World Politics

[GCn20]

17 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

That's not a red herring. And both certainly were part of the federal gov't - not even a decade ago. Kenney's barely relevant at that level in terms of energy policy; his present tenure as premier of Alberta is a different story. 

The decisions of previous governments, regardless of political stripe, have ramifications beyond the lifespan of a ruling party. (https://www.policynote.ca/energy-and-climate-in-the-harper-decade/) (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/16/canada-election-stephen-harper-fossil-fuel-backfires)

It's not "blaming the past" to take an objective look at history, recent or distant, to see how previous actions influence the current state of a nation. That doesn't excuse the current gov't by any means. More has to be done to tackle our nation's energy demands and nonsensical partisanship should have no place in things such as energy policy, IMO. Causality doesn't necessarily mean blaming anyone and ignoring history has a tendency to lead to mistakes of the past being repeated.

For the moment, though, how will complaining about rising fuel prices elicit change? And what agenda items need to be "moved up" in order to address the significant increase in energy prices presently hitting the wallets of consumers across the globe? It's a challenge for the entire world, not just Canada. Trying to frame it as purely a domestic issue makes about as much sense as the Justinflation narrative peddled by ignoramuses like Poilievre.

And making vulgar statements just makes you look irrational and childish. Be better.

Nope. I don't think vulgarity is uncalled for at this point and time when looking at the gas prices. I am not saying their is a magic bullet that makes gas prices go down to 50 cents a litre in Canada. However, there is no need to be paying 2 dollars a litre either. We can certainly make up the shortfall of oil created by the sanctions on Russia, and stabilize the price of oil at the 100 dollar a barrel mark if we act quickly and especially if we can get Keystone XL up and running. Of immediate concern is the nonsensical refusal of the Liberal government to delay the next implementation of the carbon tax. They should not only be delaying that, but also repealing former increases until world oil supply stabilizes and prices drop to consumers. The Liberal party just keeps showing how out of touch they are with the lower and middle classes by taxing gasoline at the pump right now.

[Mark F]

@blue_gold_84 keep in mind, you are having a discussion with a person that fears that "communists " are a serious threat within Canada. That The NDP is "communist"

Ridiculous that people want the government to take less. But have no complaints when the price is set by oil companies, wall street banks, and Putin. Lol to that.

why we should trust oil companies with anything, is beyond me.

Edited March 8, 2022 by Mark F

[GCn20]

14 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

Oil & Gas will use ANY excuse to gouge consumers, so don't fall for this.  You know how every year we pay more for gas because of refinery "turnarounds"?  The turnarounds are entirely predictable and regular and yet the companies don't build these costs into their cost of production and choose to pass it on to you and I.  

Meanwhile BP has reported their highest profits in 8 years.  https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/08/bp-earnings-q4-2021.html

Exxon earns 23 billion and immediately initiates a $10 billion share buyback.  https://finance.yahoo.com/news/exxonmobil-earns-23-billion-2021-123000970.html

 

There is no question that big oil makes big money. That will never change. That doesn't mean that the federal government doesn't have a fiduciary duty to the tax and rate payers to minimize the cost they pay in any way they can.

[Wideleft]

5 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

There is no question that big oil makes big money. That will never change. That doesn't mean that the federal government doesn't have a fiduciary duty to the tax and rate payers to minimize the cost they pay in any way they can.

It will change when we have the will to say "screw you and your oil" and get on with with our belated transition to renewable energy.

Any expansion of oil and gas or concessions to the Petroleum industry is a step backwards that we cannot afford.

There are 2 horrifying certainties if we continue our over-reliance on oil:

• More wars over oil
• Climate disaster which will lead to wars over water and arable land, 10% of our species becoming extinct and a whole bunch of bad things we haven't even considered.

If oil is so precious, it should be heavily regulated and controlled from the time someone gets an idea to access it to the time it leaves a vent or exhaust pipe.  Treat it like a utility and take the profit out of the equation.

As it is right now, most of our O & G profits leave the country anyway.

[SpeedFlex27]

On 2022-03-07 at 7:52 AM, 17to85 said:

Rule of acquisition  #34, war is good for business.

He doesn't have the lobes. 

6 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

It will change when we have the will to say "screw you and your oil" and get on with with our belated transition to renewable energy.

Any expansion of oil and gas or concessions to the Petroleum industry is a step backwards that we cannot afford.

There are 2 horrifying certainties if we continue our over-reliance on oil:

• More wars over oil
• Climate disaster which will lead to wars over water and arable land, 10% of our species becoming extinct and a whole bunch of bad things we haven't even considered.

If oil is so precious, it should be heavily regulated and controlled from the time someone gets an idea to access it to the time it leaves a vent or exhaust pipe.  Treat it like a utility and take the profit out of the equation.

As it is right now, most of our O & G profits leave the country anyway.

I wouldn't call this a war for oil but a war for control of the Crimea which is a strategic waterway. Putin wanted it so he'll get it. 

[WildPath]

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

doing something now and for the future

This made me laugh out loud. The thought that we need to double down on investments in oil to think for the future... wow.

Throughout this recent oil crisis, renewable energy has been making big gains. The more we have invested in renewable energy, the more independent we become when events like this happen. And they will continue to happen and the results will be more severe. A big part of having a carbon tax is to create a resilient economy with an eye to future energy demands.

Complaining about paying more for gas while civilians in Ukraine are losing everything including their lives is a pretty sad, especially when gas prices are being raised in an attempt to stop the tragedies in Ukraine.

[Wideleft]

8 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I wouldn't call this a war for oil but a war for control of the Crimea which is a strategic waterway. Putin wanted it so he'll get it. 

Paris (AFP) – The Russian head of delegation at a major UN climate conference apologised for his country's invasion of Ukraine on Sunday, which he said lacked justification, according to several sources who heard him speak at the virtual meeting.

..........

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) provided simultaneous translation of his comments into English. AFP did not have access to the original statement in Russian.

Ukraine’s Krakovska, who has tried to continue working despite the assault on her country, addressed the conference on Sunday morning.

"We will not surrender in Ukraine, and we hope the world will not surrender in building a climate resilient future," she said in English, according to multiple sources.

"Human-induced climate change and the war on Ukraine have the same roots -- fossil fuels -- and our dependence on them," she added.

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220227-russian-official-apologises-for-war-in-ukraine-at-un-climate-meet

Edited March 8, 2022 by Wideleft

[blue_gold_84]

17 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

There is no question that big oil makes big money. That will never change. That doesn't mean that the federal government doesn't have a fiduciary duty to the tax and rate payers to minimize the cost they pay in any way they can.

So, let's hold governments accountable in order to ease the crushing burden on the vast majority of taxpayers, but let the oil companies continue to get away with their insatiable greed, as they rake in profits so the obscenely wealthy can continue hoarding wealth. 

Quite the flawed reasoning there. Sounds about right, though.

[SpeedFlex27]

Again, I get what you're point is but Russia is one of the biggest oil producers in the world & I believe has the second largest oil reserves in the world. They want access to the Crimea unfettered. They also believe the Ukraine is historically their territory. Ukraine is ranked 61st in the world for oil production at nearly 56,000 barrels a day. Hardly a war over oil. 

[Wideleft]

12 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Again, I get what you're point is but Russia is one of the biggest oil producers in the world & I believe has the second largest oil reserves in the world. They want access to the Crimea unfettered. They also believe the Ukraine is historically their territory. Ukraine is ranked 61st in the world for oil production at nearly 56,000 barrels a day. Hardly a war over oil. 

It's not always about what's in the ground (well it is, if you're talking about underground pipelines).

 

Some good background here as well.  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60131520

 

[Bigblue204]

44 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

There is no question that big oil makes big money. That will never change. That doesn't mean that the federal government doesn't have a fiduciary duty to the tax and rate payers to minimize the cost they pay in any way they can.

I understand this argument. However I don't for a second believe the people who want this, also won't complain when it comes to how much debt this country is in. We are not in a position to take in less taxes. We just aren't. In fact we should probably be increasing them. There's no reason people, or by proxy our governments should be on the hook for this oil. Oil and gas should be forced to take less profit, lower their prices or face a penalty of some kind. 

On top of that, why spend money on more infrastructure that will be outdated and potentially useless in the next decade or two when we have another country that has said infrastructure and can easily make up for the hole russia is leaving?

[Mark F]

46 minutes ago, WildPath said:

Complaining about paying more for gas while civilians in Ukraine are losing everything including their lives is a pretty sad, especially when gas prices are being raised in an attempt to stop the tragedies in Ukraine.

Shows the actual depth of support for the poor souls in the Ukraine.

 

"Yes, I strongly support the Ukraine; (if it doesnt interfere in the slightest way with me. If I have to drive ten miles per hour slower, I'm out")

An extension of the convoys of dopes. Me, me, me.

Edited March 8, 2022 by Mark F

[blue_gold_84]

16 minutes ago, Mark F said:

Shows the actual depth of support for the poor souls in the Ukraine.

 

"Yes, I strongly support the Ukraine; (if it doesnt interfere in the slightest way with me. If I have to drive ten miles per hour slower, I'm out")

An extension of the convoys of dopes. Me, me, me.

[Wideleft]

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

Nope. I don't think vulgarity is uncalled for at this point and time when looking at the gas prices. I am not saying their is a magic bullet that makes gas prices go down to 50 cents a litre in Canada. However, there is no need to be paying 2 dollars a litre either. We can certainly make up the shortfall of oil created by the sanctions on Russia, and stabilize the price of oil at the 100 dollar a barrel mark if we act quickly and especially if we can get Keystone XL up and running. Of immediate concern is the nonsensical refusal of the Liberal government to delay the next implementation of the carbon tax. They should not only be delaying that, but also repealing former increases until world oil supply stabilizes and prices drop to consumers. The Liberal party just keeps showing how out of touch they are with the lower and middle classes by taxing gasoline at the pump right now.

One other thing.  Even if you could clear all the barriers/hurdles on both sides of the border to complete the Hardisty to Steele City leg (which won't happen) you wouldn't see a drop of crude in Houston for at least 2 years.

This is another non-starter.

[Mark F]

Here's my solution:

trudeau nationalized the pipeline..

Finish the job.
 

1.   Nationalize the oil.

2.    give canadians a price break at the pump.

3.    Sell the rest at world price. Maybe even ( gasp!) build our own refineries. radical!

4.  take the profit from the sale, and build renewable resources.

 

we trust the government with armed forces, police, healthcare.

why not oil?

couldnt it be better,  than say, the Koch Brothers?

at least in theory, the government has the citizens interests foremost.

exxon..... 😂

 

Edited March 8, 2022 by Mark F

[Wideleft]

1 minute ago, Mark F said:

Here's my solution.

 

trudeau nationalized the pipeline..

 

Finish the job.
 

1.   Nationalize the oil.

 

2.    give canadians a price break at the pump.

 

3.    Sell the rest at world price. Maybe even ( gasp!) build our own refineries. radical!

 

4.  take the profit from the sale, and build renewable resources.

 

I liked this idea 20 years ago. 

I think we just need to start investing directly into renewable energy and energy efficiency in a very real way.

[Tracker]

FYI: Did a quick check on gasoline prices. Grand Forks was the equivalent of 85 cents per litre but Norway (one of the happiest countries in the world) was just under the equivalent of almost $4.00 Canadian per litre. We are deliberately driving less and have always chosen fuel-efficient vehicles. This too will pass. 

[Mark F]

Just now, Wideleft said:

I liked this idea 20 years ago. 

I think we just need to start investing directly into renewable energy and energy efficiency in a very real way.

Of course you are right. 
 

I can hear the wailing and screaming already, if trudeau even Thought of nationalzing it.

[Tracker]

1 minute ago, Wideleft said:

I liked this idea 20 years ago. 

I think we just need to start investing directly into renewable energy and energy efficiency in a very real way.

The carbon tax, as evil as the right wing would have you believe, in one step in the right direction. We need to incentivize people and industries to retrofit homes and commercial buildings to be more energy efficient and start taxing vehicles on the basis of fuel consumption. One idea I really like is a 40PMG speed limit.

                                                 

[GCn20]

1 hour ago, Wideleft said:

One other thing.  Even if you could clear all the barriers/hurdles on both sides of the border to complete the Hardisty to Steele City leg (which won't happen) you wouldn't see a drop of crude in Houston for at least 2 years.

This is another non-starter.

Short term yes, long term no. Or we won't need oil in 2 years? Is that your assumption?

[SpeedFlex27]

2 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

I understand this argument. However I don't for a second believe the people who want this, also won't complain when it comes to how much debt this country is in. We are not in a position to take in less taxes. We just aren't. In fact we should probably be increasing them. There's no reason people, or by proxy our governments should be on the hook for this oil. Oil and gas should be forced to take less profit, lower their prices or face a penalty of some kind. 

On top of that, why spend money on more infrastructure that will be outdated and potentially useless in the next decade or two when we have another country that has said infrastructure and can easily make up for the hole russia is leaving?

O&G won't be outdated in a decade. It'll still be in use after we're all gone. 

[GCn20]

8 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

I liked this idea 20 years ago. 

I think we just need to start investing directly into renewable energy and energy efficiency in a very real way.

Sure....but that's 20 years away from fruition even if we start now. Oil is here for awhile yet.

13 minutes ago, Mark F said:

Here's my solution:

trudeau nationalized the pipeline..

Finish the job.
 

1.   Nationalize the oil.

2.    give canadians a price break at the pump.

3.    Sell the rest at world price. Maybe even ( gasp!) build our own refineries. radical!

4.  take the profit from the sale, and build renewable resources.

 

we trust the government with armed forces, police, healthcare.

why not oil?

couldnt it be better,  than say, the Koch Brothers?

at least in theory, the government has the citizens interests foremost.

exxon..... 😂

 

This is an excellent suggestion.

[Fatty Liver]

Putin cracking down on Russian media and public dissent, his downfall has to begin within Russia not Ukraine.  The more freedoms he takes away from Russians the more disgruntled they will become with his leadership.

 

 

[GCn20]

2 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

I understand this argument. However I don't for a second believe the people who want this, also won't complain when it comes to how much debt this country is in. We are not in a position to take in less taxes. We just aren't. In fact we should probably be increasing them. There's no reason people, or by proxy our governments should be on the hook for this oil. Oil and gas should be forced to take less profit, lower their prices or face a penalty of some kind. 

On top of that, why spend money on more infrastructure that will be outdated and potentially useless in the next decade or two when we have another country that has said infrastructure and can easily make up for the hole russia is leaving?

We are not in a position to bankrupt people through taxation either. 

[Wideleft]

4 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Short term yes, long term no. Or we won't need oil in 2 years? Is that your assumption?

Is your assumption that all our oil goes through Keystone XL?  If so, how do we get it back from China?