World Politics

[Bigblue204]

5 minutes ago, Tracker said:

A note of caution here. As much as many would like to spit vitriol at the Russians, and even though they were responsible for the starvation deaths of 6-8 million Ukrainians, and the killing of many more, Ukrainians have their skeletons in their closets as well. During WW2, a right-wing faction of partisans took advantage of the chaos to undertake ethic cleansing of ethnic Poles living in the area close to the Polish border and forced out or killed some 50-60,000 of them. This was an area claimed by both Ukraine and Poland, but that does not minimize the horror of the killings. 

They also have their share of right wing nuts. In 2019 they put up a monument to WW2 era Ukrainian fascists' on the spot where 1200 Jews were executed in 1943, the head of the Ukrainian Jewish committee called it a monument to killers on top of the graves of their victims. The Canadian ambassador to Ukraine was present for the ceremony as well.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-officials-honor-nazi-collaborators-in-ukraine-angering-jewish-groups

[Bigblue204]

https://readthemaple.com/the-historical-roots-of-the-ukraine-conflict/ 

Here's a really good article that digs into a bit of the history in the region and shows that it's far more complicated than what's being described in the media (for the most part).

I thought the final sentenced summed it up nicely. "Our solidarity must be against this war and against the ruling classes who have stoked it for so long."

Edited March 2, 2022 by Bigblue204

[johnzo]

3 hours ago, WildPath said:

I have a friend from Romania with a similar story. He's told me about how savagely the Russian's treated them in WW2 compared to the Nazis.

I have read that the Nazis were greeted as liberators by Ukranians in 1941, and given how Stalin brutalized them, you can't really blame them.

Alas, the warm welcome did not make the Nazis any less shitty -- the Ukranians were subhuman Slavs after all -- and Hitler's goons gleefully got down to the task of converting Ukraine into lebensraum and liquidating the population.

[Mark F]

Man, those Ukrainians are courageous.

just amazing.

Note: don't piss off Germany:

 

 

"Russian billionaire Alisher Usmanov was sanctioned by the European Union on Monday. Two days later, Forbes has learned from three sources in the yacht industry that one of his prized possessions—the 512-foot yacht Dilbar, valued at nearly $600 million—has been seized by German authorities in the northern city of Hamburg."

 

😂🤣😂

Edited March 2, 2022 by Mark F

[Tracker]

20 minutes ago, johnzo said:

I have read that the Nazis were greeted as liberators by Ukrainians in 1941, and given how Stalin brutalized them, you can't really blame them.

Alas, the warm welcome did not make the Nazis any less shitty -- the Ukrainians were subhuman Slavs after all -- and Hitler's goons gleefully got down to the task of converting Ukraine into lebensraum and liquidating the population.

There was an agreement between Ukrainians resistance and the Nazis. During the first world war, the Germans offered Ukrainians separation from the Russian empire in exchange for intel and logistic support against the Tsarist Russian government, and for a few years, Ukraine was an independent country. Then Stalin came along and overran Ukraine again. The Ukrainians thought they had the same deal with the Nazis but as soon as the Russians were driven out of Ukraine, the Nazis turned on their Ukrainian allies and killed as many of them as they could find. When Russia re-took Ukraine, they took reprisals against anyone they thought might have aided the Germans. And yes, the Nazis saw Ukraine as a potential breadbasket for their empire. The plan was to use the "subhuman" Slavs as slave labour, working them to death and then occupying the then-vacant lands.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

2 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

The more time I take to look into this, the more complicated it gets. I would no longer call one side or the other completely innocent....however as with all wars it will all come at the cost of working class peoples lives and homes.

Wait... wut?

 

How so? Please elaborate. 

[Tracker]

 

 

                                          

[Mark H.]

2 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

The more time I take to look into this, the more complicated it gets. I would no longer call one side or the other completely innocent....however as with all wars it will all come at the cost of working class peoples lives and homes.

The Holocaust and WWII also get pretty complicated, the more you look into them

The Allies were not innocent, and I would also include the Canadian Government in that statement

But - none of that changed the fact that Hitler needed to be shut down 

[JCon]

Ukraine is a democratic country. They elected their government and have been invaded several times in the past decade by the aggressors, the Russians. 

Russia thinks Ukraine belongs to them. 

Get f***ed if you're going to try to both sides this. 

[Mark H.]

Excuse me if this was already posted elsewhere

 

[Noeller]

2 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

Excuse me if this was already posted elsewhere

 

I don't mind saying I cried when people exploded with applause following the Ukrainian anthem....

[Bigblue204]

23 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Wait... wut?

 

How so? Please elaborate. 

Without ranting too long, it's basically the two world powers (russia vs the west) fighting for strategic land to help bolster their economic power...this includes the west propping up far right wing militias to help fight russia, and russia using THAT to say all of Ukraine is infiltrated by nazis and thus justifying their invasion, in their mind. Which coincidentally also fits with their own plans for overthrowing the West as THE world power. This isn't russia vs ukraine. It's Powerful people in russia vs powerful people in the west...and of course the people of Ukraine are the ones paying the price. Rich people start wars. Poor people end them.

[bustamente]

Body bags for the Russian troops are mounting and parents are going to be receiving a body that was used as a pawn and didn't need to die, as for Putin targeting civilians especially children is about as low as it gets but that's what monsters do.

1 hour ago, Mark F said:

Man, those Ukrainians are courageous.

just amazing.

Note: don't piss off Germany:

 

 

"Russian billionaire Alisher Usmanov was sanctioned by the European Union on Monday. Two days later, Forbes has learned from three sources in the yacht industry that one of his prized possessions—the 512-foot yacht Dilbar, valued at nearly $600 million—has been seized by German authorities in the northern city of Hamburg."

 

😂🤣😂

Everyone needs a heli pad

[Fatty Liver]

5 hours ago, blue_gold_84 said:

https://www.canada.ca/en/global-affairs/news/2022/03/backgrounder-canada-imposes-additional-economic-measures-on-russia-in-wake-of-its-military-attack-against-ukraine.html

Now maybe it's time to send any and all Russian diplomats here in Canada packing, too.

Interesting that one of the richest Russian oligarchs not being sanctioned...

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/tops...id=hplocalnews

"But one of the most recognizable Russian elites to have been excluded from Canada’s sanction list is billionaire Roman Abramovich, best known outside his home country as the owner of Chelsea FC, one of the world’s most popular soccer teams.

Abramovich, who had come under intense political scrutiny in the U.K., said on March 2 that he will sell Chelsea and donate the proceeds to Ukraine, the Financial Times reported . The team is only his most visible asset in the West. Among other things, Abramovich is the largest shareholder in Evraz PLC, a steel manufacturing and mining business that has facilities in Regina, Calgary and Edmonton.

Evraz has provided the majority of the pipe to the Trans Mountain expansion (TMX) project, which will expand the movement of oil and refined products from the Edmonton area to a terminal on the Pacific Coast for export. Evraz’s agreement with original pipeline owner Kinder Morgan provided 250,000 metric tons of pipe to the project."

"Abramovich announced Wednesday he is selling the Chelsea soccer club. Abramovich said the sale will "not be fast-tracked but will follow due process," and that the net proceeds will go to victims in Ukraine."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/chelsea...ovich-ukraine/

Edited March 3, 2022 by Fatty Liver

[bustamente]

So caring and thoughtful, as she attempts to rewrite history being a Trump stooge

 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

2 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

Without ranting too long, it's basically the two world powers (russia vs the west) fighting for strategic land to help bolster their economic power...this includes the west propping up far right wing militias to help fight russia, and russia using THAT to say all of Ukraine is infiltrated by nazis and thus justifying their invasion, in their mind. Which coincidentally also fits with their own plans for overthrowing the West as THE world power. This isn't russia vs ukraine. It's Powerful people in russia vs powerful people in the west...and of course the people of Ukraine are the ones paying the price. Rich people start wars. Poor people end them.

I disagree, but I do appreciate you taking the time to explain. Thanks mate.

I will do a little more research on the right wing groups- that is an interesting angle. 

Regardless of reasons, the people of Ukraine are needlessly suffering and dying because of putins actions.

[Tracker]

17 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

I disagree, but I do appreciate you taking the time to explain. Thanks mate.

I will do a little more research on the right wing groups- that is an interesting angle. 

Regardless of reasons, the people of Ukraine are needlessly suffering and dying because of Putin's actions.

About 120 of the dead in Ukraine so far are children. 

47 minutes ago, bustamente said:

So caring and thoughtful, as she attempts to rewrite history being a Trump stooge

 

Being a Trump toadie means you never have to say sorry.

[Bigblue204]

1 hour ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

I disagree, but I do appreciate you taking the time to explain. Thanks mate.

I will do a little more research on the right wing groups- that is an interesting angle. 

Regardless of reasons, the people of Ukraine are needlessly suffering and dying because of putins actions.

Yeah I maybe should have clarified my initial comment....the Ukrainian people are certainly innocent.

[SpeedFlex27]

10 hours ago, the watcher said:

Thanks for that post. The Ukraine certainly took some awful abuse from Stalin. I'm not entirely up on that history but I know he took all the grains produced in the Ukraine at one point as a punishment . The number I recall is 10 million starved to death.

On another note I also really wished I had talked more to the generation before me and written it down. I've pieced some things togeather but wished I had more.

Yes, I feel exctly the same. Both my parents were 1st generation Canadians being born in Manitoba. I had a couple of Uncles born overseas. They & their parents immigrated to our country from Europe. They both would have known their family's stories but no one asked... I never asked... & they never talked about it which was typical of my parent's generation. 

Edited March 3, 2022 by SpeedFlex27

[SpeedFlex27]

5 hours ago, bustamente said:

Body bags for the Russian troops are mounting and parents are going to be receiving a body that was used as a pawn and didn't need to die, as for Putin targeting civilians especially children is about as low as it gets but that's what monsters do.

Everyone needs a heli pad

Put some armour & guns on that yacht & it's a warship. 

[GCJenks]

6 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Put some armour & guns on that yacht & it's a warship. 

I suspect it already has both.

[bluto]

My unpopular opinion:

Any news that tries to tell you that Ukraine isn't being rolled up, and fast, is propaganda.

Melitopol is about 161km from Crimea. Fell in 48hrs.

Kherson is about 418km from Donetsk. Fell in 7 days.

Edited March 3, 2022 by bluto

[GCn20]

49 minutes ago, bluto said:

My unpopular opinion:

Any news that tries to tell you that Ukraine isn't being rolled up, and fast, is propaganda.

Melitopol is about 161km from Crimea. Fell in 48hrs.

Kherson is about 418km from Donetsk. Fell in 7 days.

You are right, your take is unpopular and yes, Ukraine's cities are being rolled up on and some have fallen. Many have not. All of that is irrelevant. A war is not won when one side occupies the other, a war is won when the people being occupied lay down their weapons and no longer resist the occupation. Russia may occupy Ukraine but the Ukrainians have made it very clear they will not be conquered and they will not live peacefully under a Russian banner. This war will be fought for many, many years just less publicly, and it will take significant Russian military engagement to hold Ukraine.

[bluto]

2 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

You are right, your take is unpopular and yes, Ukraine's cities are being rolled up on and some have fallen. Many have not. All of that is irrelevant. A war is not won when one side occupies the other, a war is won when the people being occupied lay down their weapons and no longer resist the occupation. Russia may occupy Ukraine but the Ukrainians have made it very clear they will not be conquered and they will not live peacefully under a Russian banner. This war will be fought for many, many years just less publicly, and it will take significant Russian military engagement to hold Ukraine.

You reckon that they want to?

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

48 minutes ago, bluto said:

You reckon that they want to?

A protracted occupation? absolutely not- they want the corridor to Crimea- that will be the "small ask" to withdraw their troops...