Matt Nichols Discredited Too Much? Passing Yards Are Meaningless

[AKAChip]

12 minutes ago, Geebrr said:

That 2015 was not good.

Like extremely not good. There were a few really close losses to some good teams  where he really carried that team 

He wasn’t awful in 2015 but he certainly wasn’t good. He started 7 games where he didn’t get injured and didn’t return and he threw for 1700 yards, 10 TDs and 7 INTs in those games. He went 2-5 and while some games were close he was really only great in a 24-23 loss to Edmonton where he went for 320 with a 1:0 TD to INT ratio. That was the infamous Hajrullahu meltdown game. He notably went 189 0-1 with a 47% completion percentage in a 35-14 loss to the Johnathan Crompton lead Als team and threw 5 INTs in two games against Ottawa where they lost by a combined 10 points. We were all eager to see a QB that wasn’t Willy, but let’s not overstate his impact that season. 

Edited June 29, 2019 by AKAChip

[Geebrr]

Just now, USABomberfan said:

At this point I would say the Nichols supporters and the Nichols detractors are both dug in the trenches.  Minds will not be changed and ...

Unless he completely falls off the cliff with his play, there is no QB controversy here and nor should there be.

I don't always like the way O'Shea sticks with certain players or assistant coaches for a long time, but there is a reason why he and Lapo have the confidence in Nichols as they should.

The West Final sucked, but no team in the league this year has that kind of defense that we saw out of the Stamps the last couple years.

I'm actually on the fence with Nichols. I think if he is up and mostly meh then we should look hard at making Streveler the #1.

I am ok giving him a decent stretch to prove that though.

[Geebrr]

1 minute ago, AKAChip said:

He wasn’t awful in 2015 but he certainly wasn’t good. He started 7 games where he didn’t get injured and didn’t return and he threw for 1700 yard, 10 TDs and 7 INTs. He went 2-5 and while some games were close he was really only great in a 24-23 loss to Edmonton where he went for 320 with a 1:0 TD to INT ratio. That was the infamous Hajrullahu meltdown game. He notably went 189 0-1 with a 47% completion percentage in a 35-14 loss to the Johnathan Crompton lead Als team and threw 5 INTs in two games against Ottawa where they lost by a combined 10 points. We were all eager to see a QB that wasn’t Willy, but let’s not overstate his impact that season. 

But that team was so bad. Not to just let him off the hook, but he at least looked like a starter haha

[NorthernSkunk]

1 hour ago, USABomberfan said:

Well I could name about 6 other QBs who got their passing games taken away by that Stampeder defense, so that's a fabricated complaint anyway.  And as 17to85 mentioned, Lapolice got outschemed so it's his fault.

OWNED AGAIN!

How is it fabricated if it actually happened ?

[AKAChip]

1 minute ago, Geebrr said:

But that team was so bad. Not to just let him off the hook, but he at least looked like a starter haha

Absolutely agreed that the team was bad. But it’s often made out that he was the main bright spot in that dismal season when he was average at best, made to look better by following the shell of Drew Willy. 

[NorthernSkunk]

59 minutes ago, Tracker said:

I don't think that Nichols' performance against the Stamps in the playoffs is a valid assessment. He was dealing with an injury that limited him. However, he has enough Mulligans and its time for him to put up or shut up.

IF he was truly injured.... as a team player why did he not step aside and give the team the best chance to win.   Because really,  does anyone believe a Nichols with an injury is a better option than Big Chris at the time ?....... looks like the coach blew another chance

[Geebrr]

7 minutes ago, AKAChip said:

Absolutely agreed that the team was bad. But it’s often made out that he was the main bright spot in that dismal season when he was average at best, made to look better by following the shell of Drew Willy. 

Could be. He also took an 0-4 team in 2016 and brought it to the playoffs, including playing an outstanding playoff game.

[AKAChip]

Just now, Geebrr said:

Could be. He also took an 0-4 team in 2016 and brought it to the playoffs, including playing an outstanding playoff game.

Yup. And it was literally the one good playoff game he’s had in his career. 

[Tracker]

14 minutes ago, USABomberfan said:

At this point I would say the Nichols supporters and the Nichols detractors are both dug in the trenches.  Minds will not be changed and ...

Unless he completely falls off the cliff with his play, there is no QB controversy here and nor should there be.

I don't always like the way O'Shea sticks with certain players or assistant coaches for a long time, but there is a reason why he and Lapo have the confidence in Nichols as they should.

The West Final sucked, but no team in the league this year has that kind of defense that we saw out of the Stamps the last couple years.

I suggest we re-visit this discussion after the next game. The revamped O-line should have gelled more, the opposition will be more anemic and Nichols ought to be more familiar with his receivers, so no excuses for a piss-poor performance, even in a win.

[Geebrr]

Just now, AKAChip said:

Yup. And it was literally the one good playoff game he’s had in his career. 

Yeah that's fair. Some would look at his numbers in 2017 and say he played well in that playoff game, but I remember the game being all but done by the time he got it going. He was also coming back from injury in that game too.

[NorthernSkunk]

His last good playoff game was 2016 ?....... how long is his leash lol

[AKAChip]

4 minutes ago, Geebrr said:

Yeah that's fair. Some would look at his numbers in 2017 and say he played well in that playoff game, but I remember the game being all but done by the time he got it going. He was also coming back from injury in that game too.

Yeah, he was good in that game too. My mistake. You’re right that he only started to play well when the game was largely out of hand, but I’ll give him that one. 

[USABomberfan]

20 minutes ago, Tracker said:

I suggest we re-visit this discussion after the next game. The revamped O-line should have gelled more, the opposition will be more anemic and Nichols ought to be more familiar with his receivers, so no excuses for a piss-poor performance, even in a win.

I agree here, the Redblacks don't have a good defense and the offense should be able to score quite a few points in what might be a shootout.  But that word "piss-poor" is highly subjective around here and some people got some real extreme interpretations of it such as any passing yards below 300.

Anyway, given O'Shea I think we all know a loss will not start a QB change yet.  It would take a few of them.

Edited June 29, 2019 by USABomberfan

[17to85]

Nichols is a good short to medium passer in my books, iffy on the long balls. Not as quick as he was with his feet at one point, but the number of injuries the guy has had to his legs that happens. I think he's generally got a good attitude and leads the team but has on occasion lost it. He has shown the ability to regain that in the past though. 

No one is claiming that Matt Nichols is the pinnacle of a quarterback, all people are saying is that he does some good things out there and has done some very good things for this team so the people who come in here and treat him like he's TJ Rubley are out of line. 

No one is claiming that Matt Nichols played well against Edmonton, all we are doing is arguing this insane talk that he's a trash quarterback because reasons. I mean Mitchell and Reilly are the top quarterbacks in the CFL no questions asked. On paper Harris might appear better than Nichols but the results don't match up to the numbers for Harris in my opinion and I have Nichols and Harris as a teir below the top guys, you want to put Harris ahead of Nichols I'll go with that, but it's not some huge gap between the two of them based on the results. Masoli I don't believe is all that good. beating up the weak sisters of the league right now doesn't make him an elite quarterback. So yeah, barring paying 3/4 of a million per year for a qb we're doing OK at the position. 

[Mr Dee]

Yes,  I’d agree, Mitchell and Reilly are the top 2 QBs in the CFL. It’s not even worthy of debate.

But, 

they too, can only play to the level of their teammates and Coaching. Right now, after that strange game played in Calgary, we see that even though Reilly had an 85.7% completion average (elite) and 354 yards passing (that magic number) and 2 TD passing..B.C. lost the game. And there’s no guarantee that if Mitchell stayed in the game, that Calgary would have won.

On Thursday another reputed elite QB threw for 345 yards, but it took him 54 attempts. That’s Harris, and his book of stats. Is he  top 3 QB? Debatable. Certainly a good QB in most regards.

I’m told that the Bombers were fortunate because our middle-bonker-rated QB didn’t play well..but the team did, especially on defence. Team game for us in that one. Fortunate? Debatable.

As to Masoli, I’m still waiting to see. He’s got a pretty stacked team in Hamilton, so can he take the next step when he’s not playing Saskatchewan, Toronto or Montreal? We’ll see.

 The Bombers are in a good spot right now through team discipline, defence, effort and Coaching. Oh, and good QB play at the right time. I really don’t care if we’re not allowed to call Nichols anything but our starting QB. The Bombers are winning with him and really, that’s all that matters.

 

 

[trueBlue83]

8 hours ago, 17to85 said:

So yeah, barring paying 3/4 of a million per year for a qb we're doing OK at the position. 

But at $475K per season, are overpaying big time for the production we get out of him.

[Mr Dee]

7 minutes ago, trueBlue83 said:

But at $475K per season, are overpaying big time for the production we get out of him.

Are we?

[Atomic]

17 minutes ago, trueBlue83 said:

But at $475K per season, are overpaying big time for the production we get out of him.

4th highest QB salary for the QB who is roughly 5th best in the league. Hard to see it as a big time overpay. Every other established starter is making 500k+... not sure what Masoli gets now but he is FA after this season and you can bet it will be over 500 too.

[Rod Black]

Next thing, the detractors will start complaining about Nichols emulating Vince McMahon as a touchdown celebration. 

[WBBFanWest]

1 hour ago, trueBlue83 said:

But at $475K per season, are overpaying big time for the production we get out of him.

We've gotten 2 wins in two tries with him at the helm.  Neither Mitchell or Reilly can say that.  Are they better quarterbacks?  Maybe, but thankfully, football is a team game and this team is winning.  Funny how quickly we forget the days when we weren't, the days when we were trying to figure out how many wins we might get and whether that would be enough to get us into the playoffs.  Nichols isn't the best qb in the league, but maybe, he doesn't need to be. 

[Mark F]

Not that long ago the Bombers could move the ball but couldn't score touchdowns, it was all field goals. Those days are over.

top scoring Offence last season, two extremely dangerous, almost unstoppable players added this season;

(can't "scheme" to stop Whitehead, he's just too good)

However you rate Nichols, it's safe to say the Offence  will be very good, with him running it.

It's fun to follow, and I don't mind the back and forth, that's the point of the forum,

but it's irrelevant.

Edited June 30, 2019 by Mark F

[Bigblue204]

15 hours ago, NorthernSkunk said:

IF he was truly injured.... as a team player why did he not step aside and give the team the best chance to win.   Because really,  does anyone believe a Nichols with an injury is a better option than Big Chris at the time ?....... looks like the coach blew another chance

This isnt my thought....but if the coaches of the team thought Streveler was better at that time, he would have been starting...so A) the coaches of bombers dont know what's going on as well as we do, or b ) the coaches have close inside knowledge of who gives them the best chance and make the decision based on multiple aspects that most fans have 0 or to close to 0 knowledge of.....I know what I'm betting on. 

[17to85]

25 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

This isnt my thought....but if the coaches of the team thought Streveler was better at that time, he would have been starting...so A) the coaches of bombers dont know what's going on as well as we do, or b ) the coaches have close inside knowledge of who gives them the best chance and make the decision based on multiple aspects that most fans have 0 or to close to 0 knowledge of.....I know what I'm betting on. 

******* idiot coaches...

[Doublezero]

I don't know what the coaches are thinking but a lot of fans think Nichols is boring to watch - especially with the offensive weapons he's got. What's the point in having Chris Matthews if he hardly sees the ball?  Nichols decides very quickly to throw the ball out of bounds. He does that  alot. He slides or goes down as soon as a defender gets a pinky on him, instead of fighting for yards. We are blessed to have a shut-down Defence. But if Bombers management is thinking that at least Nichols can manage things so we might not lose - then I think people are going to stay home instead of buying tickets to see the team play. They might sell more tickets by giving Streveler the reigns. He's exciting to watch, even if there are some growing pains.  Fans want to see him play.

[Jpan85]

Winning is fun