Matt Nichols Discredited Too Much? Passing Yards Are Meaningless

[Guest J5V]

28 minutes ago, USABomberfan said:

Terms like "shell-shocked" and "turtling" and several others you can find in the thread have been thrown around loosely in regards to Nichols.  Not much evidence to support them either.

Those, IMO are the examples of trying to manufacture darts to try and "nail him to the wall" with and hence make defenders of him look like they're saying Nichols can do no wrong.

It's all banter common to a discussion forum of this nature. I don't have a problem with it. It only gets really silly when the bad language, personal attacks, name calling, and insults start flying. The signal-to-noise ratio gets askew and it becomes unbearable. It's almost always the usual suspects too. 

[17to85]

1 minute ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

You'd think we're 0-4.

That's just it, we're having the best start to a season in ages and people are bitching more than ever. 

[TBURGESS]

Personally, I have very few problems with the way Nichols has played most of this year. I also think that we'd have won as many games this year and last with Streveler at QB. That's not taking a shot at Nichols. It's saying the team is good enough to win with or without Nichols. I am happy when we win with or without Nichols.

Folks take it personally that other fans of the team don't see Nichols as anything more than a game manager (Which he is). They take it personally when I and others dare to say that other QB's had good games. They take everything that isn't Nichols praise as shitting on him and then jump in to 'protect his honour', usually by attacking the poster not the post. That's what turns these threads into 23 pages of bitching and complaining.

 

[Guest J5V]

Just now, 17to85 said:

That's just it, we're having the best start to a season in ages and people are bitching more than ever. 

Really? I haven't seen much bitching. Not like in the past. 

[SpeedFlex27]

Just now, J5V said:

Really? I haven't seen much bitching. Not like in the past. 

Like I said, the same people continually.

[USABomberfan]

17 minutes ago, J5V said:

It's all banter common to a discussion forum of this nature. I don't have a problem with it. It only gets really silly when the bad language, personal attacks, name calling, and insults start flying. The signal-to-noise ratio gets askew and it becomes unbearable. It's almost always the usual suspects too. 

Maybe, but loosely throwing stuff out there without proof can make people look silly.  My position is most of the knocks on Nichols are not provable.

[17to85]

11 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

olks take it personally that other fans of the team don't see Nichols as anything more than a game manager (Which he is). They take it personally when I and others dare to say that other QB's had good games. They take everything that isn't Nichols praise as shitting on him and then jump in to 'protect his honour', usually by attacking the poster not the post. That's what turns these threads into 23 pages of bitching and complaining.

No you are wrong. There are very few people that pump Nichols up as being one of the elite qbs in the game. The arguments come from people like you falsely arguing that Nichols didn't play well based on whatever subjective statistics you come up with and praise other quarterbacks because of whatever statistics you come up with when they didn't play that well either. 

See the problem for people like you, is that you have no consistency. You view the Bombers with a hyper critical eye which you don't turn on other teams as well. You are much more lax in your judgement of other teams than the Bombers. Which is why you always find yourself in these arguments. 

[Mr Dee]

14 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

I also think that we'd have won as many games this year and last with Streveler at QB.

Possible, but entirely without basis. And you are devaluing what Nichols brings to the table. Yes, the team is good, but Nichols is the leader out there and fully understands our system. The system would have to change for Streveler to succeed and he still is not experienced enough. 

[Rod Black]

7 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

No, the problem with Skunk & Burg is that the backup qb is always better... till he ain't. Then they turn on him & think the new backup is better... till he ain't.  And so on... And they both will turn on Streveler as it's inevitable.

I’d say that’s the nature of the beast. The complaints say more about the poster than it does about the quarterback. Neither of them would understand the concept. 

Edited July 14, 2019 by Rod Black

[NorthernSkunk]

11 minutes ago, Rod Black said:

You said you haven’t been able to watch because your Glumkieville tv hasnt been hooked up yet. What player that touches a ball as much as any qb doesn’t get a few dings? 

Did you gather this objective data from another casual fan scientific research survey? 

Bob Irving Doug brown and reading Bomber stuff.  

[NorthernSkunk]

9 minutes ago, Mr Dee said:

Possible, but entirely without basis. And you are devaluing what Nichols brings to the table. Yes, the team is good, but Nichols is the leader out there and fully understands our system. The system would have to change for Streveler to succeed and he still is not experienced enough. 

Yes Nichols is the leader..... that is why come playoff time if he doesn't lead the team to the cup another season will have been wasted.  He hasn't won a cup anywhere yet has he,

[Rod Black]

Just now, NorthernSkunk said:

Yes Nichols is the leader..... that is why come playoff time if he doesn't lead the team to the cup another season will have been wasted.  He hasn't won a cup anywhere yet has he,

Using that logic, they never should have built a new stadium. The jewel of the the CFL. Never should be in the CFL. Never play a game. Using your logic, Milt Stegall is a bum. 

[NorthernSkunk]

Stegall is not a bum.  And he is not a grey cup champion. 

[Guest J5V]

10 minutes ago, USABomberfan said:

Maybe, but loosely throwing stuff out there without proof can make people look silly.  My position is most of the knocks on Nichols are not provable.

At the risk of beating a dead horse (queue gif) there is an argument to be made for playing and developing the backup QB, especially when the #1 has been dinged and even last year when he was damned near crippled. It's not like Streveler is a complete liability out there. The kid does some good things. I just don't get that part of the QB management strategy. Last game was a golden opportunity wasted as the Argos were not coming back in that game in spite of what O'Shea suggested. 

What I'm wondering, and no I have no proof, it's just a musing, but does Nichols get all butt-hurt if he doesn't get every single rep out there? Is he so afraid of losing his job that he'd rather play hurt than let another QB play? It sure seems that way sometimes.

[17to85]

15 minutes ago, NorthernSkunk said:

Yes Nichols is the leader..... that is why come playoff time if he doesn't lead the team to the cup another season will have been wasted.  He hasn't won a cup anywhere yet has he,

Why do you continuously ignore how pathetic the defense was his first 2 playoff seasons here? Why do you think it's Grey Cup or bust? Your attitude is what led us into the depths of the crap we saw. Always the mentality that you gotta win it all or blow it up. No chance to build stability, which is ultimately what wins multiple Grey Cup championships. 

[Rod Black]

14 minutes ago, NorthernSkunk said:

Stegall is not a bum.  And he is not a grey cup champion. 

You have grouped not winning a cup with 90% of the players that ever participate in the CFL. You wouldn’t dare call Stegall a bum, because every Bomber fan that lives would call you out as less than clueless. Because you have never attended a Bomber game, geography has no bearing in your case, and don’t watch the games you hardly qualify as a fan, just an emotional whiner. 

Edited July 14, 2019 by Rod Black

[Mark F]

55 minutes ago, J5V said:

It only gets really silly when the bad language, personal attacks, name calling, and insults start flying.

That's the best part!

[NorthernSkunk]

3 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Why do you continuously ignore how pathetic the defense was his first 2 playoff seasons here? Why do you think it's Grey Cup or bust? Your attitude is what led us into the depths of the crap we saw. Always the mentality that you gotta win it all or blow it up. No chance to build stability, which is ultimately what wins multiple Grey Cup championships. 

Like I said before if the defence or special teams aren't pulling their weight enough..... then that is when you need a QB who can put the team on his back and still get a win......  yes things are wayyyyyy more stable in Bomber land...it's been great !..... now let's complete this version of the rebuild and get that cup !

[USABomberfan]

28 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

Folks take it personally that other fans of the team don't see Nichols as anything more than a game manager (Which he is).

 

Here's where I think the problem with that was lying over the last year and why offense was taken to it.  It was not that he got called a game manager, it was that people seemed to get the notion that his being that or playing in the style he does cost us the West Final.  People seemed to believe that any other QB playing for us on that day would have won the game without any evidence to back that claim.  More so because:

1. The Stamps defense got downplayed.  They made the Redblacks offense look even worse the following week and I'm willing to bet they would have wrecked Anthony Calvillo in his prime.  They were that good.

2. People seemed to downplay the WRs getting blanket covered all day in that game and seemed to have it in their minds that just any good QB should have been able to complete passes all day there even if the throwing windows were nearly non-existent.

3. Even more so, a couple of us were discussing why Lapolice's game plan for this game was garbage and got telegraphed by the Stamps D.  Yet when discussed, the detractors just decided to ignore it because it didn't fit their narrative.

The problem wasn't Nichols being called a game manager, it was a narrative pumped that a game manager and specifically him could not ever get us to or win a Grey Cup.  That I believe was false when Bo Levi wasn't playing good either and could have lost that game if he didn't have the defense and special teams on his team that helped him win.

 

Anyway, that wasn't a good game for Nichols, but it's in the past now and the toughest defense he probably has to worry about staying ahead of this year is the Esks.  Assuming we're able to stay in front of them and force them to play the West Final here in IGF come November, I like his chances of beating them.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

4 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

I believe that the 'I Love Nichols' fans see everything that's not uber-positive as a slight against Nichols.

That may be your belief, but it is far from reality. 

It's the constant stream of nitpicky reasons to hate on Nichols while ignoring the rest of his body of work this year. 

You can't discount him as a bad QB by cherry picking stats or perceived shortcomings in a vacuum - people need to take his whole bodybof qork this year into consideration and stop with the "Yeah, buts".

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

52 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

I also think that we'd have won as many games this year and last with Streveler at QB.

I honestly think we would have lost that game against Edmonton with Strevs. That defence required a bit more seasoned experience to defeat.

[USABomberfan]

1 minute ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

I honestly think we would have lost that game against Edmonton with Strevs. That defence required a bit more seasoned experience to defeat.

And I also think we still lose that west final in Calgary with Strev.  He might have scrambled a little more, but that's a risky prospect going up against Alex Singleton who may have wrecked him.  He also may not have thrown the ball away, but if he gets risky and decides to throw it in tight windows, the Nichols detractors likely are railing on him for throwing picks right now.

[NorthernSkunk]

3 minutes ago, Rod Black said:

Wow. Sterling record. Have watched no games this year. 

 

Cjob has been great..... tv guy is coming Thursday..... and by the sounds of it lots of crappy football is being played right across the country so far,  so what have I really missed ?..... I hope the teams all pick it up soon and make it a competition.  

[17to85]

18 minutes ago, NorthernSkunk said:

Like I said before if the defence or special teams aren't pulling their weight enough..... then that is when you need a QB who can put the team on his back and still get a win......  yes things are wayyyyyy more stable in Bomber land...it's been great !..... now let's complete this version of the rebuild and get that cup !

Like how Mike Reilly, maybe the best QB in the league right now is putting the BC Lions on his back to win games for them?

[USABomberfan]

25 minutes ago, J5V said:

At the risk of beating a dead horse (queue gif) there is an argument to be made for playing and developing the backup QB, especially when the #1 has been dinged and even last year when he was damned near crippled. It's not like Streveler is a complete liability out there. The kid does some good things. I just don't get that part of the QB management strategy. Last game was a golden opportunity wasted as the Argos were not coming back in that game in spite of what O'Shea suggested. 

What I'm wondering, and no I have no proof, it's just a musing, but does Nichols get all butt-hurt if he doesn't get every single rep out there? Is he so afraid of losing his job that he'd rather play hurt than let another QB play? It sure seems that way sometimes.

I'm pretty sure just about every QB and player on this team wants to be out there every down.  It's called competitiveness, no different than Bighill no doubt being frustrated for having to sit it out.  But Nichols is a team player and he respects his coaches' decisions, so no, I don't buy Nichols getting butt hurt.

 

As I said, I highly disagreed with O'Shea not letting Strev take over the rest of the way.  But I don't doubt his claim that he wanted to keep his foot on the accelerator and not let the Argos get momentum.  Strev should have played more, but O'Shea is in charge of this, not Nichols.