Matt Nichols Discredited Too Much? Passing Yards Are Meaningless

[Eternal optimist]

21 minutes ago, AKAChip said:

 It’s a QB management  failure.

Regarding management of our current and potential QBs, I agree that our organization both currently, and historically, has been horrendous at managing, and developing quarterbacking talent. Regardless of Nichols success/failure this year, Streveler has got to be the guy going forward, O'Shea's logic of essentially never pulling/resting starters has completely backfired in multiple scenarios, and worse it has resulted in our backups being greener than they need to be when called upon due to inevitable injuries.

[Eternal optimist]

1 minute ago, J5V said:

The difference is Willy was a good QB who took an absolute pounding due to a crap Olines.

Drew Willy never looked the same after his knee injury in 2015. Oddly enough, Nichols career has a similar story line, albeit with more talent around him (thus resulting in a better overall record).

[17to85]

48 minutes ago, AKAChip said:

Or maybe that Nichols isn’t all that much better than Willy was. No one is suggesting that Lapo is great. Most reasonable people on here agree that he’s largely a mess, but your hatred of Lapo is making it so you think that bad players are bad because he makes them bad. There’s a lot of blame at the feet of both Lapo and Nichols. This is the guy Nichols was in Edmonton as well. He has one great season in his career. Mediocre to bad QBs have good or great stretches or seasons all the time. He’s resting on a season from two years ago and we’re going to pay the price for it. 

Well for starters, I don't believe Nichols is a bad player so your argument really doesn't get off the ground there. Neither do I think Nichols is a great quarterback either. I think he's a guy a lot like Kevin Glenn where he can do enough to win games if the rest of the team is on board with that. 

So here is what I think, I think that Lapo is a horrible play caller, and that's been something that comes up every stop along the way. It's not that he's a bad coordinator, he is just a horrible in game coach, which makes it hard on his offense to run at a high efficiency regardless of who is behind centre. 

Look no further than BC for an example of a known good qb struggling without the support from a good game plan (because let's face it, Reilly could get a lot more help from his OC despite the talent problems on that team). 

Guys like you have written Nichols off as terrible and there's just no two ways about that. He's a guy who isn't terrible though, he just needs a lot of help to get the most out of him and right now he's not getting it from his OC who likes to play passive in close games or with a lead. It's the whole ******* reason he was fired as head coach here! 

[NorthernSkunk]

How many rings did Glenn get ?

[17to85]

11 minutes ago, NorthernSkunk said:

How many rings did Glenn get ?

Irrelevant. Besides that Nichols isn't nearly as mentally weak as Glenn. He's probably a less talented player with a stronger mental game which puts them on roughly equal footing. 

[Eternal optimist]

6 minutes ago, NorthernSkunk said:

How many rings did Glenn get ?

This is a terrible measure, winning a Grey Cup is a team effort. By your logic, Milt Stegall, Charles Roberts and Jack Jacobs are all bums

[Bubba Zanetti]

There seems to be a chicken/egg scenario. Is it Lapo calling garbage games or is it Nichols not being able to execute? I am no fan of Lapo but I refuse to believe after all his years in the league he has become braindead and is calling a bunch of 5 yard outs on 2nd and 8. I think its Nichols being too risk adverse and wanting to get rid of the ball too early before the plays have developed/guys get open. I remember last year after one of his shitshows he threw the receivers under the bus saying no one was open all game. Like give me a break. Maybe if you would hold onto the ball for more than 2 mississippis someone could get open for **** sakes. He's like the anti-Mike Reilly. Reilly will wait until the last possible second to throw just as a 300 pounder buries him into the turf. Not saying that's a better outcome but somewhere in the middle would be a nice spot for Nichols as opposed to dumping it off cause he felt a slight breeze.

Edited August 7, 2019 by Bubba Zanetti

[Bubba Zanetti]

5 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Irrelevant. Besides that Nichols isn't nearly as mentally weak as Glenn. He's probably a less talented player with a stronger mental game which puts them on roughly equal footing. 

I don't think Glenn was mentally weak, its just that he didn't give a ****. Nichols seems much more fragile. Crying to the papers about getting booed and all.

Edited August 7, 2019 by Bubba Zanetti

[Eternal optimist]

6 minutes ago, Bubba Zanetti said:

I don't think Glenn was mentally weak, its just that he didn't give a ****. Nichols seems much more fragile. Crying to the papers about getting booed and all.

Say what you want about his play, but he loves our city, his daughter's middle name is named after our city. People here say he's a crybaby, but nobody on this forum (except maybe Tburgess) has had even 1,000 people angry at them at the same time. That stuff stays with you, even if you are a professional.

[Bubba Zanetti]

1 minute ago, Eternal optimist said:

Say what you want about his play, but he loves our city, his daughter's middle name is named after our city. People here say he's a crybaby, but nobody on this forum (except maybe Tburgess) has had even 1,000 people angry at them at the same time. That stuff stays with you, even if you are a professional.

Absolutely. But as a professional you need to keep that stuff to yourself and rise above it. Use it for fuel.

[Tracker]

12 minutes ago, Eternal optimist said:

Say what you want about his play, but he loves our city, his daughter's middle name is named after our city. People here say he's a crybaby, but nobody on this forum (except maybe Tburgess) has had even 1,000 people angry at them at the same time. That stuff stays with you, even if you are a professional.

If you are hypersensitive to criticism, you should stay out of professional sports, stand-up comedy and politics. 

Edited August 7, 2019 by Tracker

[SpeedFlex27]

49 minutes ago, Eternal optimist said:

This is a terrible measure, winning a Grey Cup is a team effort. By your logic, Milt Stegall, Charles Roberts and Jack Jacobs are all bums

It's Skunk.

[NorthernSkunk]

It's just another stat.  

[17to85]

1 hour ago, Bubba Zanetti said:

I am no fan of Lapo but I refuse to believe after all his years in the league he has become braindead and is calling a bunch of 5 yard outs on 2nd and 8.

He didn't become anything, he's the same guy. 2002 #1 receiver on the team Milt Stegall, #2 Arland Bruce... #3 and #4 Charles Roberts and Mike Sellers. 

Dumping the ball off is what Lapo has always done. Cripes he did the exact same **** when he was head coach too. Remember all the complaining about guys running 7 yard patterns when they need 10 yards? He is the exact same guy he has always been. Can draw up a good playbook and must do a good job during the week, but as a play caller he absolutely ******* sucks because he does 2 things, he outsmarts himself and he calls a passive game. 

I have more faith in Ritchie Hall than I do Lapo and that's saying something cause Hall isn't the best coordinator out there either. 

[Fatty Liver]

4 hours ago, Eternal optimist said:

 

It's the devil you know vs. the devil you don't...they could make the switch and end up worse off in the long run. Besides, there are other facets of our O that haven't performed well.. Matthews only had his first TD reception in the 4th against the Argos, despite his injury-riddled season and inconsistent play, nobody seems to be calling for his head.

Matthews turn will come, he's in the line up.

[trueBlue83]

A few things.... I dont remember Buck Pierce dumping it off all the time.  And with Charlie & Sellers... that's a two headed monster that any OC with half a brain would have utilized no differently.

Drew Willy had an atrocious O-Line, so to compare him & Nichols is difficult.. Nichols played behind the best OLine in the league the last couple season and still looked mediocre more often than not.

And finally.....LaPo isn't the one making reads and throwing the ball.  He doesnt call nothing but 6 yard routes. Nichols just panics and gets rid of the ball early 70% of the time.  Call a play bad if you want, but I bet many routes dont even get fully run before that ball is gone.

Edited August 7, 2019 by trueBlue83

[66 Chevelle]

2 hours ago, Bubba Zanetti said:

There seems to be a chicken/egg scenario. Is it Lapo calling garbage games or is it Nichols not being able to execute? I am no fan of Lapo but I refuse to believe after all his years in the league he has become braindead and is calling a bunch of 5 yard outs on 2nd and 8. I think its Nichols being too risk adverse and wanting to get rid of the ball too early before the plays have developed/guys get open. I remember last year after one of his shitshows he threw the receivers under the bus saying no one was open all game. Like give me a break. Maybe if you would hold onto the ball for more than 2 mississippis someone could get open for **** sakes. He's like the anti-Mike Reilly. Reilly will wait until the last possible second to throw just as a 300 pounder buries him into the turf. Not saying that's a better outcome but somewhere in the middle would be a nice spot for Nichols as opposed to dumping it off cause he felt a slight breeze.

-it's both, the chicken and the egg... Nichols isn't all that good and Lapo doesn't trust him with more than he is currently giving him...  so Lapo thinks he's doing everyone a favor by giving Nichols what he thinks he can execute but it just makes everything more predictable and easy to stop... it's amazing that Lapo doesn't see it... I think Lapo is trying to keep Nichols from spiraling completely into the abysss… he doesn't do Streveler any favors either, or the team for that matter, by giving him what he does... it has become equally as predictable.... which you could make the case that this is the reason for some of the O line trouble as it doesn't take much pressure to get Nichols to bail...

[SpeedFlex27]

Sounds like we're screwed.

[ddanger]

12 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

Please go find a post of mine where I say this isnt Nichols fault....I'll wait. 

 It's never one thing. Multiple things go right or wrong on each and every play that will determine how that play works out. And it all starts and stops with the Oline.

exactly.....the line seems to have run-blocking down pretty good, but pass-block and blitz protection are suspect. Must remember we have 3 interior guys with extremely limited experience

[Arnold_Palmer]

2 hours ago, ddanger said:

exactly.....the line seems to have run-blocking down pretty good, but pass-block and blitz protection are suspect. Must remember we have 3 interior guys with extremely limited experience

Some people don’t understand run blocking and pass blocking is completely different and they can’t seem to realize one may be very good and one may be not as good. 

[17to85]

You know what it really is with the OL? It's the inexperience. For example I've seen Gray make some absolutely killer blocks, but I've also seen him miss some. Just don't have that level of consistency that we saw previously with a bunch of long term vets. 

[Brandon]

4 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

You know what it really is with the OL? It's the inexperience. For example I've seen Gray make some absolutely killer blocks, but I've also seen him miss some. Just don't have that level of consistency that we saw previously with a bunch of long term vets. 

So what's the excuse for last season when he had an experienced O-line that gave him time and he still was off on many of his throws?

Edited August 7, 2019 by Brandon

[Guest J5V]

6 minutes ago, Brandon said:

So what's the excuse for last season when he had an experienced O-line that gave him time and he still was off on many of his throws?

No team has an Oline full of perennial allstars. What they may have however, is a QB with good mobility and a playbook that will confuse a D with play-action and burn a D that tries to blitz too often. We seem to have none of the above. 

[Adrenaline_x]

10 minutes ago, Brandon said:

So what's the excuse for last season when he had an experienced O-line that gave him time and he still was off on many of his throws?

Diarrhea and the need to get off the field. 

[Rod Black]

9 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Sounds like we're screwed.

I know. Screwed with a 5-2 and maybe a 5-3 record. What are the odds of starting the season 5-3? Just terrible, I’d imagine. 

As if changing the qb now will make the record better.