World Politics

[GCn20]

11 minutes ago, Mark F said:

Of course you are right. 
 

I can hear the wailing and screaming already, if trudeau even Thought of nationalzing it.

For sure Albertans would be POed, but tough nuggets to them.

[Wideleft]

1 minute ago, GCn20 said:

We are not in a position to bankrupt people through taxation either. 

It ain't taxation that's bankrupting us.

[GCn20]

2 hours ago, Mark F said:

@blue_gold_84 keep in mind, you are having a discussion with a person that fears that "communists " are a serious threat within Canada. That The NDP is "communist"

Ridiculous that people want the government to take less. But have no complaints when the price is set by oil companies, wall street banks, and Putin. Lol to that.

why we should trust oil companies with anything, is beyond me.

Nice try. I have stated that the NDP are a socialist party. I have never stated they are communist....and communists are a real threat to ANY democratic nation. 

3 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

It ain't taxation that's bankrupting us.

It's not helping.

2 hours ago, blue_gold_84 said:

So, let's hold governments accountable in order to ease the crushing burden on the vast majority of taxpayers, but let the oil companies continue to get away with their insatiable greed, as they rake in profits so the obscenely wealthy can continue hoarding wealth. 

Quite the flawed reasoning there. Sounds about right, though.

Putting words in my mouth I see. One can ask the government to be accountable to the people and not be happy about corporate greed at the same time. That's such a Liberal way of deflecting blame and it's sickening. Someone disagrees with almight Trudeau paint him as a right wing fanatic by putting words in their mouths. Disgusting way of arguing a point. Shame on you.

[Wideleft]

11 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

O&G won't be outdated in a decade. It'll still be in use after we're all gone. 

For the millionth time, no one has suggested that oil will not be needed at all in our lifetimes.

Meanwhile, Manitoba could have done what Norway (EV adoption rate for new personal vehicles is now 90%) did.

EV incentives

Norway started introducing EV incentives quite early in the 1990s. Initially, the impact was small as the EV range and other features were limited and did not meet the requirements of most buyers. By 2012, the number of EVs in use in Norway reached 10,000 units and grew rapidly.

The most important EV incentives are three big savings items that make the purchase price of nearly all EVs less than that of similar ICEVs. The import tax came first and amounts to thousands of dollars depending on what brand and model. EVs were exempted from the 25 percent VAT from 2001 and can save the typical EV buyer $6,000 to $10,000.

Norway is also adding significant fees to ICEV for CO₂ and NOx emissions, which will top $5,000 for most gasoline and diesel vehicles. There were many other usage savings such as annual road tax fees, which will end in 2022. Toll road and ferry fees had steep discounts that are also being phased out.

These EV incentives have been successful in making EVs very popular in Norway, but many incentives will disappear over the next five years. To continue replacing ICEVs, the key is to retain a competitive EV purchase price versus gasoline and diesel vehicles.

The biggest long–term incentive for EVs is the low fuel cost. Gasoline in Norway is in the $6 to $7 range per gallon. The average electricity price per KWh is less than 10 cents. The typical range for one KWh of battery is 3 to 4 miles, which means you can drive 30 to 40 miles for a dollar of electricity in Norway. If you have 30 MPG ICEV, you will only get five miles for a dollar of gas. That is a very powerful argument to switch to EVs — even if the EV usage cost advantages are lower than in Norway.

https://www.eetimes.com/why-norway-is-leading-in-bev-adoption/#

[Tracker]

1 minute ago, GCn20 said:

Nice try. I have stated that the NDP are a socialist party. I have never stated they are communist....and communists are a real threat to ANY democratic nation. 

I believe you are labouring under a misapprehension about what Communism was designed to be. Communism, if instituted as envisioned, is perfectly compatible with democracy whereas both capitalism (AKA free enterprise) and evangelical "Christianity" proponents have both stated that they would flourish under a "benevolent dictatorship"- if such could exist. Hutterite colonies, although far from perfect and many tribal societies function as Communist societies.

Drivers Facing Record Gas Prices Say They’d Pay More to Stop War

Many U.S. drivers, stung by record gasoline prices, say they’d pay even more if it would end Russia’s war in Ukraine. That doesn’t mean they’re happy about it.

Monday morning’s commute brought the shock of $80 fill-ups in California and New York, as the threat of sanctions and curbs on Russian oil smashed price records that had stood for nearly 14 years. Average pump prices in the U.S. are now $4.173 per gallon.

[Wideleft]

7 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Putting words in my mouth I see. One can ask the government to be accountable to the people and not be happy about corporate greed at the same time. That's such a Liberal way of deflecting blame and it's sickening. Someone disagrees with almight Trudeau paint him as a right wing fanatic by putting words in their mouths. Disgusting way of arguing a point. Shame on you.

The thing is, some people seem to think that you can ask the government to suspend a tax increase because we have the power to collectively vote them out.  It doesn't seem to occur that we also have the power to not vote for politicians who bend their knee to their Petro Masters and let them do whatever they want to our detriment.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

I wonder if Tesla owners are freaking out over the price at the pump?

 

I want what some people in Quebec got- Federal and Provincial subsidies for zero emission vehicles....

Only problem I see with moving to electric vehicles is where are we going to get money for road infrastructure? AM I wrong in my thinking that the tax on fuel is linked to vehicle infrastructure?

[Bigblue204]

22 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

We are not in a position to bankrupt people through taxation either. 

This becomes a non issue if our government does what is best for the people and forces oil and gas to reduce their price at the pumps. Thats the BIGGEST price factor there. not taxes. They will still make a killing, people will save money. It's a win win. Gas is going up due to greed not taxes.

28 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

O&G won't be outdated in a decade. It'll still be in use after we're all gone. 

With the way technology improvements speed up year after year I'd be willing to bet you're wrong.

[SpeedFlex27]

5 minutes ago, Tracker said:

The carbon tax, as evil as the right wing would have you believe, in one step in the right direction. We need to incentivize people and industries to retrofit homes and commercial buildings to be more energy efficient and start taxing vehicles on the basis of fuel consumption. One idea I really like is a 40PMG speed limit.

So, should we break out the horse & buggies now or will environmentalists complain horses fart & poop too much? Just askin'...

As far as incentivizing people to retrofit their homes, if it costs $30-$40,000 to do so, you really think governments will pay for that through some kind of energy grants? I'd doubt it. They'll pay a portion like 15%, then tell us how fortunate we, as Canadians are to have a program like that. Then throw the majority of the cost back onto homeowners & taxpayers. Or will politicians like Trudeau, Guilbault & Singh just think people will happily go into mega debt to pay for it all?

Eventually people saddled with high taxes & debt will say ENOUGH!! It's already happening. The social unrest we're experiencing is just beginning, unfortunately. Trudeau, Guibault & Singh can yap all they want about the environment but the majority of Canadians don't want to be penalized or be forced to pay for this. These taxes & high costs the Liberals are throwing at us will just make people angry as they struggle to make ends meet & their standard of living falls.

Sorry, I'm not a social conservative but I'm a fiscal one. I don't like high taxes. I'll always be that way. My problem is I don't have a political party to vote for. 

[Wideleft]

1 minute ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

I wonder if Tesla owners are freaking out over the price at the pump?

 

I want what some people in Quebec got- Federal and Provincial subsidies for zero emission vehicles....

Only problem I see with moving to electric vehicles is where are we going to get money for road infrastructure? AM I wrong in my thinking that the tax on fuel is linked to vehicle infrastructure?

Read the Norway article.  You incentivize EV purchases by waiving certain fees (VAT tax or direct rebate) and you penalize ICE ownership.  The penalties pay for road maintenance.  They also offered rebates to EV owners at ferries and tolls, but don't need to anymore.  After all that, you own a vehicle which is much cheaper to own over it's lifetime. 

It would be naive to think that there wouldn't need to be a specific road maintenance tax if you reached 90% EV adoption, but a tax is still better for the environment than CO2 emissions.

[SpeedFlex27]

2 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

This becomes a non issue if our government does what is best for the people and forces oil and gas to reduce their price at the pumps. Thats the BIGGEST price factor there. not taxes. They will still make a killing, people will save money. It's a win win. Gas is going up due to greed not taxes.

With the way technology improvements speed up year after year I'd be willing to bet you're wrong.

Let's agree to meet in 50 years over some soft food & apple juice to discuss. 

[bustamente]

Re write history while you can still hood wink American dolts

 

[Bigblue204]

8 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

So, should we break out the horse & buggies now or will environmentalists complain horses fart & poop too much? Just askin'...

As far as incentivizing people to retrofit their homes, if it costs $30-$40,000 to do so, you really think governments will pay for that through some kind of energy grants? I'd doubt it. They'll pay a portion like 15%, then tell us how fortunate we, as Canadians are to have a program like that. Then throw the majority of the cost back onto homeowners & taxpayers. Or will politicians like Trudeau, Guilbault & Singh just think people will happily go into mega debt to pay for it all?

Eventually people saddled with high taxes & debt will say ENOUGH!! It's already happening. The social unrest we're experiencing is just beginning, unfortunately. Trudeau, Guibault & Singh can yap all they want about the environment but the majority of Canadians don't want to be penalized or be forced to pay for this. These taxes & high costs the Liberals are throwing at us will just make people angry as they struggle to make ends meet & their standard of living falls.

Sorry, I'm not a social conservative but I'm a fiscal one. I don't like high taxes. I'll always be that way. My problem is I don't have a political party to vote for. 

This might be part of the problem. Do you believe it's the governments fault for the prices at the pump? Gas prices being high is 99% due to the company selling it, not the liberals.

People will always complain. Complain about high taxes, in the next breath complain about crappy health care/education/policing/infrastructure etc etc. You can't have low taxes and public everything. That's just not how it works.

What you really want, is a government that holds companies accountable for gouging the public. If we had that, this wouldn't be an issue at all. 

While I'm hear, I'll remind EVERYONE that the Harper government put us further in debt than any other government before it....spending (regardless of what politicians say) is not a Left vs Right issue. They all spend more than they bring in.

[Wideleft]

14 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Let's agree to meet in 50 years over some soft food & apple juice to discuss. 

We don't seem to have a solution (yet) to replace certain plastics and we can't yet smelt steel without coal.  That doesn't mean we shouldn't start taking care of the 80-90% that can be transitioned now.  

We're always just one brilliant mind away from significant change.  I just learned this week that Thomas Edison told his employee Nikola Tesla that the AC motor was a pipedream.  Tesla figured it out.

2 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

While I'm hear, I'll remind EVERYONE that the Harper government put us further in debt than any other government before it....spending (regardless of what politicians say) is not a Left vs Right issue. They all spend more than they bring in.

And he did it during an oil boom.

Edited March 8, 2022 by Wideleft

[blue_gold_84]

34 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Putting words in my mouth I see. One can ask the government to be accountable to the people and not be happy about corporate greed at the same time. That's such a Liberal way of deflecting blame and it's sickening. Someone disagrees with almight Trudeau paint him as a right wing fanatic by putting words in their mouths. Disgusting way of arguing a point. Shame on you.

Do us all a favour and spare the feigned indignation and baseless assumptions for Facebook. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them a liberal, much in the same way your flawed reasoning being pointed out doesn't make you a right wing fanatic.

15 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

This becomes a non issue if our government does what is best for the people and forces oil and gas to reduce their price at the pumps. Thats the BIGGEST price factor there. not taxes. They will still make a killing, people will save money. It's a win win. Gas is going up due to greed not taxes.

Exactly. Greed is destroying the world as we know it, not taxes.

[Bigblue204]

4 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

We don't seem to have a solution (yet) to replace certain plastics and we can't yet smelt steel without coal.  That doesn't mean we shouldn't start taking care of the 80-90% that can be transitioned now.  

We're always just one brilliant mind away from significant change.  I just learned this week that Thomas Edison told his employee Nikola Tesla that the AC motor was a pipedream.  Tesla figured it out.

And he did it during an oil boom.

Tech is essentially improving at an exponential rate right now. Never mind wind/solar/geo thermal etc. which will all play a big role. There's also fusion tech than has come a very long ways...and once we figure that out (we will) it will literally change the world over night.

[Wideleft]

We should also ban any entertainment industry that consumes vast amounts of fuel unless they purchase carbon offsets or pay a pollution fee.

• Cruise ships
• Air shows
• Auto racing

for starters.

3 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

Tech is essentially improving at an exponential rate right now. Never mind wind/solar/geo thermal etc. which will all play a big role. There's also fusion tech than has come a very long ways...and once we figure that out (we will) it will literally change the world over night.

I think I posted an article on nano-reactors in the climate discussion about a year ago.  The possibilities are endless.

[Fatty Liver]

1 hour ago, Wideleft said:

The thing is, some people seem to think that you can ask the government to suspend a tax increase because we have the power to collectively vote them out.  It doesn't seem to occur that we also have the power to not vote for politicians who bend their knee to their Petro Masters and let them do whatever they want to our detriment.

Jason Kenny did it.....and no one should mention this is a direct subsidy for oil and gas, war is tough on everyone!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-pausing-provincial-fuel-tax-collection-1.6375882

[Wideleft]

8 minutes ago, Fatty Liver said:

Jason Kenny did it.....and no one should mention this is a direct subsidy for oil and gas, war is tough on everyone!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-pausing-provincial-fuel-tax-collection-1.6375882

I'm aware.  Also aware that he has an upcoming leadership review and a provincial election in 2023.  

[blue_gold_84]

9 minutes ago, Fatty Liver said:

Jason Kenny did it.....and no one should mention this is a direct subsidy for oil and gas, war is tough on everyone!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-pausing-provincial-fuel-tax-collection-1.6375882

All this does is increase the province's debt, though. This is a political play by Kenney, considering his mismanagement of basically everything he's touched as premier.

[17to85]

2 hours ago, Mark F said:

Here's my solution:

trudeau nationalized the pipeline..

Finish the job.
 

1.   Nationalize the oil.

2.    give canadians a price break at the pump.

3.    Sell the rest at world price. Maybe even ( gasp!) build our own refineries. radical!

4.  take the profit from the sale, and build renewable resources.

 

we trust the government with armed forces, police, healthcare.

why not oil?

couldnt it be better,  than say, the Koch Brothers?

at least in theory, the government has the citizens interests foremost.

exxon..... 😂

 

Nationalize a natural resource.... do you want to rip the country apart? Cause you start so brazenly stepping into provincial jurisdictions that is what will happen. 

[Tracker]

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

So, should we break out the horse & buggies now or will environmentalists complain horses fart & poop too much? Just askin'...

As far as incentivizing people to retrofit their homes, if it costs $30-$40,000 to do so, you really think governments will pay for that through some kind of energy grants? I'd doubt it. They'll pay a portion like 15%, then tell us how fortunate we, as Canadians are to have a program like that. Then throw the majority of the cost back onto homeowners & taxpayers. Or will politicians like Trudeau, Guilbault & Singh just think people will happily go into mega debt to pay for it all?

Eventually people saddled with high taxes & debt will say ENOUGH!! It's already happening. The social unrest we're experiencing is just beginning, unfortunately. Trudeau, Guibault & Singh can yap all they want about the environment but the majority of Canadians don't want to be penalized or be forced to pay for this. These taxes & high costs the Liberals are throwing at us will just make people angry as they struggle to make ends meet & their standard of living falls.

Sorry, I'm not a social conservative but I'm a fiscal one. I don't like high taxes. I'll always be that way. My problem is I don't have a political party to vote for. 

Where do you get those figures from?

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

6 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Nationalize a natural resource.... do you want to rip the country apart? Cause you start so brazenly stepping into provincial jurisdictions that is what will happen. 

Think of it more like...

The Feds come in, take the role of all corporations involved in oil, like one big conglomerate- but one that has the average citizens as shareholders....

[do or die]

Oh, the irony....
Cheap Chinese tires blamed for Russian convoy unable to reach Kyiv
https://www.cityam.com/cheap-chinese-tires-blamed-as-russian-convoy-unable-to-reach-kyiv/

[Noeller]

13 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Think of it more like...

The Feds come in, take the role of all corporations involved in oil, like one big conglomerate- but one that has the average citizens as shareholders....

Rural Albertans would read that and scream COMMUNISISM!!!! so fast it'd make your head spin....