?

Mitchell, Reilly, Masoli, Harris

[Guest J5V]

53 minutes ago, AKAChip said:

Ok. And my argument ultimately comes down to one simple point: we don’t know how Nichols will fare later in the season and it’s theoretically possible that he picks up his game significantly. It’s impossible to know until it happens. I’m just skeptical that it will happen given the available evidence from the previous two seasons. 

Couldn't agree more. As Speedflex was saying, Nichols likely struggled through a significant knee injury last year. 2017 he was very good. I'm hoping he can find his A game again. If not, show me what Streveler can do. How long the leash is, is the question. Knowing O'Shea, it's considerable.

[Tracker]

6 minutes ago, Floyd said:

My worry this year is this talk of ‘mobility’ and Lapo’s lack of playaction/screens for a big chunk of last game. Nichols needs Harris on his game to buy that extra second 

that being said I do think Edmonton’s D is the best in the league ... and we won with Andrew Harris completely off his game 

Disagree in that I think that the Bomber defence is as good as anyone's and once Fenner is replaced, it should be better.

[Guest J5V]

28 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

It comes down  to an average to below average QB on a good to great team will get lots of wins. An average to below average QB  on an average to below average team won't get very many wins. The difference is the team, not the QB.

Sorry but, and with all due respect ...

[AKAChip]

26 minutes ago, Atomic said:

No coach in the world is sitting his starting QB when he is 2-0.

And they shouldn’t. But the point is that the wins won’t continue against good teams with a similar QB performance. Even against a mediocre team like the Esks, it took a ton of fortunate circumstances to win that game. 

Edited June 29, 2019 by AKAChip

[Atomic]

6 minutes ago, AKAChip said:

And they shouldn’t. But the point is that the wins won’t continue against good teams with a similar QB performance. Even against a mediocre team like the Esks, it took a ton of fortunate circumstances to win that game. 

If the Esks are mediocre then who is good? No one?

[Tracker]

26 minutes ago, Atomic said:

No coach in the world is sitting his starting QB when he is 2-0.

Disagree. I've seen it happen often in the CFL and NFL when the team is winning by a nose and the quarterbacking is sub-par. Its sort of taking your car for a long drive and it sputters and gasps along but gets there. With your logic, you would refuel it and hit the road again. Nichols has to return to his 2017 form to take us to the Promised Land.

[Super Duper Negatron]

41 minutes ago, Atomic said:

No coach in the world is sitting his starting QB when he is 2-0.

A coach already did. Didn't Nichols sit for Reilly even though they were winning?

[Brandon]

I don't think Nichols is anywhere near Willy post beatdown. 

I'd just feel more comfortable if he could string several 10-20 yard passes in a row. 

Watching Harris and Masoli, it feels like they can chew up the middle of the field with ease while we struggle.

Whoever said Streveler was inaccurate is out to lunch. Nichols is more accurate on the long bombs but the short and medium Chris can actually throw a bullet and hit a guy in stride.