It's time to hand the ball to Streveler.

[AKAChip]

On the topic of the time when Nichols replaced Drew Willy, I was inspired to look back to 2016 to the period immediately after the QB change. The Bombers started 1-4 with Drew Willy and then went on a seven game winning streak when Nichols came in but that hardly tells the entire story. Can't help but wonder how different things would be today at the QB position had that seven game streak, which undoubtedly (and rightfully so) entrenched Nichols as the long term starter for this team gone a bit differently.

For one, Willy's numbers were surprisingly not that bad during the 1-4 start. Yes, I remember him being shellshocked and checking down a lot but doesn't that all sound familiar? It didn't help that of those four losses, two were against Calgary and one was against Edmonton. He still only turned the ball over four times in five games and was legitimately great in the win over Hamilton and the loss to Calgary. I agree that a change needed to be made and running Willy out of town was clearly not a mistake, but I guess the point of this all is that Nichols' play right now isn't really any worse than end stage Willy. It's the circumstances surrounding the rest of the team that are vastly different.

Nichols comes in that season and the Bombers immediately go on a seven game winning streak. However, the best team BY FAR they beat in that stretch was an Eskimos team that finished 10-8. The other wins were two against the one-win Riders, one against the 7-11 Als and two against the 5-13 Argos (who had Logan Kilgore and Dan Lefevour as their starting QB in those two games). Yes, none of those are automatic wins but talk about favourable circumstances! The even crazier thing is, there was a three game stretch where the Bomber defence forced a combined 16(!) turnovers. It's nearly impossible to lose when you force five turnovers in a game, regardless of what your offence does. Nichols' average stats in that seven game streak? About 260 yards passing and one touchdown per game. Granted he didn't have to do much and wasn't turning the ball over, but his numbers were actually worse than Willy's against significantly weaker competition. And yes, many people will say the numbers don't matter as long as the team is winning and they weren't wining with Willy and they were with Nichols. I just find the circumstances around the QB change and the corresponding records very interesting and can't help but figure that going into that extremely easy stretch of the 2016 season had Willy not been benched at that exact moment, the team probably has a similar record and then where would things be at today? Likely neither Willy or Nichols are the QB for this team. 

Edited August 11, 2019 by AKAChip

[17to85]

17 minutes ago, AKAChip said:

For one, Willy's numbers were surprisingly not that bad during the 1-4 start. Yes, I remember him being shellshocked and checking down a lot but doesn't that all sound familiar? It didn't help that of those four losses, two were against Calgary and one was against Edmonton. He still only turned the ball over four times in five games and was legitimately great in the win over Hamilton and the loss to Calgary. I agree that a change needed to be made and running Willy out of town was clearly not a mistake, but I guess the point of this all is that Nichols' play right now isn't really any worse than end stage Willy. It's the circumstances surrounding the rest of the team that are vastly different.

So they why are some of you so dead set on running Nichols out of town when it's clearly a Lapo thing that has turned 2 qbs into the check down guy? 

[AKAChip]

3 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

So they why are some of you so dead set on running Nichols out of town when it's clearly a Lapo thing that has turned 2 qbs into the check down guy? 

I mean, the fact that Willy hasn’t stuck anywhere since leaving Winnipeg would indicate it wasn’t just a Lapo thing. I know you’ll say something along the lines of “Well Lapo clearly broke him beyond repair” and again, I can’t stress enough that I think Lapo is a huge liability right now. It just seems like you’re not willing to even consider that maybe Nichols has something to do with the issues the team has moving the ball in close games. I’m not even necessarily making a grand statement with this post, I’m just thinking about how different things would be had Nichols not been inserted into the lineup in some of the most favourable conditions imaginable. 

[SpeedFlex27]

7 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

So they why are some of you so dead set on running Nichols out of town when it's clearly a Lapo thing that has turned 2 qbs into the check down guy? 

LaPo not only wrecks qbs he also wrecks receivers. He turns thousand yard receivers into the scrap heap. Like Dressler, Bowman & now Matthews.

[JCon]

Willy was wrecked by not having an O-line. When he came back, he was a scared and never settled again. 

In the current Lapo offence, with the current O-line, with handoffs and checkdowns, I think even Willy could manage. 

[AKAChip]

3 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

LaPo not only wrecks qbs he also wrecks receivers. He turns thousand yard receivers into the scrap heap. Like Dressler, Bowman & now Matthews.

Dressler was pretty good for us and when he wasn’t, it was because he was old and broken. Bowman was done before he set foot on the field for the Bombers last year. Matthews is an interesting one but he hardly set the world on fire in Calgary last year. 

[JCon]

2 minutes ago, AKAChip said:

Dressler was pretty good for us and when he wasn’t, it was because he was old and broken. Bowman was done before he set foot on the field for the Bombers last year. Matthews is an interesting one but he hardly set the world on fire in Calgary last year. 

Bowman didn't even try. I was so jacked when we signed him but he wouldn't even run the routes. He was done. 

[Mr Dee]

Dele 

Edited August 11, 2019 by Mr Dee

[Mark H.]

11 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

LaPo not only wrecks qbs he also wrecks receivers. He turns thousand yard receivers into the scrap heap. Like Dressler, Bowman & now Matthews.

You can’t possibly be serious? Bowman? 

[SpeedFlex27]

1 minute ago, AKAChip said:

Dressler was pretty good for us and when he wasn’t, it was because he was old and broken. Bowman was done before he set foot on the field for the Bombers last year. Matthews is an interesting one but he hardly set the world on fire in Calgary last year. 

He doesn't use his receivers the right way. How many times was Dressler squashed & injured on that fly sweep that Lucky Whitehead now runs. They signed Bowman but hardly threw to the guy until he became a totally ridiculous decoy. Matthews a big bodied receiver who makes contested catches who they never throw to downfield.  Of the 3, Dressler had the most success if you want to call it that. I just see Matthews taking up cap space being totally wasted in our offense. Even Wolitarsky, the guy could be a thousand yard receiver & he gets the ball 2 or 3 throws a game.  He's being wasted as well. That's LaPo's offense. The ball never gets spread around. But hey, let's check down & throw a hundred balls to Andrew Harris.

[SpeedFlex27]

8 minutes ago, JCon said:

Bowman didn't even try. I was so jacked when we signed him but he wouldn't even run the routes. He was done. 

They never threw to him. Maybe he was done but I remember that offense & he was ignored.  Matthews is just a waste.

[JCon]

2 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

They never threw to him. Maybe he was done but I remember that offense & he was ignored.  Matthews is just a waste.

He wasn't even running the routes. If you watched him, he jogged most of the time and was way out of position. Streveler would look for him and he wasn't where he needed to be. 

[AKAChip]

2 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

He doesn't use his receivers the right way. How many times was Dressler squashed & injured on that fly sweep that Lucky Whitehead now runs. They signed Bowman but hardly threw to the guy until he became a totally ridiculous decoy. Matthews a big bodied receiver who makes contested catches who they never throw to downfield.  Of the 3, Dressler had the most success if you want to call it that. I just see Matthews taking up cap space being totally wasted in our offense. Even Wolitarsky, the guy could be a thousand yard receiver & he gets the ball 2 or 3 throws a game.  He's being wasted as well. That's LaPo's offense. The ball never gets spread around. But hey, let's check down & throw a hundred balls to Andrew Harris.

Throwing to Bowman would have been a disaster because he wasn’t capable of getting open. I don’t doubt that Lapo struggles to utilize his receivers properly. Largely because he rarely has them running slants or other intermediate routes to help out his QB. But saying he didn’t utilize guys that were clearly done is unfair. And again,  he’s very clearly not calling 15 dump offs to Harris per game. 

[AKAChip]

2 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

They never threw to him. Maybe he was done but I remember that offense & he was ignored.  Matthews is just a waste.

I also think it’s  pretty clear at this point that Matthews is largely just a guy. He’s a fine enough complimentary piece but expectations of him being our long awaited number one receiver were WAY too high. 

[SpeedFlex27]

Just now, JCon said:

He wasn't even running the routes. If you watched him, he jogged most of the time and was way out of position. Streveler would look for him and he wasn't where he needed to be. 

Well, I never saw him play as I live in Calgary & we don't see the little things that you would if I was at a game. Like route running. But my point is... guys are being wasted in this offense. The ball does not get spread around like you see with other teams.

[SpeedFlex27]

10 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

You can’t possibly be serious? Bowman? 

Okay maybe Bowman was a stretch.

[AKAChip]

1 minute ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Well, I never saw him play as I live in Calgary & we don't see the little things that you would if I was at a game. Like route running. But my point is... guys are being wasted in this offense. The ball does not get spread around like you see with other teams.

And how much is that the QB zeroing in on one guy before dumping it off? Lots of factors at play. 

[JCon]

2 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Well, I never saw him play as I live in Calgary & we don't see the little things that you would if I was at a game. Like route running. But my point is... guys are being wasted in this offense. The ball does not get spread around like you see with other teams.

I agree, we're are not utilizing the talent we have effectively. 

But Bowman was done, sadly. 

 

I'm also torn about Matthews. What I want is a large, out jump everyone, out fight everyone WR but I'm not seeing that. There's been a few times where he just hasn't come down with the ball. He hasn't played much, truthfully, so I hope that changes. 

[SpeedFlex27]

1 minute ago, JCon said:

I agree, we're are not utilizing the talent we have effectively. 

But Bowman was done, sadly. 

 

I'm also torn about Matthews. What I want is a large, out jump everyone, out fight everyone WR but I'm not seeing that. There's been a few times where he just hasn't come down with the ball. He hasn't played much, truthfully, so I hope that changes. 

Until we throw the ball downfield deep we won't see it.

[SpeedFlex27]

I never saw Bowman play live so I could never key on him by watching.  So, I guess my observation about Bowman was wrong.

[Rod Black]

24 minutes ago, JCon said:

I agree, we're are not utilizing the talent we have effectively. 

But Bowman was done, sadly. 

 

I'm also torn about Matthews. What I want is a large, out jump everyone, out fight everyone WR but I'm not seeing that. There's been a few times where he just hasn't come down with the ball. He hasn't played much, truthfully, so I hope that changes. 

Yer right in that Matthews hasn’t played a lot. 4 games and has one touchdown. He has been stabbed and can’t tell what that has done to him. Mind you, a player  that should be stabbed, BC’s DebagCarter, has no touchdowns in 8 games. 

I too hope CM’s play can have a larger impact. 

Edited August 11, 2019 by Rod Black

[John B]

IMO, this current lack of diversity in the Bomber offence will come back to haunt them when Harris gets injured, as someone who  handles the ball so much inevitably will.

[bb1]

This topic is moot because Mike O'shea will not sit Nichols for Streveler, not when we are 6 and 2. If we lost 4 in a row..maybe.  If we are winning Nichols starts no matter how poorly he plays. I understand O'shea thinking on this,i just wish we could get Streveler in more....

Edited August 11, 2019 by bb1

[Mr Dee]

10 hours ago, John B said:

IMO, this current lack of diversity in the Bomber offence will come back to haunt them when Harris gets injured, as someone who  handles the ball so much inevitably will.

Edited August 11, 2019 by Mr Dee

[Doublezero]

1 hour ago, JCon said:

Willy was wrecked by not having an O-line. When he came back, he was a scared and never settled again. 

In the current Lapo offence, with the current O-line, with handoffs and checkdowns, I think even Willy could manage. 

Willy never was very good. Yes, he got smacked around and got happy feet. But before that, the wins he got credit for most often were due to ST scores and Defensive plays, not because of stellar QB play. Not very different from the situation with Nichols now - he gets credit for wins when really he's not the kind of QB you can count on to generate a come-from-behind win.  He's an average journeyman and his contribution to Bombers wins is exaggerated. OTOH, when he messes up, as he did several times last year and at least once this year, he can actually be the direct cause of a loss (although he won't admit it). More than anything in the past decade or so it is weakness at the QB position that has held this team back from better things. One wonders if this regime actually has trouble assessing and managing the QB position. Lapo might be part of it - but the problems are basically at QB and they pre-date Lapos arrival. Walters has been GM since 2013 and MOS head coach since 2014.