Matt Nichols Discredited Too Much? Passing Yards Are Meaningless

[NorthernSkunk]

Just now, Arnold_Palmer said:

Tougher opponents? Like the previously undefeated Edmonton Eskimo’s and Ottawa Redblacks. 

Yeh tougher teams than those down the road...

[USABomberfan]

32 minutes ago, NorthernSkunk said:

Yeh tougher teams than those down the road...

For the record, Edmonton arguably has the toughest defense he'll face all year.  Maybe the TiCats, though that's debatable.  But the 2018 Stampeders aren't out there anymore.

[Noeller]

33 minutes ago, NorthernSkunk said:

Yeh tougher teams than those down the road...

like who? The only team in Winnipeg's universe right now is Edmonton, and we not only beat them, but the game was never really in doubt. I feel like you're one of those people who, even if we win the GC, you're gonna say "Yeah, but we didn't win it the right way..."

[NorthernSkunk]

Just now, USABomberfan said:

For the record, Edmonton arguably has the toughest defense he'll face all year.  Maybe the TiCats, though that's debatable.  But the 2018 Stampeders aren't out there anymore.

I should have added in my comments somehow that all the teams will improve over the course of the season.  Some more than others.... but that could make it tougher down the road is all.

[NorthernSkunk]

2 minutes ago, Noeller said:

like who? The only team in Winnipeg's universe right now is Edmonton, and we not only beat them, but the game was never really in doubt. I feel like you're one of those people who, even if we win the GC, you're gonna say "Yeah, but we didn't win it the right way..."

nah..., I wouldn't do that.  I cheer for matt when the game starts and I want the team to win.

[The Classic]

13 hours ago, Rod Black said:

Page 27 and your becoming a little more assertive in your opinions. Maybe I just started noticing it more. Good for you dude! 

*Throws meat into a pit of angry internet dogs*

OR

Tequila: Just do shots all night, yeah, we dance and internet debate so sexy, the ladies love it.

[USABomberfan]

4 minutes ago, Noeller said:

like who? The only team in Winnipeg's universe right now is Edmonton, and we not only beat them, but the game was never really in doubt. I feel like you're one of those people who, even if we win the GC, you're gonna say "Yeah, but we didn't win it the right way..."

I believe his position is that Nichols needs to throw a game winning clutch TD in the WF or the Grey Cup for him to be a believer in him.  And if so, then fine, his prerogative.

But the point still stands that the deep ball myth has been debunked.

[do or die]

Look, I know people are disappointed that we are 0-4.  Yes, its frustrating that Nichols has thrown 10 picks and only 1 TD.  But its just too early to panic.  We need to keep our objectivity and composure, at this stressful time.

This thread needs more gin.

 

[Booch]

Thing is...we have beaten 2 undefeated teams...sign of a good team

Whipped the hopeless Argo's and it was never in doubt from the 3 minute mark...sign of good team

won season opener on the road...sign of good team

All the while racking up 30+ points for...1 pick and some very precision like work in the Red Zone...Like what...over 90% efficiency??

That tells me we have more than a capable QB to get us where we need to go...you have to remember basically prior to this year we were a one trick pony at receiver and had to rely on Harris....now...we have weapons that teams have to respect...and still have Harris to contend with...also Nichols looks a lot like 2016/2017 Nichols...where he was not hurt and pulled a lot of  games out of the fire for us for a win...and it's pretty obvious from his play last year that he wasn't right all year long..

but this year he appears to be back and has more talent to use....so if he plays smart ball...doesn't try to be a hero and fatten his stats...we will win 9 times out of ten and to have people be down on him after averaging 4 offensive TD's a game so far..throwing 10 TD's to 1 INT....and not really having a game in doubt after the first quarter of the season...well thats just baseless

we play Ott/Ham/T.O coming up next 3 game before our Calgary home game and if we play like we have been even with no overall improvement (which we will as season rolls on) we could be looking at a 7-0 record with that home match against CGY....Hamilton doesn't scare me and I think we will handle them rather easily

[Noeller]

9 minutes ago, do or die said:

Look, I know people are disappointed that we are 0-4.  Yes, its frustrating that Nichols has thrown 10 picks and only 1 TD.  But its just too early to panic.  We need to keep our objectivity and composure, at this stressful time.

This thread needs more gin.

 

[Rod Black]

13 minutes ago, do or die said:

Look, I know people are disappointed that we are 0-4.  Yes, its frustrating that Nichols has thrown 10 picks and only 1 TD.  But its just too early to panic.  We need to keep our objectivity and composure, at this stressful time.

This thread needs more gin.

 

[Wideleft]

 

 

 

[do or die]

My god, what have I done!

[TBURGESS]

16 hours ago, USABomberfan said:

I know, that Paul Lapolice, he's never called a bad game or put together a bad game plan.  Oh no no, he never ever called bad plays in the WF or left Nichols and Harris hanging out to dry there, nope nope, that never happened.

Nope, nothing to see here on Lapolice folks, and why?  Because we, the Nichols detractors say so.  Yup, that sums it up.

This is what you like to do. State something that folks never said or even suggested like your making some sort of point. Your thinking is too black and white. It's not Nichols or PLAP at fault all the time. I never suggested that PLAP should take no blame. Of course he's a problem some of the time. Receivers dropping balls and the other team making plays are also parts of the problem. The key here is that it's not always #BEBN.

Last year and years before that, Nichols couldn't hit the long ball with any degree of accuracy. You call that a myth over and over again, when it's a fact. He's been much better at it this year, but that doesn't change the past.

You make up scenarios up so nothing is Nichols fault. Receivers lining up wrong or running the wrong pattern don't magically turn bad throws into good ones nor does the receiver making tough catches. It's not an attempt to discredit Nichols. It's just an attempt to look at Nichols level of accuracy. If the accuracy stats don't match what you see, it's as likely you're seeing it wrong as it is that the stats are wrong.

[USABomberfan]

32 minutes ago, Booch said:

Thing is...we have beaten 2 undefeated teams...sign of a good team

Whipped the hopeless Argo's and it was never in doubt from the 3 minute mark...sign of good team

won season opener on the road...sign of good team

All the while racking up 30+ points for...1 pick and some very precision like work in the Red Zone...Like what...over 90% efficiency??

That tells me we have more than a capable QB to get us where we need to go...you have to remember basically prior to this year we were a one trick pony at receiver and had to rely on Harris....now...we have weapons that teams have to respect...and still have Harris to contend with...also Nichols looks a lot like 2016/2017 Nichols...where he was not hurt and pulled a lot of  games out of the fire for us for a win...and it's pretty obvious from his play last year that he wasn't right all year long..

but this year he appears to be back and has more talent to use....so if he plays smart ball...doesn't try to be a hero and fatten his stats...we will win 9 times out of ten and to have people be down on him after averaging 4 offensive TD's a game so far..throwing 10 TD's to 1 INT....and not really having a game in doubt after the first quarter of the season...well thats just baseless

we play Ott/Ham/T.O coming up next 3 game before our Calgary home game and if we play like we have been even with no overall improvement (which we will as season rolls on) we could be looking at a 7-0 record with that home match against CGY....Hamilton doesn't scare me and I think we will handle them rather easily

This, our team is as good as any of the best in the league and is showing why.  Smart QBing, allowing the playmakers to do their thing, and perhaps maybe even my own underrating of how effective our special teams are are huge ingredients to this.

Now does this mean we're going to go undefeated?  Absolutely not, but the path to the west so far is going through Winnipeg.  So long as we don't get ravaged by bad untimely injuries, or become subjected to too many brain farts by our head coach or offensive coordinator, I believe the West Final will be held right here in front of a packed crowd at IGF.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

15 hours ago, White Out said:

No one cares what your wife thinks. 

Why not? We read your blatherings and take what you think in consideration- why would you discount her thoughts?

[USABomberfan]

8 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

 

You make up scenarios up so nothing is Nichols fault. Receivers lining up wrong or running the wrong pattern don't magically turn bad throws into good ones nor does the receiver making tough catches. It's not an attempt to discredit Nichols. It's just an attempt to look at Nichols level of accuracy. If the accuracy stats don't match what you see, it's as likely you're seeing it wrong as it is that the stats are wrong.

Sure looks like you're the one obsessing with these accuracy figures, not me

[USABomberfan]

38 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

This is what you like to do. State something that folks never said or even suggested like your making some sort of point. Your thinking is too black and white. It's not Nichols or PLAP at fault all the time. I never suggested that PLAP should take no blame. Of course he's a problem some of the time. Receivers dropping balls and the other team making plays are also parts of the problem. The key here is that it's not always #BEBN.

Last year and years before that, Nichols couldn't hit the long ball with any degree of accuracy. You call that a myth over and over again, when it's a fact. He's been much better at it this year, but that doesn't change the past.

You make up scenarios up so nothing is Nichols fault. Receivers lining up wrong or running the wrong pattern don't magically turn bad throws into good ones nor does the receiver making tough catches. It's not an attempt to discredit Nichols. It's just an attempt to look at Nichols level of accuracy. If the accuracy stats don't match what you see, it's as likely you're seeing it wrong as it is that the stats are wrong.

1. So let me try and straighten first two bolded parts.  Do you speak for every single one of Nichols detractors and know what every single post that's ever been made on this forum critical of him has ever said?  Second part is your position, but would you project it onto every single one of Nichols critics or Lapo defenders?

2. Maybe all true, and obviously you don't like my terms of debunking myths or you have a different definition of it than me, so fine.  But can we both agree then that that narrative is not going to be brought up again this year since you yourself have just said "he's been much better at it this year?"

3. Please enlighten me on what scenarios I've ever made up for Nichols passes or ever specifically said every single completion he's made he's never ever needed a receiver to bail him out on.  Pretty sure just about every other QB whose played in this league could see that accuracy scale tip up and down all the time.  But really man, small deal anyway and only a big one to you.

Edited July 16, 2019 by USABomberfan

[TBURGESS]

43 minutes ago, USABomberfan said:

1. So let me try and straighten first two bolded parts.  Do you speak for every single one of Nichols detractors and know what every single post that's ever been made on this forum critical of him has ever said?  Second part is your position, but would you project it onto every single one of Nichols critics or Lapo defenders?

2. Maybe all true, and obviously you don't like my terms of debunking myths or you have a different definition of it than me, so fine.  But can we both agree then that that narrative is not going to be brought up again this year since you yourself have just said "he's been much better at it this year?"

3. Please enlighten me on what scenarios I've ever made up for Nichols passes or ever specifically said every single completion he's made he's never ever needed a receiver to bail him out on.  Pretty sure just about every other QB whose played in this league could see that accuracy scale tip up and down all the time.  But really man, small deal anyway and only a big one to you.

1. There you go again.. making stuff up and pretending it's some sort of point. I speak only for myself. I didn't suggest that PLAP should take no blame or that it was all on Nichols.

2. A myth is something that didn't happen, therefore your terminology is incorrect. No, being better this year doesn't equal never bringing it up again. The next time Nichols misses a few deep balls in a game, it will be brought up again.

3. I've already brought up the scenarios you've been using. I didn't say, suggest or mean 'every single completion'. Your wrong when you think that QB accuracy equals completions. 

All I'm basically doing is trying to correct your errors.

[USABomberfan]

38 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

1. There you go again.. making stuff up and pretending it's some sort of point. I speak only for myself. I didn't suggest that PLAP should take no blame or that it was all on Nichols.

2. A myth is something that didn't happen, therefore your terminology is incorrect. No, being better this year doesn't equal never bringing it up again. The next time Nichols misses a few deep balls in a game, it will be brought up again.

3. I've already brought up the scenarios you've been using. I didn't say, suggest or mean 'every single completion'. Your wrong when you think that QB accuracy equals completions. 

All I'm basically doing is trying to correct your errors.

1. Well see I don't, I was asking questions there, but thank you, I'll take that bolded part as my answer.

To go back and bring a little context here to the Lapolice post you were addressing, it was not even directed at you.  It was more directed at trueblue83 post 426 page 26, line about 17to85's take on Lapolice:

"In an earlier post he blamed the West Finalresult squarely on LaPo.... that's a joke"

Take the post there for what you will, I see it as an attempt to let Lapo off the hook, maybe you don't but hence my post more in response to that.

2. Well I think I know how you feel in regards to Nichols deep balls, but if I see any posts that show up saying or implying anything along the lines of "Nichols sucks at deep balls," yeah ya damn right I'm going to call those out as debunked myths whether or not he hits every single deep ball he throws on the money this year.

3. Good, I can agree with that.  But I still say QB accuracy measurements can be highly subjective things with inconsistencies at times.  But sure, I'm willing to look beyond simply the numbers of completions or completion ℅.

[USABomberfan]

Pretty sure I've seen many posts by posters like chip in game threads this year saying Nichols sucks at deep balls.  Those are myths being perpetuated.

[TBURGESS]

1 hour ago, USABomberfan said:

Pretty sure I've seen many posts by posters like chip in game threads this year saying Nichols sucks at deep balls.  Those are myths being perpetuated.

Look up the word myth. You're using it wrong.

[Bigblue204]

[Rod Black]

Ack! 

[USABomberfan]

22 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

Look up the word myth. You're using it wrong.

Yup like in this Google dictionary, among the relevant references, which is:

a widely held but false belief or idea

subtext under that,

an exaggerated or idealized conception of a person or thing

kinda like the one floating around last year and this year that Nichols permanently sucks at throwing deep balls