Matt Nichols Discredited Too Much? Passing Yards Are Meaningless

[NorthernSkunk]

22 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

Who could have guessed that a qb wouldn't like pressure....truly ground breaking stuff on the forum these days.

I think it is more about him not being able to handle it....

[Bigblue204]

2 minutes ago, NorthernSkunk said:

I think it is more about him not being able to handle it....

It's just such a foreign concept. Hopefully Lapo will adjust, I'm sure now that the secret is out that a qb doesnt do well under pressure every DC in the league will plan to pressure him.

[66 Chevelle]

8 hours ago, J5V said:

This kind of thinking reminds me of a quote from Jerry Rice ...

“The Enemy of the best is the good. If you're always settling with what's good, you'll never be the best.” 

Then you will probably like this one as well...

when losing becomes acceptable it also becomes the standard....

[Guest J5V]

12 minutes ago, 66 Chevelle said:

Then you will probably like this one as well...

when losing becomes acceptable it also becomes the standard....

Absolutely. Point is, are we trying to win a championship or just settling for being competitive because if it's the latter, then I'll quit investing emotionally. I thought we were trying to win it all. I mean, it has been 29 long years. 

[WBBFanWest]

19 minutes ago, 66 Chevelle said:

Then you will probably like this one as well...

when losing becomes acceptable it also becomes the standard....

and, of course: "I'm to drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Harland Sanders

[Bigblue204]

1 hour ago, J5V said:

Absolutely. Point is, are we trying to win a championship or just settling for being competitive because if it's the latter, then I'll quit investing emotionally. I thought we were trying to win it all. I mean, it has been 29 long years. 

I get this. And I feel the same. I'm just not sure how losing game 7 of 18 changes the overall goal? In fact I would bet that it doesnt at all. I know losing to the last place team sucks, but when good teams play badly....theyll generally lose. 

Is the goal to win every regular season game? Or to get to the playoffs and fight for the GC? If people thought 18-0 was even slightly a possibility, they were delusional. I'd rather this team lose to the Argos and ticats than the stamps and esks. 

The only time we will really see if Nichols and this team has what it takes to win a GC is October-November. Everything else is just preparing for that. As of right now they're still in a good position. 

[AKAChip]

3 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

I get this. And I feel the same. I'm just not sure how losing game 7 of 18 changes the overall goal? In fact I would bet that it doesnt at all. I know losing to the last place team sucks, but when good teams play badly....theyll generally lose. 

Is the goal to win every regular season game? Or to get to the playoffs and fight for the GC? If people thought 18-0 was even slightly a possibility, they were delusional. I'd rather this team lose to the Argos and ticats than the stamps and esks. 

The only time we will really see if Nichols and this team has what it takes to win a GC is October-November. Everything else is just preparing for that. As of right now they're still in a good position. 

The counter to this would be, with this core how many more years can we waste using the whole “time will tell” excuse? Nichols is who he is. It’s clear that even with this stacked offence, he frequently isn’t even adequate enough to beat a previously winless, mess of a team. How much more do we have to wait and see? This more or less happens every year. 

Edited August 7, 2019 by AKAChip

[Pete Catan's Ghost]

20 hours ago, Noeller said:

Thanks fellas... Was a whole Bombers themed wedding, and they really ****** everything on Thursday night. Still found a way to have some fun... #ManyManyManyBeers

Pilsner?

[Brandon]

The o line in Toronto was great. Harris had huge holes and Nichols had time. 

Stop making excuses. 

As I said before he had time and kept throwing way off the mark. 

The Gumby comparison is absolutely perfect. 

[Tracker]

8 hours ago, pigseye said:

The Oline has been swiss cheese the last two games, all the problems start and end there, imo.

 

No question the O-line stunk against Hamilton, but against Toronto, Nichols had all the time a competent quarterback needed. Nichols has no excuse/reason/justification/rationale for his performance. 

[Mark H.]

1 hour ago, Bigblue204 said:

I get this. And I feel the same. I'm just not sure how losing game 7 of 18 changes the overall goal? In fact I would bet that it doesnt at all. I know losing to the last place team sucks, but when good teams play badly....theyll generally lose. 

Is the goal to win every regular season game? Or to get to the playoffs and fight for the GC? If people thought 18-0 was even slightly a possibility, they were delusional. I'd rather this team lose to the Argos and ticats than the stamps and esks. 

The only time we will really see if Nichols and this team has what it takes to win a GC is October-November. Everything else is just preparing for that. As of right now they're still in a good position. 

The way they lost is concerning - it’s a movie we’ve seen before.  

[Tracker]

9 hours ago, pigseye said:

The Oline has been swiss cheese the last two games, all the problems start and end there, imo.

 

No question the O-line stunk against Hamilton, but against Toronto, Nichols had all the time a competent quarterback needed. Nichols has no excuse/reason/justification/rationale for his performance. 

[17to85]

2 hours ago, Pete Catan's Ghost said:

Pilsner?

Haha if he was a pilsner drinker his wife never woulda married him.

[Goalie]

8 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

If you cant understand how Oline play affects the qb, you should really go to a football 101 course wherever you can find one.

The Oline? The guys who blocked for harris all night? Nichols wasn't under pressure all game long vs Argos.. Ya they had pressure at times but it wasnt constantly. ABN tho.  Anyone But Nichols

[Eternal optimist]

 

2 hours ago, AKAChip said:

The counter to this would be, with this core how many more years can we waste using the whole “time will tell” excuse? Nichols is who he is. It’s clear that even with this stacked offence, he frequently isn’t even adequate enough to beat a previous winless, mess of a team. How much more do we have to wait and see? This more or less happens every year. 

It's the devil you know vs. the devil you don't...they could make the switch and end up worse off in the long run. Besides, there are other facets of our O that haven't performed well.. Matthews only had his first TD reception in the 4th against the Argos, despite his injury-riddled season and inconsistent play, nobody seems to be calling for his head.

[JuranBoldenRules]

2 hours ago, AKAChip said:

The counter to this would be, with this core how many more years can we waste using the whole “time will tell” excuse? Nichols is who he is. It’s clear that even with this stacked offence, he frequently isn’t even adequate enough to beat a previous winless, mess of a team. How much more do we have to wait and see? This more or less happens every year. 

This team is built to be this team for exactly 1 season.  Sure some guys are just starting three year deals, but about 1/3 of the team will be free agents at the end of this season, including many key Canadians.

[17to85]

I still say the biggest impediment to winning a cup is our offensive and defensive coordinators.

Cripes remember the change that happened to Drew Willy the more time he spent with Lapo and how Nichols was a breath of fresh air? And now the things people are all over Nichols for sounds a lot like the things they were on Willy for? Immobile, checks down all the time... can't improvise... maybe it is time for people to consider that Lapo is a **** OC for a qbs development.

[AKAChip]

1 minute ago, 17to85 said:

I still say the biggest impediment to winning a cup is our offensive and defensive coordinators.

Cripes remember the change that happened to Drew Willy the more time he spent with Lapo and how Nichols was a breath of fresh air? And now the things people are all over Nichols for sounds a lot like the things they were on Willy for? Immobile, checks down all the time... can't improvise... maybe it is time for people to consider that Lapo is a **** OC for a qbs development.

Or maybe that Nichols isn’t all that much better than Willy was. No one is suggesting that Lapo is great. Most reasonable people on here agree that he’s largely a mess, but your hatred of Lapo is making it so you think that bad players are bad because he makes them bad. There’s a lot of blame at the feet of both Lapo and Nichols. This is the guy Nichols was in Edmonton as well. He has one great season in his career. Mediocre to bad QBs have good or great stretches or seasons all the time. He’s resting on a season from two years ago and we’re going to pay the price for it. 

[Mark H.]

9 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

I still say the biggest impediment to winning a cup is our offensive and defensive coordinators.

Cripes remember the change that happened to Drew Willy the more time he spent with Lapo and how Nichols was a breath of fresh air? And now the things people are all over Nichols for sounds a lot like the things they were on Willy for? Immobile, checks down all the time... can't improvise... maybe it is time for people to consider that Lapo is a **** OC for a qbs development.

No - Nichols had his struggles when he first arrived.  In his and Willy’s defense though, they had no one who could stretch the field back in those days. 

[AKAChip]

27 minutes ago, Eternal optimist said:

 

It's the devil you know vs. the devil you don't...they could make the switch and end up worse off in the long run. Besides, there are other facets of our O that haven't performed well.. Matthews only had his first TD reception in the 4th against the Argos, despite his injury-riddled season and inconsistent play, nobody seems to be calling for his head.

Matthews deserves criticism as well, but it was a questionable move from the start to bring in a big money receiver who can’t play inside when we have one of the better guys at that position already with Adams. I like Matthews fine but he hardly has a massive history of great success as a bonafide number one. His best CFL season was eight years ago. 

But even if Matthews sucks all year, this team can still succeed. If Nichols plays like this in the playoffs, the team is completely screwed. I’m not even saying there’s a surefire better option, but would we not feel infinitely better about things had we seen Streveler worked into more sets either when Nichols was struggling or in blowouts? Or maybe had Streveler played more last season when Nichols was very clearly rushed back from injury? It’s a QB management  failure on multiple levels but it all comes down to the same ultimate conclusion: Nichols will have a number of good games and some great games every season, but overall he’s not going to get any better than he is now. I don’t expect it to happen because of how risk averse O’Shea seems to be but the glimmer of hope that I have is that he realizes fairly early in Willy’s final season that he wasn’t good enough so a move was made to replace him. It wasn’t perfect, but it was a respectable attempt. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

The nice thing about Matthews is they got him signed in low 6 figures with decent bonus structure, very little up front, because he literally had no market.  It was very low risk for the Bombers, and that's really the only way he fit in here.

[Bigblue204]

3 hours ago, AKAChip said:

The counter to this would be, with this core how many more years can we waste using the whole “time will tell” excuse? Nichols is who he is. It’s clear that even with this stacked offence, he frequently isn’t even adequate enough to beat a previously winless, mess of a team. How much more do we have to wait and see? This more or less happens every year. 

I meant like, time will tell this year, like by october/November we will know.

[AKAChip]

Just now, Bigblue204 said:

I meant like, time will tell this year, like by october/November we will know.

Right, and my concern would be that by then it will likely be too late to do anything about it. 

[Bigblue204]

1 hour ago, Goalie said:

The Oline? The guys who blocked for harris all night? Nichols wasn't under pressure all game long vs Argos.. Ya they had pressure at times but it wasnt constantly. ABN tho.  Anyone But Nichols

Please go find a post of mine where I say this isnt Nichols fault....I'll wait. 

 It's never one thing. Multiple things go right or wrong on each and every play that will determine how that play works out. And it all starts and stops with the Oline.

[Guest J5V]

7 minutes ago, AKAChip said:

Matthews deserves criticism as well, but it was a questionable move from the start to bring in a big money receiver who can’t play inside when we have one of the better guys at that position already with Adams. I like Matthews fine but he hardly has a massive history of great success as a bonafide number one. His best CFL season was eight years ago. 

But even if Matthews sucks all year, this team can still succeed. If Nichols plays like this in the playoffs, the team is completely screwed. I’m not even saying there’s a surefire better option, but would we not feel infinitely better about things had we seen Streveler worked into more sets either when Nichols was struggling or in blowouts? Or maybe had Streveler played more last season when Nichols was very clearly rushed back from injury? It’s a QB management  failure on multiple levels but it all comes down to the same ultimate conclusion: Nichols will have a number of good games and some great games every season, but overall he’s not going to get any better than he is now. I don’t expect it to happen because of how risk averse O’Shea seems to be but the glimmer of hope that I have is that he realizes fairly early in Willy’s final season that he wasn’t good enough so a move was made to replace him. It wasn’t perfect, but it was a respectable attempt. 

The difference is Willy was a good QB who took an absolute pounding due to a crap Olines and should have been given some relief but O'Shea just kept sending him out there for terrible beatings. He finally cowered like a beaten dog that pissed itself whenever it knew another beating was coming. He never got over it. With Matt Nichols there haven't been the beatings because he has been protected, for the most part, by good Olines. What you see is the real Matt, a not very good QB who has no excuses and is being exposed as what he is -- an easy QB to defend against.