Matt Nichols Discredited Too Much? Passing Yards Are Meaningless

[66 Chevelle]

7 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Just rattling your chains a bit.. LOL. I still think Nichols can get it done but my confidence that he can is greatly shaken. I'm not ready to give up on him yet, though. I also have come to realize that our HC is one of the most stubborn people out there. He'll continue to play Nichols, no matter how bad he plays & he won't play Streveler even if the team is up big or down big just to give him playing time. We have an offensive coordinator who goes for broke when the score is close then inexplicably goes back into his protective play calling shell & sits on 14 point leads. Meanwhile, our DC calls blitz packages & never varies from them even if the other qb recognizes & kills us. Or plays a soft zone & suddenly 350 yards passing  is thrust upon us. I can't do a thing to stop what O'Shea does as a coach so why should I worry about it? Getting bent out of shape just seems so exhausting.

No problem, lol...  You know, as much as I use to despise Nichols I have to admit that during games 3, 4, and 5 he showed me that me can be quite a capable QB when given a better game plan to execute. He'll never be an elite QB but he can be good enough to get job done.

i truly believe that Lapo doesn't trust him. After the INT in against the Ti-Cats Lapo really dumbed down the offense, back to what we became accustom to in 2018, way too predictable and playing under the chains in that dink and dunk passing scheme. If you notice, in both of our losses  Harris was the number 1 targeted receiver, again, much like last year.

in those three games, 3, 4, and 5, he did show that his weaknesses could be lessened with a more dynamic game plan, one that gets everyone involved with layered pass routes which created space for the receivers to work and larger throwing windows for Nichols. I have no clue how Lapo or O'Shea can't see this and give him more of the same.

we had a balance offensive attacked that kept the defense off balance and having to actually work to stop us. That us, until we had a decent lead and Lapo went to his prevent offense, lol.

I'm rooting for Nichols though, there's too much talent on this team to let it all go to hell in a hand basket....

[66 Chevelle]

7 hours ago, Noeller said:

In defense of myself and 17to85, I was getting married this weekend and he was a groomsman in our wedding party.... 

Great, an opportunity to use my favorite joke...

you know why divorces cost so much?

because they're worth it!

but seriously, congrats on finding that special someone to spend the rest of your life with. I wish you both a lifetime of nothing but happiness together...

[SpeedFlex27]

1 minute ago, 66 Chevelle said:

No problem, lol...  You know, as much as I use to despise Nichols I have to admit that during games 3, 4, and 5 he showed me that me can be quite a capable QB when given a better game plan to execute. He'll never be an elite QB but he can be good enough to get job done.

i truly believe that Lapo doesn't trust him. After the INT in against the Ti-Cats Lapo really dumbed down the offense, back to what we became accustom to in 2018, way too predictable and playing under the chains in that dink and dunk passing scheme. If you notice, in both of our losses  Harris was the number 1 targeted receiver, again, much like last year.

in those three games, 3, 4, and 5, he did show that his weaknesses could be lessened with a more dynamic game plan, one that gets everyone involved with layered pass routes which created space for the receivers to work and larger throwing windows for Nichols. I have no clue how Lapo or O'Shea can't see this and give him more of the same.

we had a balance offensive attacked that kept the defense off balance and having to actually work to stop us. That us, until we had a decent lead and Lapo went to his prevent offense, lol.

I'm rooting for Nichols though, there's too much talent on this team to let it all go to hell in a hand basket....

I agree. He's the best we have & I'll cheer for the guy as much as I cheer for Harris or any other player on the team. No other qb is out there that can help us. We're now into our 30th season without winning the Grey Cup. I just want us to win a championship.  I just wonder what Walters will think as a GM if we go out early again from the playoffs. Would he make an off season move coaching wise? Would he make a trade or sign a FA qb? Interesting times ahead.

[66 Chevelle]

4 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I agree. He's the best we have & I'll cheer for the guy as much as I cheer for Harris or any other player on the team. No other qb is out there that can help us. We're now into our 30th season without winning the Grey Cup. I just want us to win a championship.  I just wonder what Walters will think as a GM if we go out early again from the playoffs. Would he make an off season move coaching wise? Would he make a trade or sign a FA qb? Interesting times ahead.

The whole Walters thing is interesting to me...  To me it seems like Walters approaches this whole team building thing like a business. He has a plan going into the off season and he sticks to it and makes his decision with absolutely no emotion. Which for me is a good thing, he has no problem drawing that line in the sand and then sticking to it...

that's not to say that he isn't willing to pay up for a guy he wants but he approaches it overall in a dollars and cents manner. I think he's done a great job in assembling a very good team while having to make tough choices because of SMS. That being said, I don't see him following in the footsteps of Calgary or BC and spending that kind of coin for a QB.

Nichols is signed thru next season so he is kind of driving his own destiny. If he can get it back on track and get the team to a solid winning record overall, I think he's save regardless of playoff performance. You know O'Shea will be in his corner because a winning season likely continues to keep him employed in Winnipeg. We're not that far removed from those lean years so team success will continue to be job 1 as it keeps the wolves at a safe distance.

Plus, there isn't anyone else out there to sign, at least not at the moment. O'Shea and Lapo have done nothing to prepare Streveler to take over so he is likely gone after this season because I think someone will be willing to give him a shot at being #1 and Walters is going to want to spend the kind of money it will take to keep him and have him as a back up.

like you said, it should be interesting... But we will know early enough, Nichols is due a large bonus payment Jan. 15th....

[Guest J5V]

This kind of thinking reminds me of a quote from Jerry Rice ...

“The Enemy of the best is the good. If you're always settling with what's good, you'll never be the best.” 

[AKAChip]

9 hours ago, 17to85 said:

But even when he says that you dismiss it. No for folks like you Nichols can't win. 

You saying this doesn’t make it true. Even when he says he didn’t play well, he has to add on an excuse to justify it. He can’t help himself. 

[17to85]

Reason, not excuse.

[pigseye]

The Oline has been swiss cheese the last two games, all the problems start and end there, imo.

 

[Mark H.]

14 minutes ago, pigseye said:

The Oline has been swiss cheese the last two games, all the problems start and end there, imo.

 

I agree - but he does need to be able to make some plays when he's not completely clean in the pocket - plays other than dumping it off to Harris. 

[AKAChip]

15 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Reason, not excuse.

We will have to agree to disagree. 

[pigseye]

1 minute ago, Mark H. said:

I agree - but he does need to be able to make some plays when he's not completely clean in the pocket - plays other than dumping it off to Harris. 

I don't think he is that type of quarterback, just not physically gifted enough, imo.

 

[AKAChip]

Nichols requires a completely clean pocket to be even remotely effective. He’s the type of QB who makes his line look far worse than they are because essentially any pressure wrecks the play. 

[Goalie]

40 minutes ago, AKAChip said:

Nichols requires a completely clean pocket to be even remotely effective. He’s the type of QB who makes his line look far worse than they are because essentially any pressure wrecks the play. 

Agreed. He gets that deer in headlights look right away sometimes, has no escapability. The book is out on Nichols now.. Send pressure.. Cuz at the slightest bit of pressure he folds. 

[Mark H.]

^^

Then there needs to another receiver besides Harris running a hot route on almost every play.  Teams are starting to figure it out - blitz and make sure Harris does not get a first down most of the time.  There needs to be someone cutting their pattern short and getting in behind the linebackers - the way a guy named Milt used to do it. 

[Goalie]

4 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

^^

Then there needs to another receiver besides Harris running a hot route on almost every play.  Teams are starting to figure it out - blitz and make sure Harris does not get a first down most of the time.  There needs to be someone cutting their pattern short and getting in behind the linebackers - the way a guy named Milt used to do it. 

Lawler was doing that last game and every throw he got in his direction he had to turn in to gumby just to try to catch it cuz Nichols accuracy was so off. Lucky Whitehead wide open.. Nobody around.. Had to make a nice catch cuz the throw was so poor.. 

If your QB cant throw an accurate pass.. Does it matter? Cuz the last 2 games now.. Nichols accuracy has been poor. Is he hurt? Broken hand? 

I also notice watching other games... QBs always lead the receiver so he can run under it and keep going.. With us.. Its like timing is always off cuz our guys are literally standing still. 

Edited August 6, 2019 by Goalie

[Mark H.]

5 minutes ago, Goalie said:

I also notice watching other games... QBs always lead the receiver so he can run under it and keep going.. With us.. Its like timing is always off cuz our guys are literally standing still. 

And it makes our guys appear to be slow, when they’re as fast or faster than any receiving crew out there - they just don’t have a QB throwing them open. 

[Goalie]

1 hour ago, pigseye said:

The Oline has been swiss cheese the last two games, all the problems start and end there, imo.

 

Hmm. They havent been great but how does that play a role in Nichols not being able to complete a pass more than 5 yards? 

The problems start and end with the QB.. Cuz this isn't something new with Nichols..  This was happening last year also when we had the best Oline in the league? 

I dont get the oline blame... Really dont.. How is it their fault our QB cant throw an accurate pass? I mean even when they give him time hes looked like crap. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

OL was not good vs Hamilton, but was fine against Toronto.  Nichols did not see a lot of heat, had tons of time and was cycling through his reads then dumping off to Harris. 

Really issue comes down to Toronto playing quarters coverage and taking away deep shots, Bombers have very little intermediate passing game with lack of trust in Nichols to hit tight windows, throw behinds and other throws that potentially put ball in harms way if slight bit inaccurate.  That intermediate passing game is really important in having a balanced offense, if it's not there very easy to defend passing game in general.  Bombers have the receivers/backs to do damn near everything, you've got Lawler, Wolitarsky, Matthews who are BIG targets.  You've got Whitehead and Demski who bring a lot of speed and YAC potential once they have the ball, you've got Petermann who can do everything but is especially reliable in the middle and also a guy who tends to gain YAC, they had Rasheed Bailey dressed who looks to profile as a thicker Denmark type of steady guy.  If a QB can't make the throws to enable this offense to function pretty seamlessly I think that's a tremendous problem in isolation of the rest of the team.

Lapo's excuse for not riding Harris at 20-0 was incredibly faulty and gives some insight into his mindset.  Mostly it's just sickening to hear the excuses given what he has to work with.  See bluebombers.com.

[NorthernSkunk]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

Reason, not excuse.

The reason he ain't good enough ?

[Bigblue204]

28 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Hmm. They havent been great but how does that play a role in Nichols not being able to complete a pass more than 5 yards? 

The problems start and end with the QB.. Cuz this isn't something new with Nichols..  This was happening last year also when we had the best Oline in the league? 

I dont get the oline blame... Really dont.. How is it their fault our QB cant throw an accurate pass? I mean even when they give him time hes looked like crap. 

If you cant understand how Oline play affects the qb, you should really go to a football 101 course wherever you can find one.

[trueBlue83]

59 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Lawler was doing that last game and every throw he got in his direction he had to turn in to gumby just to try to catch it cuz Nichols accuracy was so off. Lucky Whitehead wide open.. Nobody around.. Had to make a nice catch cuz the throw was so poor.. 

If your QB cant throw an accurate pass.. Does it matter? Cuz the last 2 games now.. Nichols accuracy has been poor. Is he hurt? Broken hand? 

I also notice watching other games... QBs always lead the receiver so he can run under it and keep going.. With us.. Its like timing is always off cuz our guys are literally standing still. 

Teams had him figured out half way through 2017... you pressure and take away Harris, and you're going to have success against the Bombers.

His accuracy has been awful... chucks it to the sidelines so often when the pocket even remotely starts to collapse.  This is why I truly believe that the more game time Streveler gets, the more he's going to figure it out.   He's a threat to run, which when he rolls out, is going to get attention from the linebacking corps.  If he can get them to commit to him running, or even freeze them while finding someone downfield, it's going to open up the mid - deep plays.   With Nichols, there's zero threat of that happening because he's too slow to roll out and create any time for himself.  If he rolls out, he's tossing into the 2nd row just to get rid of it, not trying to guide a guy open downfield like the elite QBs can!

Edited August 6, 2019 by trueBlue83

[Bigblue204]

Who could have guessed that a qb wouldn't like pressure....truly ground breaking stuff on the forum these days.

[Mark H.]

1 minute ago, Bigblue204 said:

Who could have guessed that a qb wouldn't like pressure....truly ground breaking stuff on the forum these days.

Just say we’re 5 - 2, then 

[Doublezero]

15 minutes ago, trueBlue83 said:

Teams had him figured out half way through 2017... you pressure and take away Harris, and you're going to have success against the Bombers.

His accuracy has been awful... chucks it to the sidelines so often when the pocket even remotely starts to collapse.  This is why I truly believe that the more game time Streveler gets, the more he's going to figure it out.   He's a threat to run, which when he rolls out, is going to get attention from the linebacking corps.  If he can get them to commit to him running, or even freeze them while finding someone downfield, it's going to open up the mid - deep plays.   With Nichols, there's zero threat of that happening because he's too slow to roll out and create any time for himself.  If he rolls out, he's tossing into the 2nd row just to get rid of it, not trying to guide a guy open downfield like the elite QBs can!

Coaches, even the most stubborn ones, can see this too. Matty must know he's on thin ice. How will he respond to the looming possibility of being replaced by Streveler as the starter?  He will either continue to discombobulate or rise up and play better. Calgary will be a good test of his mental toughness.

[Bigblue204]

6 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

Just say we’re 5 - 2, then 

I dont know. I prefer, we're 0-2 the last two weeks with no possible hope of making the playoffs.