Matt Nichols Discredited Too Much? Passing Yards Are Meaningless

[Rod Black]

1 minute ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Bombers are awesome and the riders suck?

There that. I know you watch the games. 

[Rod Black]

AMEN! 

[17to85]

2 hours ago, Mike#2 said:

You can be a bomber fan / backer and still talk about the weakness/weak spots on our team.  

To say otherwise is just kinda stupid.  

Oh no, we can talk about weaknesses, but they have to be grounded in reality, but that wasn't really what the comment was about. It was about being more critical of the bombers and over looking the issues on other teams. It's a thing that a lot of people do around these parts. 

You wanna know what I see as the weaknesses on this Bomber team? Right at the moment it's an offensive coordinator who gets in his own way sometimes and a defensive coordinator who doesn't disguise blitzes well and leaves a lot of space for completions. 

[USABomberfan]

6 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Agreed.

But to constantly point out "issues" of our team and rarely critique other teams and give them the benefit of the doubt constantly... well that is kinda stupid too.

Or, as gets pointed out, we'd rather the issues on our team that get criticized be real issues and not manufactured ones.  It may be at times a matter of perception as to whether or not certain issues are manufactured, but I do believe they do get manufactured out of thin air at times.  Some people thought Richie Hall's defense 2015-2017 or first half of 2018 was a manufactured crisis, but I disagreed because I felt the results spoke for themselves.  17to85 also noted this in bringing up Nichols dealing with bad defensive play in his first 2 playoff games.

In the points that TBurgess made about Nichols not being good at throwing deep balls last year, it may have been better to discuss why that was and why it's improved.  To me, I say it's because he did not have the talents of Whitehead and Matthews to throw to at the time and hence couldn't trust his guys apart from Adams to go get them.  I myself would never trust Lankford to run a route or make a catch, and neither do the Redblacks right now it seems.

And then of course as was mentioned, Nichols played poorly in the West Final, but the reasons for this were also discussed.  But either way, where would the fun be if we suddenly ran out of claims to debunk?

[Rod Black]

3 minutes ago, USABomberfan said:

Or, as gets pointed out, we'd rather the issues on our team that get criticized be real issues and not manufactured ones.  It may be at times a matter of perception as to whether or not certain issues are manufactured, but I do believe they do get manufactured out of thin air at times.  Some people thought Richie Hall's defense 2015-2017 or first half of 2018 was a manufactured crisis, but I disagreed because I felt the results spoke for themselves.  17to85 also noted this in bringing up Nichols dealing with bad defensive play in his first 2 playoff games.

In the points that TBurgess made about Nichols not being good at throwing deep balls last year, it may have been better to discuss why that was and why it's improved.  To me, I say it's because he did not have the talents of Whitehead and Matthews to throw to at the time and hence couldn't trust his guys apart from Adams to go get them.  I myself would never trust Lankford to run a route or make a catch, and neither do the Redblacks right now it seems.

And then of course as was mentioned, Nichols played poorly in the West Final, but the reasons for this were also discussed.  But either way, where would the fun be if we suddenly ran out of claims to debunk?

Donald, that’s the point 17 to 85 was making. Comments are reliable when grounded in reality. 

[USABomberfan]

4 minutes ago, Rod Black said:

Donald, that’s the point 17 to 85 was making. Comments are reliable when grounded in reality. 

Yup, and I sometimes like to use examples to expound upon points

[SpeedFlex27]

We can say the team played badly if we lose & no one should take offense as it would be true.

[USABomberfan]

Oh and one other consensus that I mentioned a bit earlier but perhaps could serve well to mention again ...

Look, I know we all wanted to see more of Streveler this last game, especially me personally.  I'm sorry it did not happen, and hopefully next time we start "smoking" our opponents it will.

But please ... And I say this kindly, please let's do away with the notion that Nichols is at fault for this in any way.  This is head coach Michael O'Shea's call 100℅ and should be football 101 here.

I'd suggest to those who are still upset about this to call in on his coach's show and tell him you want him to play Strev more when he has leads.  Who knows, maybe he'll take your requests into consideration.

[Rod Black]

1 minute ago, USABomberfan said:

Oh and one other consensus that I mentioned a bit earlier but perhaps could serve well to mention again ...

Look, I know we all wanted to see more of Streveler this last game, especially me personally.  I'm sorry it did not happen, and hopefully next time we start "smoking" our opponents it will.

But please ... And I say this kindly, please let's do away with the notion that Nichols is at fault for this in any way.  This is head coach Michael O'Shea's call 100℅ and should be football 101 here.

I'd suggest to those who are still upset about this to call in on his coach's show and tell him you want him to play Strev more when he has leads.  Who knows, maybe he'll take your requests into consideration.

Like I said previously, there is a hierarchy. Obviously you watch the games! 

[SpeedFlex27]

Just now, Rod Black said:

Like I said previously, there is a hierarchy. Obviously you watch the games! 

Coach has final say on everything.

[Rod Black]

Rebel’s and the marginalized hate hierarchies. 

 

[Guest J5V]

Good grief. You need hip waders to walk around in here, it's so thick and we are so full of it. 

[Guest J5V]

With apologies to Goalie ...

 

[Fatty Liver]

1 hour ago, USABomberfan said:

Oh and one other consensus that I mentioned a bit earlier but perhaps could serve well to mention again ...

Look, I know we all wanted to see more of Streveler this last game, especially me personally.  I'm sorry it did not happen, and hopefully next time we start "smoking" our opponents it will.

But please ... And I say this kindly, please let's do away with the notion that Nichols is at fault for this in any way.  This is head coach Michael O'Shea's call 100℅ and should be football 101 here.

I'd suggest to those who are still upset about this to call in on his coach's show and tell him you want him to play Strev more when he has leads.  Who knows, maybe he'll take your requests into consideration.

I do wonder how much say Harris has in the amount of playing time he receives.  It was quite clear when he played in BC he was not pleased about sharing reps. with Stefan Logan even though Logan was a helluva good RB at the time and no one can fault Wally for using that strategy.  Could it be that Harris made it clear when he jumped to Wpg. that he wanted to be "the man" and even had it written into his contract that he would not share the load without first giving  permission?    

I don't know how else to explain the reason he would stay in the Argo game until under 2 mins. remained on the clock before passing off to Augustine.  Harris may not admit he cares about stats. but you have to believe he's driven enough to want to leave behind a legacy as one of the best Natl. RB's to ever play in this league, and the best way to do that is to accumulate the career stats. that will speak for themselves long after he's retired.   As TSN points out every week he's quickly climbing a number of all-time lists and even Harris must realize he's running out of time to accomplish his goals.

[Mr Dee]

6 hours ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

Harris may not admit he cares about stats. but you have to believe he's driven enough to want to leave behind a legacy as one of the best Natl. RB's to ever play in this league

My bone to pick with Harris’s playing time came in 2016 when MOS pulled him from the game with a scant 26 yards to crack the 1000 yard mark. That was achievable, but as we know, O’Shea calls the shots and numbers are only numbers to him.

I don’t know the circumstances in 2013 with BC, but he was only 2 yards short of rushing for a 1000 yards.

These examples would have given Harris 6 1000-yard seasons and as Maxwell Smart would say “missed it by that much.”

Harris just wants to do his best, and play a role in winning for the team. He’s achieving that and I believe that’s #1 for him at this point of his career.

[USABomberfan]

7 hours ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

Could it be that Harris made it clear when he jumped to Wpg. that he wanted to be "the man" and even had it written into his contract that he would not share the load without first giving  permission?

It's interesting conjecture and an idea I'm willing to entertain.  But I very much doubt it as this would be wildly unheard of and unprecedented.

I do believe utilizing split loads in the backfield between multiple backs to keep your main workhorse fresh for late in the season is something that should be done as it is utilized in most of football today.  But it could be O'Shea/Lapolice have gone a bit more old school with what they done with Harris and decided his taking the bulk of the load is what they want.

Sure, maybe Harris wasn't too happy about his role potentially diminished in BC's offense, though I don't know what the stats on the load sharing between him and Logan were to say whether that assertion could be proven.  But as I believe with the Nichols Streveler playing time decisions, I believe as well that MOS and PLAP are still the sole authorities on Harris getting the bulk of the touches or not.  Little disappointed Flanders didn't get more though.

[Booch]

It's a team game and a team win..or loss..in the 2 playoffs before last yr Nichols played great. Well over 300 yards passing....30+ points scored...2 straight losses..last year in WSF a similar statline to this year (minus the 3+ TD's) as we played ultra conservative and took a shot when it was there and leaned on the dominant run which you do in cold weather playoff games and we won...WF was just a flat crappy performance all around and air blame Lapo on that

But anyway Nichols has performed in the playoffs for us well..more than well enough to win 3 games not just the 1 and who knows what the results would have been if they won those 2 other games.

Also of note if Oshea didnt elect to try that impossible field goal and let his offence get a few more yards..which they showed they could of that game we win that too.

This team was let down 3 times in playoffs before by the leaky defense...this year is looking to be not like that and if these guys get better and avoid injury as year goes on..this offence with the weapons..the quick strike ability and the beat u up run game just has to do what it's doing.. manage the game..dont cough up the ball and take the shots when they are there..i wouldn't change a thing other than not be so passive when up by a few scores

[Rod Black]

19 minutes ago, USABomberfan said:

It's interesting conjecture and an idea I'm willing to entertain.  But I very much doubt it as this would be wildly unheard of and unprecedented.

Actually it has happened. Obviously players are not strictly altruistic. He is entitled to a healthy ego. A healthy ego is a component of his success. If that means he has incentives to carry the rock or achieve milestones, let it happen in the proper circumstances. 

MOS is not the type of coach that appears to be noted for applying roadblocks to his crew, yet the contract would be written without MOS being identified as the coach. 

[USABomberfan]

1 minute ago, Rod Black said:

Actually it has happened. Obviously players are not strictly altruistic. He is entitled to a healthy ego. A healthy ego is a component of his success. If that means he has incentives to carry the rock or achieve milestones, let it happen in the proper circumstances. 

MOS is not the type of coach that appears to be noted for applying roadblocks to his crew, yet the contract would be written without MOS being identified as the coach. 

I stand corrected then as ... Well I could see how a player like Calvillo would have earned such a contract.  But I still haven't heard of this actually being the case in what we gave Andrew, but if so ... Well it is what it is.

[Rod Black]

1 minute ago, USABomberfan said:

I stand corrected then as ... Well I could see how a player like Calvillo would have earned such a contract.  But I still haven't heard of this actually being the case in what we gave Andrew, but if so ... Well it is what it is.

All TLB said was “Could it be...”. I’m agreeing it could have been... but have no knowledge of #33s contract. And it is what it is. 

[TrueBlue4ever]

10 hours ago, Goalie said:

The topic should never end. It wont until we find that consistency on O we should all want. 

Can we find some consensus on what "offensive consistency" is then? Offensive points scored? (#1 in the league, btw). Keeping the team on the field, as measured maybe by, I don't know, time of possession? (32:51 average at this juncture, #2 in the league, btw). Balance between passing and running attack? (#1 in passing TDs and QB efficiency, #2 in overall rushing)

[Rod Black]

7 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Can we find some consensus on what "offensive consistency" is then? Offensive points scored? (#1 in the league, btw). Keeping the team on the field, as measured maybe by, I don't know, time of possession? (32:51 average at this juncture, #2 in the league, btw). Balance between passing and running attack? (#1 in passing TDs and QB efficiency, #2 in overall rushing)

The Nichols haters are more than happy to continue the bashing. They appear to be headed down the path that elongating a dead horse topic somehow will make the team better. 

[NorthernSkunk]

I have not seen one person in here who says they hate Matt.  This is a very civil board compared to others out there.  It's what makes it fun to learn about the Bombers when I visit.

[Rod Black]

[Mike#2]

10 hours ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Agreed.

But to constantly point out "issues" of our team and rarely critique other teams and give them the benefit of the doubt constantly... well that is kinda stupid too.

Well I love our team and not the others so I focus mainly on our team.   I don’t follow all the transactions for the other teams or break down their games or play selection.  I care if we beat them or not.  

 

Im here because I’m a bomber fan and I enjoy the discussions.  I like the back and forth and enjoy dissecting parts of the game or team.  

 

But don’t ever  question my loyalty to the team.     Keep in mind there were a lot of #IMWT followers here and OB and I hated him and expressed my displeasure (different user name then ) with him and got railed on for not being s supporter.   I love the team, but I don’t have to love all the players /management to be a true fan.  I would argue it’s the opposite and that a true fan will call out those that need to be called out and not blindly follow bad management.