Matt Nichols Discredited Too Much? Passing Yards Are Meaningless

[Rod Black]

1 minute ago, USABomberfan said:

I'm pretty sure just about every QB and player on this team wants to be out there every down.  It's called competitiveness, no different than Bighill no doubt being frustrated for having to sit it out.  But Nichols is a team player and he respects his coaches' decisions, so no, I don't buy Nichols getting butt hurt.

 

As I said, I highly disagreed with O'Shea not letting Strev take over the rest of the way.  But I don't doubt his claim that he wanted to keep his foot on the accelerator and not let the Argos get momentum.  Strev should have played more, but O'Shea is in charge of this, not Nichols.

Hierarchy is a real thing. 

[Guest J5V]

10 minutes ago, USABomberfan said:

Here's where I think the problem with that was lying over the last year and why offense was taken to it.  It was not that he got called a game manager, it was that people seemed to get the notion that his being that or playing in the style he does cost us the West Final.  People seemed to believe that any other QB playing for us on that day would have won the game without any evidence to back that claim.  More so because:

1. The Stamps defense got downplayed.  They made the Redblacks offense look even worse the following week and I'm willing to bet they would have wrecked Anthony Calvillo in his prime.  They were that good.

2. People seemed to downplay the WRs getting blanket covered all day in that game and seemed to have it in their minds that just any good QB should have been able to complete passes all day there even if the throwing windows were nearly non-existent.

3. Even more so, a couple of us were discussing why Lapolice's game plan for this game was garbage and got telegraphed by the Stamps D.  Yet when discussed, the detractors just decided to ignore it because it didn't fit their narrative.

The problem wasn't Nichols being called a game manager, it was a narrative pumped that a game manager and specifically him could not ever get us to or win a Grey Cup.  That I believe was false when Bo Levi wasn't playing good either and could have lost that game if he didn't have the defense and special teams on his team that helped him win.

 

Anyway, that wasn't a good game for Nichols, but it's in the past now and the toughest defense he probably has to worry about staying ahead of this year is the Esks.  Assuming we're able to stay in front of them and force them to play the West Final here in IGF come November, I like his chances of beating them.

So do I but speaking of the WF last year, do you know what might have helped in that game against the Stamps D? A running QB. An offense better geared to run against that D (Streveler, Harris, Demski) might have fared much better than an immobile QB that sat in the pocket all game staring at blanketed receivers. Don't you think we are going to run into a similar scenario this year at some point? I'm not knocking Nichols, I'm just suggesting that a game plan should be developed where we can take better advantage of all the tools we have at our disposal and if that means playing someone other than Nichols at QB, so be it.

[USABomberfan]

2 minutes ago, J5V said:

So do I but speaking of the WF last year, do you know what might have helped in that game against the Stamps D? A running QB. An offense better geared to run against that D (Streveler, Harris, Demski) might have fared much better than an immobile QB that sat in the pocket all game staring at blanketed receivers. Don't you think we are going to run into a similar scenario this year at some point? I'm not knocking Nichols, I'm just suggesting that a game plan should be developed where we can take better advantage of all the tools we have at our disposal and if that means playing someone other than Nichols at QB, so be it.

Addressed a little more on scenarios in post 937 above.

[Guest J5V]

Just now, USABomberfan said:

Addressed a little more on scenarios in post 937 above.

Yeah sorry, just saw that. Good points. Singleton was arguably the best MLB in the league last year and there simply may have been no way to beat Calgary. My fear this year, especially after seeing Bo go down, is that Nichols could get hurt and that Streveler won't be seasoned enough to deliver us a cup even with our supporting cast. Especially if Nichols gets hurt late in the year.

I would love to see a scenario where we wrap up the West as early as possible and Nichols gets plenty of rest and Streveler gets plenty of reps so both are at their best come playoff time. Fingers crossed.

[NorthernSkunk]

18 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Like how Mike Reilly, maybe the best QB in the league right now is putting the BC Lions on his back to win games for them?

I never said he was the best QB in the league.  And BC sucks....  so that's all good.

[NorthernSkunk]

22 minutes ago, Rod Black said:

Your oblivious. You’ve missed the Bombers and Nichols and Harris and .....playing very well. 

And on the radio it sounds like special teams and the defence are doing even better.  

[17to85]

45 minutes ago, NorthernSkunk said:

I never said he was the best QB in the league.  And BC sucks....  so that's all good.

No, I said Reilly was maybe the best qb in the league, and a guy that has been very capable of putting a team on his back and dragging them to wins throughout his career... and yet here he is on a team that sucks not doing jack ****. 

So don't go on about needing a qb to drag a team to wins, it doesn't work like that. Good teams win. Good TEAMS. A QB is only one part of it, and clearly what Nichols is doing works pretty well considering how often the Bombers win with him. 

[17to85]

1 hour ago, J5V said:

So do I but speaking of the WF last year, do you know what might have helped in that game against the Stamps D? A running QB. An offense better geared to run against that D (Streveler, Harris, Demski) might have fared much better than an immobile QB that sat in the pocket all game staring at blanketed receivers. Don't you think we are going to run into a similar scenario this year at some point? I'm not knocking Nichols, I'm just suggesting that a game plan should be developed where we can take better advantage of all the tools we have at our disposal and if that means playing someone other than Nichols at QB, so be it.

The game plan was basically Harris vs. Singleton and Singleton won the matchup on the day. Lapo needed to recognize that the run heavy, short passing to Harris game wasn't working and changed it up, but he didn't and the offense failed as a result. 

[NorthernSkunk]

8 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

No, I said Reilly was maybe the best qb in the league, and a guy that has been very capable of putting a team on his back and dragging them to wins throughout his career... and yet here he is on a team that sucks not doing jack ****. 

So don't go on about needing a qb to drag a team to wins, it doesn't work like that. Good teams win. Good TEAMS. A QB is only one part of it, and clearly what Nichols is doing works pretty well considering how often the Bombers win with him. 

Your response basically ends when you say " maybe "......  and what I am saying is that it would just be nice to know matt could do it if we needed it.   Especially if it's a playoff game and time is  running out.

[NorthernSkunk]

And what would prove Reilly is the best ?..... I hope it's ain't that cfl stat page for QBs....lol

[WBBFanWest]

2 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

Personally, I have very few problems with the way Nichols has played most of this year. I also think that we'd have won as many games this year and last with Streveler at QB. That's not taking a shot at Nichols. It's saying the team is good enough to win with or without Nichols. I am happy when we win with or without Nichols.

Folks take it personally that other fans of the team don't see Nichols as anything more than a game manager (Which he is). They take it personally when I and others dare to say that other QB's had good games. They take everything that isn't Nichols praise as shitting on him and then jump in to 'protect his honour', usually by attacking the poster not the post. That's what turns these threads into 23 pages of bitching and complaining.

 

You know what, I think you're wrong.  You know how I know that?  Because the people that actually know what the hell they are taking about (the coaching staff) put Nichols in and kept him in until they were sure the game was out of reach.  He got a bit dinged last game and if they really believed that they were fine without him, that Streveler gave then the same chance at winning,  they could have given him the day off, but they didn't.   You can have your opinion, but it's a totally uneducated one and not supported whatsoever by the facts.  Other than that, it's fine.

[TBURGESS]

4 hours ago, 17to85 said:

No you are wrong. There are very few people that pump Nichols up as being one of the elite qbs in the game. The arguments come from people like you falsely arguing that Nichols didn't play well based on whatever subjective statistics you come up with and praise other quarterbacks because of whatever statistics you come up with when they didn't play that well either. 

See the problem for people like you, is that you have no consistency. You view the Bombers with a hyper critical eye which you don't turn on other teams as well. You are much more lax in your judgement of other teams than the Bombers. Which is why you always find yourself in these arguments. 

Nope. You've got it wrong yet again. I'm very consistent in my view of QB's and I view them all the same way no matter who they play for. I know that stats don't tell the whole story. That yards after beat down aren't the same as yards when the game is in the balance. That an accurate throw is an accurate throw no matter who throws it. That an off target throw is an off target throw, no matter who throws it.

Its fans like you who give Bomber QB's the benefit of all doubt, while actively looking for something wrong in QB's who play for other teams that lack consistency in judgment.

Edited July 15, 2019 by TBURGESS

[17to85]

35 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

Nope. You've got it wrong yet again. I'm very consistent in my view of QB's and I view them all the same way no matter who they play for. I know that stats don't tell the whole story. That yards after beat down aren't the same as yards when the game is in the balance. That an accurate throw is an accurate throw no matter who throws it. That an off target throw is an off target throw, no matter who throws it.

Its fans like you who give Bomber QB's the benefit of all doubt, while actively looking for something wrong in QB's who play for other teams that lack consistency in judgment.

No see we just view things differently. I am a bomber backer and I point out flaws in other teams. You do the opposite. Try and deny it, but you are only lying to yourself.

[USABomberfan]

4 minutes ago, NorthernSkunk said:

Him "thinking " he can is not enough..... I want him to " know" he can....,

and do you think blind people can't be fans of the game because they can't watch the game ?

One other reason I think he could this time around is because along with Adams, I believe he might have the best plethora of weapons to go up and make a clutch TD catch in playoff time.

For example, now we got Chris Matthews and Lucky Whitehead, 2 weapons that are upgrades over say Ryan Lankford and Clarence Denmark.  If we were behind and needed a TD, I could see him throwing it up in the endzone and allowing Matthews to come down with it.

You have to consider that one as well.

[Mike#2]

34 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

No see we just view things differently. I am a bomber backer and I point out flaws in other teams. You do the opposite. Try and deny it, but you are only lying to yourself.

You can be a bomber fan / backer and still talk about the weakness/weak spots on our team.  

To say otherwise is just kinda stupid.  

[Brandon]

Nichols despite not being able to string drives together is playing much better then guys like Masoli and Davis....  not a huge concern yet IMO. 

[USABomberfan]

2 minutes ago, Mike#2 said:

You can be a bomber fan / backer and still talk about the weakness/weak spots on our team.  

To say otherwise is just kinda stupid.  

The disagreement would be whether Nichols play would be one of those things.  To me, it's not.  To others it is, but that's where a lot of subjective talk comes in about his style.

[Goalie]

Matt Nichols is the best Bomber QB since Kevin Glenn. 

It doesn't say much about who came in between them but... In football its truly a team game... So, if you have a QB who puts up below average yards but has a 10 to 1 TD to INT ratio.. That's awesome. I just want to see more from him and the O (Lapo stop being so damn conservative ) 200 300 500 yards.. Who cares if we are winning, but at the same time, wanting more consistency from the O as a whole, the QB is the guy who touches the ball every O snap so when i talk Nichols, im talking Lapo.. OL, reveivers, backs.. Etc.. 

I want to see them kill a game with 2 3 minutes left.. Run out the clock on 0.

Lets win the TOP battles.. And have our O eating time while our D rests.. Right now our O is explosion play Harris or not much... D is on the field 2 much. The O needs to help them out more. 

[Rod Black]

Anyone care to wrap this topic up with some kind of consensus? 

[NorthernSkunk]

This topic won't end until the season is over.... and maybe not even then.

[Goalie]

31 minutes ago, Rod Black said:

Anyone care to wrap this topic up with some kind of consensus? 

The topic should never end. It wont until we find that consistency on O we should all want. 

[Rod Black]

23 minutes ago, Goalie said:

The topic should never end. It wont until we find that consistency on O we should all want. 

Sorry Goalie, your not speaking for me when you opine that this topic should never end. This thread was intended to be and invited controversial content and has evolved beyond meaningful points. It’s a dead horse. It’s problematic. In my opinion. Lol

Edited July 15, 2019 by Rod Black

[Rod Black]

Sorry JCon, I edited slightly while/after you reacted. 

Edited July 15, 2019 by Rod Black

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

2 hours ago, Mike#2 said:

You can be a bomber fan / backer and still talk about the weakness/weak spots on our team.  

To say otherwise is just kinda stupid.  

Agreed.

But to constantly point out "issues" of our team and rarely critique other teams and give them the benefit of the doubt constantly... well that is kinda stupid too.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

1 hour ago, Rod Black said:

Anyone care to wrap this topic up with some kind of consensus? 

Bombers are awesome and the riders suck!

Can I get a ******* AMEN!?

Edited July 15, 2019 by wanna-b-fanboy