GDT-Stumps @ Bombers

[66 Chevelle]

5 minutes ago, NorthernSkunk said:

After I read it I thought they are totally reading the social media stuff lol....

you know they are, why else would it be brought up? lol...

[17to85]

1 hour ago, NorthernSkunk said:

Which makes it not a touchdown pass...... but in all seriousness do you really count those as a stat for Matty ?

Well it's a counter point to all the people bitching about the throws that Nichols did miss (and really he only had 4 incompletions so...) It's just one example of a case where the quarterback gets the incomplete pass even though he did everything he possibly could have, it was up to the guy on the other end of the pass to finish the play. 

People don't look at the entire picture though, they just keep banging on the "nichols sucks" drum. 

[66 Chevelle]

4 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Well it's a counter point to all the people bitching about the throws that Nichols did miss (and really he only had 4 incompletions so...) It's just one example of a case where the quarterback gets the incomplete pass even though he did everything he possibly could have, it was up to the guy on the other end of the pass to finish the play. 

People don't look at the entire picture though, they just keep banging on the "nichols sucks" drum. 

ahhhh, I get it... see I do just the opposite though, I don't count those stupidly bad balls he throw against him, like that one in game 1 where he underthrew Adams so bad in or at the goal line that it should have been an interception if not for Adams making a great over the back play to knock it out of the defender's hands... see, exactly the same but different...

[17to85]

here’s the Bombers workhorse tailback explaining why he was so busy:

“We knew that was going to be there. (Calgary) is a team that drops out and their linebackers and DBs sit at the sticks (first-down marker). We talked about it all week: getting that ball and just getting north-south and trying to split tackles and break tackles to get first downs. When you’re in second and five those dump-down passes are easy targets, they’re contested catches and you’ve just got to get north-south with those as quickly as possible.”

 

Perhaps some of you need to read this and see if you still want to attribute it to the quarterback and not the game plan. Or does Andrew Harris not know what he's talking about?

[17to85]

4 minutes ago, 66 Chevelle said:

ahhhh, I get it... see I do just the opposite though, I don't count those stupidly bad balls he throw against him, like that one in game 1 where he underthrew Adams so bad in or at the goal line that it should have been an interception if not for Adams making a great over the back play to knock it out of the defender's hands... see, exactly the same but different...

yeah every quarterback makes poor throws, which is why I am trying to tell you people to look at the big picture. Take the entire thing into consideration and make a judgement. 

Nichols completed all but 4 balls against the stamps and the offense handily won the time of possession battle... yet people are saying the offense, and Nichols in particular was poor. I just don't see it as being poor. Average? Sure. Could be better? Probably, but that wasn't all Nichols problems. 

[Blueandgold]

42 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

yeah every quarterback makes poor throws, which is why I am trying to tell you people to look at the big picture. Take the entire thing into consideration and make a judgement. 

Nichols completed all but 4 balls against the stamps and the offense handily won the time of possession battle... yet people are saying the offense, and Nichols in particular was poor. I just don't see it as being poor. Average? Sure. Could be better? Probably, but that wasn't all Nichols problems. 

Is completing two passes for seven yards and then punting the ball impressive? 

I don’t care how many passes the check down king completes. It’s a very poor stat to use when our QB constantly throws second down passes well short of the marker. 

[Brandon]

4 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Nichols threw a touchdown pass, receiver just didn't get it under control before stepping out of bounds.

People always gotta ***** about things, the offense really wasn't as bad as they are making it sound against the Stamps, they just didn't get a ton of opportunities in the first half on account of special teams and a couple lengthy drives against courtesy of the defense.

So what's the excuse for the bad passing attack in the 2nd half when they had plenty of opportunities?   What about late in the game when Nichols could shine and kill the clock and couldn't do squat?  

[Brandon]

2 hours ago, 17to85 said:

here’s the Bombers workhorse tailback explaining why he was so busy:

“We knew that was going to be there. (Calgary) is a team that drops out and their linebackers and DBs sit at the sticks (first-down marker). We talked about it all week: getting that ball and just getting north-south and trying to split tackles and break tackles to get first downs. When you’re in second and five those dump-down passes are easy targets, they’re contested catches and you’ve just got to get north-south with those as quickly as possible.”

 

Perhaps some of you need to read this and see if you still want to attribute it to the quarterback and not the game plan. Or does Andrew Harris not know what he's talking about?

What's he going to say?  Our QB sucks and resorts to passing to myself because he is to afraid to target his receivers?  

 

[Booch]

What Harris said totally makes sense and is legit..coming from a background of producing game plans and involved in film break down I see the point in it.

I guarantee that Nichols was to look for the one primary read and if wasnt there hit the check down..and if u go back and rewatch you will see a lot of the other reciever routes were set up to aid in this and be blockers..it was planned as such..and executed as planned.

Cgy does sit generally in a 10-12 yard zone set up to jump and poach routes..as shown by their league leading 14 picks..so to beat them..or control them with t.o.p you dont play into it

If that first read wasnt immediately available then throwing into that..with more chance of pass break ups..short drives or turn overs woulda been dumber than dumb.

And agreeing with Harris also that t.o.p is just as important as points..because it's basically an extension  of your defense..as the other team has no chance to score..there's nothing more frustrating for an offence to sit on sidelines and watch another team eat up 5..6 min drives and u can do nothing about it..and when u get your chance..come in out of sync and rythm and end up back on sidelines in a minute or less a lot of the time...there is a method to the Bombers madness..may not be pretty..fancy or exciting..but you cant argue with its success so far..

[Mr Dee]

I think we get all that, but Streveler can throw those check downs too. It’s got to be a little disconcerting when the opposing defence sees Streveler come in because it opens up a new package for them to defend. 

Keep them guessing...

[JuranBoldenRules]

5 hours ago, Booch said:

What Harris said totally makes sense and is legit..coming from a background of producing game plans and involved in film break down I see the point in it.

I guarantee that Nichols was to look for the one primary read and if wasnt there hit the check down..and if u go back and rewatch you will see a lot of the other reciever routes were set up to aid in this and be blockers..it was planned as such..and executed as planned.

Cgy does sit generally in a 10-12 yard zone set up to jump and poach routes..as shown by their league leading 14 picks..so to beat them..or control them with t.o.p you dont play into it

If that first read wasnt immediately available then throwing into that..with more chance of pass break ups..short drives or turn overs woulda been dumber than dumb.

And agreeing with Harris also that t.o.p is just as important as points..because it's basically an extension  of your defense..as the other team has no chance to score..there's nothing more frustrating for an offence to sit on sidelines and watch another team eat up 5..6 min drives and u can do nothing about it..and when u get your chance..come in out of sync and rythm and end up back on sidelines in a minute or less a lot of the time...there is a method to the Bombers madness..may not be pretty..fancy or exciting..but you cant argue with its success so far..

There’s an abundance of ways to counter that type of zone shell (seems like they play cover 1-2 base with robber, everyone is looking to jump routes) though to open up routes for the passing game, flooding, combo routes are the most obvious remedy, also simply running verticals and forcing guys to choose whether to watch the ball or haul ass.  I’d like to see the Bombers get teams concerned about vertical routes and crossers to the speed guys then smack teams right in the face with 15 yard back shoulder plays to the big guys like Wolitasky and Matthews.  Can’t believe they haven’t figured out how to turn these guys loose.

Harris is a great counter too.

[Mark F]

Lucky 28 catches for 330   Yac 214.

28 3 yard passes.

Maybe not the best use of Lucky.

[WBBFanWest]

14 hours ago, Tracker said:

Well, according to some, if the Bombers win a game, there is no room for improvement needed.

Actually what a lot of us seem to be saying is that we should celebrate the win, not piss and moan about stats.  There will always be room for improvement, but a win is a win and ultimately, everything else is secondary to that.

[Booch]

48 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

There’s an abundance of ways to counter that type of zone shell (seems like they play cover 1-2 base with robber, everyone is looking to jump routes) though to open up routes for the passing game, flooding, combo routes are the most obvious remedy, also simply running verticals and forcing guys to choose whether to watch the ball or haul ass.  I’d like to see the Bombers get teams concerned about vertical routes and crossers to the speed guys then smack teams right in the face with 15 yard back shoulder plays to the big guys like Wolitasky and Matthews.  Can’t believe they haven’t figured out how to turn these guys loose.

Harris is a great counter too.

I'VE been advocating for that for a couple years now...why I don't know...I honestly think that it's because Lapo has no kahonies and doesn't want any type of turn over...sure it's working kinda...but as we saw in WF last year if you can shut that down..then what.

Why we don't pull guys away with any vertical push to allow for those crossing patterns to be generally a one on one match-up...a lot of times with a guy in trail position is just baffling...we have all the tools to run this type of system, yet avoid it like the plague. This would also open up more lanes and areas for Harris to work without 5-6 guys in the box or inside the sticks.

To have a guy like Lucky, or Demski isolated with what would likely be a linebacker across the middle, while you use your big shot guy like Matthews..and now Lawler taking defenders (and the safety) away from the LOS with Woli running intermediate crossers and drags would be hard to stop with the threat of Harris in the backfield...pick your pinion basically...cheat on the guys like Lucky and Demski and you will have one of Matthews or Lawler freed up deep...defend against that with deep zone and safety over the top..HarriS, Lucky and Demski eat you up.

Now factor in sets with Strev running the full package and that extra option/that he offers...good luck defending that....SAD part and fact of the matter is Nichols can make all the throws and run an offence like this, but isn't allowed to..and thats on the OC

I remember when Nichols took over for Willy..we were dinking and dunking and and had no vertical threat at all...as soon as Matt stepped in we were immediately throwing deeper passes...pushing the ball...it was like night and day...so why things slowly changed is odd

 

[17to85]

6 minutes ago, Booch said:

remember when Nichols took over for Willy..we were dinking and dunking and and had no vertical threat at all...as soon as Matt stepped in we were immediately throwing deeper passes...pushing the ball...it was like night and day...so why things slowly changed is odd

 

I think the reason they have changed is simple: the defense improved greatly and wasn't a liability so Lapo got conservative as he does. It's really a lot like 2011. Play conservative offense and let the D win the game. I hate it and it's why I always bang the fire lapo drum.

[Booch]

3 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

I think the reason they have changed is simple: the defense improved greatly and wasn't a liability so Lapo got conservative as he does. It's really a lot like 2011. Play conservative offense and let the D win the game. I hate it and it's why I always bang the fire lapo drum.

That's how i see it too....and over the last 2 years has morphed into this again..I can see using the ball control offence...low risk..take shots when they are there...but c'mon man take the shots...from my seat in stadium you can clearly see they are there...but sooner or later guys are gonna loaf and not sell the deep routes...and who can blame them...

you have to use "all" the weapons just to keep defense's honest, and the last couple games we havn't even really done that...and that's a recipe for failure.

As a defensive guy, I would be using a linebacker to shadow/spy Harris and lurk in the weeds...watch Nichols first read and then bee-line to Harris...

[M.Silverback]

28 minutes ago, Booch said:

As a defensive guy, I would be using a linebacker to shadow/spy Harris and lurk in the weeds...watch Nichols first read and then bee-line to Harris...

Exactly. Hey, we're 6 - 2, so something is working. But, I really don't see the current Bomber offense as a tough one to scheme against as a DC. 

[Booch]

Looking at some numbers...you can see the Lapo trend creeping in...when Nichols took over against Edm in 2015 he averaged 255 yards a game, on a not very good team where the defense was on the field a lot...taking time away from offence and that was a part year.

2016 he averaged 283 yards a game with 8 games at just under 300 yards  or over(287/289/299/301/304/330/341/390)

2017 he averaged 283 yards a game with 8 games at just under 300 yards or over (282/319/319/331/358/364/371/390)

2018..well we all know what went on there..injured..coming back injured..good defense and averaged 216 yards a game and 2 games at just under 300 yards or over (291/358)

2019 is averaging 219 yards a game..darn good defense...really deep well rounded team with 1 game at just under 300 yards or over (295)

Now do you see a trend here folks?..he is being put in a situation to not take an unnecessary chances..do enough to win and not turn the ball over..and 9 times out of 10 win the T.O.P battle...this is by design...not by lack of skill or talent.....a ball control offence...using a work horse in Harris (a bit too much for my liking mind you) and playing smart..most wins next to CGY over past 3 years seems to show it's a working formula...but not one of popular opinion 

All the while though since 2017 leading league in offensive points and having pretty much a 3:1 TD to INT ratio mind you..Impressive none the less....another thing of note you can almost see/sense Nichols wanting to..or about to loose his **** to the media with the constant questions/nagging about stats..or lack thereof despite the teams record...and who would blame him

[do or die]

What can drive one nuts....is watching the Bomber O in the first half of games (overall pretty good), then watching them in the 2nd (overall pretty bad)

[Booch]

6 minutes ago, do or die said:

What can drive one nuts....is watching the Bomber O in the first half of games (overall pretty good), then watching them in the 2nd (overall pretty bad)

And the even more frustrating part it appears this is by design

[rebusrankin]

Grant with a Player of the Week nod.

[Brandon]

So do they go with Buck next season as OC?  Assuming that LaPo gets offered the HC job in BC?  

Or do they go elsewhere in fear of the passive influence of LaPo that may have rubbed off onto Buck? 

[Booch]

Claybrooks isn't going anywhere next year...Only place I can see a new guy coming in is maybe T.O...If Khari keeps things in the right direction there I can't see them getting rid of him..why take a step forward then 2 backwards.

I think the only way we are without Lapo next year is if Management gets rid of him in off-season...or he gets a too good to turn down NCAA opportunity...neither of which I can see happening

[Sard]

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

So do they go with Buck next season as OC?  Assuming that LaPo gets offered the HC job in BC?  

Or do they go elsewhere in fear of the passive influence of LaPo that may have rubbed off onto Buck? 

Would love to see Buck as an OC with the Bombers at some point.  I remember a couple years back, I think he was still playing at the time.  The games when he was on the sidelines, the O didn't move the ball much, but when he was up in the box they lit it up.  Not sure if he was calling plays or what he was doing up there, but whatever it was, it seemed to work.

[Tracker]

4 hours ago, Booch said:

Looking at some numbers...you can see the Lapo trend creeping in...when Nichols took over against Edm in 2015 he averaged 255 yards a game, on a not very good team where the defense was on the field a lot...taking time away from offence and that was a part year.

2016 he averaged 283 yards a game with 8 games at just under 300 yards  or over(287/289/299/301/304/330/341/390)

2017 he averaged 283 yards a game with 8 games at just under 300 yards or over (282/319/319/331/358/364/371/390)

2018..well we all know what went on there..injured..coming back injured..good defense and averaged 216 yards a game and 2 games at just under 300 yards or over (291/358)

2019 is averaging 219 yards a game..darn good defense...really deep well rounded team with 1 game at just under 300 yards or over (295)

Now do you see a trend here folks?..he is being put in a situation to not take an unnecessary chances..do enough to win and not turn the ball over..and 9 times out of 10 win the T.O.P battle...this is by design...not by lack of skill or talent.....a ball control offence...using a work horse in Harris (a bit too much for my liking mind you) and playing smart..most wins next to CGY over past 3 years seems to show it's a working formula...but not one of popular opinion 

All the while though since 2017 leading league in offensive points and having pretty much a 3:1 TD to INT ratio mind you..Impressive none the less....another thing of note you can almost see/sense Nichols wanting to..or about to loose his **** to the media with the constant questions/nagging about stats..or lack thereof despite the teams record...and who would blame him

You not assuming that the coaches have been tailoring their offensive game plans to make the most of Nichols' abilities.