Playcalling or execution? Play-by-play breakdown of offence vs. Mtl.

[JCon]

6 minutes ago, Deiter Fan said:

Paraphrasing...

The guys came in at half-time all fired up over the lead talking about how they were going to run it up in the second half and I told them to calm down and re-focus...which is what good coaches are supposed to do, right? Maybe that was the wrong thing to do. Maybe I should have let them feed off their bravado.

Players feed off momentum and he wanted them to forget about all the momentum they built up in the first half and go out as if it was zero-zero.

That's not what he said. 

[Deiter Fan]

Just now, JCon said:

That's not what he said. 

Not exactly that's why I said paraphrased...but the gist is accurate. If you disagree then correct me.

[JCon]

1 minute ago, Deiter Fan said:

Not exactly that's why I said paraphrased...but the gist is accurate. If you disagree then correct me.

I did, I said, "that's not what he said". It's up there. ^ 

[Mike]

Huge O'Shea fan here, but he has his faults and one of them that always baffles me is the overly respectful way he wants to coach his football team against opponents. When O'Shea played, he was one of the most ruthless players you could imagine and there wasn't much he wouldn't do to win the game. Now that he coaches, it's like if he had his way, he'd go into the opponents locker room and hand out orange slices at halftime. 

If your team comes into the locker room at halftime with that kind of league and you have a young QB full of attitude, you don't stifle that with this "hold your horses, fellas" stuff, you tell them to get out there and stay focused but step on their throat and make them remember what kind of football team you are. It's ridiculous. You can blame it on the players all you want, but it's not a coincidence that this stuff has continually happened whether it was Drew Willy, Matt Nichols or Chris Streveler under centre. We get a lead, we get cautious and polite and we blow it. It's sad and quite frankly, it's the exact type of stuff that makes me believe we aren't going to win a championship unless O'Shea changes his stance on this stuff. Winners play to win and if they come into a locker room at halftime up three scores, they want to end the game up six scores. Punish the other team.

Don't even get me started on LaPolice. The guy goes ultra conservative with any kind of comfortable lead and then seems to panics his way into calling stupid gimmick **** to get back on track. Brilliant offensive mind, but man does he struggle with game script and he always has. Does not put his players in a position to succeed once they get up on an opponent. It's gross that it keeps happening over and over. Beyond frustrating.

[Deiter Fan]

1 minute ago, JCon said:

I did, I said, "that's not what he said". It's up there. ^ 

If you're so sure I'm wrong then you must know what he actually said...so feel free to share it.

[Booch]

4 minutes ago, Mike said:

Huge O'Shea fan here, but he has his faults and one of them that always baffles me is the overly respectful way he wants to coach his football team against opponents. When O'Shea played, he was one of the most ruthless players you could imagine and there wasn't much he wouldn't do to win the game. Now that he coaches, it's like if he had his way, he'd go into the opponents locker room and hand out orange slices at halftime. 

If your team comes into the locker room at halftime with that kind of league and you have a young QB full of attitude, you don't stifle that with this "hold your horses, fellas" stuff, you tell them to get out there and stay focused but step on their throat and make them remember what kind of football team you are. It's ridiculous. You can blame it on the players all you want, but it's not a coincidence that this stuff has continually happened whether it was Drew Willy, Matt Nichols or Chris Streveler under centre. We get a lead, we get cautious and polite and we blow it. It's sad and quite frankly, it's the exact type of stuff that makes me believe we aren't going to win a championship unless O'Shea changes his stance on this stuff. Winners play to win and if they come into a locker room at halftime up three scores, they want to end the game up six scores. Punish the other team.

Don't even get me started on LaPolice. The guy goes ultra conservative with any kind of comfortable lead and then seems to panics his way into calling stupid gimmick **** to get back on track. Brilliant offensive mind, but man does he struggle with game script and he always has. Does not put his players in a position to succeed once they get up on an opponent. It's gross that it keeps happening over and over. Beyond frustrating.

thats why I loved Cal Murphy and he had success...you had a team down...you keep kicking and pile on...and he took heat for it around the league for showing teams up...but he didn't give a rats arse....and if he seen a player ease up and coast....he wouldn't think twice to remove from game day roster next game...or flat out release you the following week...

I too am sickened by the mr nice guy image they want to promote....time to start being a bit of a prick...and trust me...a team feeds off that and never lets up and have the late game issues we do

You can't just turn it on and off in the course of a game when you feel the need...its pedal down...for 60 minutes...nothing more..nothing less

[JCon]

8 minutes ago, Deiter Fan said:

If you're so sure I'm wrong then you must know what he actually said...so feel free to share it.

I went back and listened to it again. I don't disagree with your interpretation. When I first listened to it,  Coach made it sound like a passive, "we're going to try to score more" versus "we're going to run up the score on them". But, that's splitting hairs and may not be that different. 

I'm wrong. 

[do or die]

How can you be "Canadian Mafia" and "nice guys" at the same time?  Conundrum.

[Deiter Fan]

6 minutes ago, JCon said:

I went back and listened to it again. I don't disagree with your interpretation. When I first listened to it,  Coach made it sound like a passive, "we're going to try to score more" versus "we're going to run up the score on them". But, that's splitting hairs and may not be that different. 

I'm wrong. 

I just went back and am listening to it again just to make sure I didn't get it wrong...and as I said it was just paraphrased so definitely not a word for word recreation...but I appreciate your integrity.

For anyone that wants to hear it

https://globalnews.ca/pages/audio-vault-cjob/?gref=cjob

Sept 23 - 7pm - 8min in

Edited September 26, 2019 by Deiter Fan

[MC]

Lose one game and everyone has to go.  

The lack of patience from the fan base - and the board - is the very reason we have gone almost three decades between cup wins.  

The one thing about the current head coach is that he has successfully taken the bullet for the players' failures.  Some people would say that is a sign of leadership.

[wbbfan]

2 hours ago, Noeller said:

The secondary has looked like world beaters at times this season...but then there's times, like the final drive in Sask and in Montreal, where they look like they couldn't stop the Rifles from marching on them. Not sure what that means exactly...

Prevent defense. 

 

5 hours ago, MOBomberFan said:

Sanchez explains why Man 2 is a dumb play in the redzone. Our DBs didn't jam anyone, just let them cruise on by. Bad call + bad execution = gimme go ahead TD

https://www.cfl.ca/2019/09/25/chez-sez-analyzing-bombers-coverage-on-final-play-vs-montreal/

Hes partly right. Cover 2 would be fine, if bighill wasnt being sent on a QB contain none blitz. If he was playing a middle zone at the goal line instead, like a robber under 2, or in US terms the tampa-2 cover 2 system, you can pick up all 3 on their breaks. I do think bump and run is the best option in the red zone as timing routes and double moves are never going to be covered perfectly and all you need is a small angle to get that pass in. 

Imo, thats also a perfect situation to either go 30 front or drop willy back deep. 3 man fronts dont get the immediate pressure of an edge rush, but they do a better job of preventing really long pockets. With 2 guys rushing inside gaps and drake on the nose some one will come free. You often see hail mary situations fail, with a 30 front sacking the qb after the 3.5 second range.

The bump throws off any timing routes, the second level of secondary help makes the qb wait for a second move / long pattern, mean while the pocket is being pushed back on his lap. If Im gonna send a man, id rather send a Dhb from the blind side and rotate coverage or roll a LB/drop willy under where the db is coming from. 

[wbbfan]

11 minutes ago, MC said:

Lose one game and everyone has to go.  

The lack of patience from the fan base - and the board - is the very reason we have gone almost three decades between cup wins.  

The one thing about the current head coach is that he has successfully taken the bullet for the players' failures.  Some people would say that is a sign of leadership.

no. We almost certainly will lose atleast one more game this year, and no one will be fired because of it. 

Lol. no. passions of the fan base, and patience from fans has little to no effect on management. If it did, hall would have been fired 37 times since he was hired here. This is mos and co's 6th year here. With far more disappointing play off performances then not. Thats a long time to have this much rope, and win 1 play off game. 

He has, and it is. But taking bullets for players doesnt help when you continually put them in positions to be shot at. 

[Noeller]

1 hour ago, Mike said:

Huge O'Shea fan here, but he has his faults and one of them that always baffles me is the overly respectful way he wants to coach his football team against opponents. When O'Shea played, he was one of the most ruthless players you could imagine and there wasn't much he wouldn't do to win the game. Now that he coaches, it's like if he had his way, he'd go into the opponents locker room and hand out orange slices at halftime. 

If your team comes into the locker room at halftime with that kind of league and you have a young QB full of attitude, you don't stifle that with this "hold your horses, fellas" stuff, you tell them to get out there and stay focused but step on their throat and make them remember what kind of football team you are. It's ridiculous. You can blame it on the players all you want, but it's not a coincidence that this stuff has continually happened whether it was Drew Willy, Matt Nichols or Chris Streveler under centre. We get a lead, we get cautious and polite and we blow it. It's sad and quite frankly, it's the exact type of stuff that makes me believe we aren't going to win a championship unless O'Shea changes his stance on this stuff. Winners play to win and if they come into a locker room at halftime up three scores, they want to end the game up six scores. Punish the other team.

Don't even get me started on LaPolice. The guy goes ultra conservative with any kind of comfortable lead and then seems to panics his way into calling stupid gimmick **** to get back on track. Brilliant offensive mind, but man does he struggle with game script and he always has. Does not put his players in a position to succeed once they get up on an opponent. It's gross that it keeps happening over and over. Beyond frustrating.

I appreciate this post, but I'm still remembering about a year or so ago, when you said "I'm so over this regime" (Miller/Walters/Osh)........   I respect that opinions can change, as situations change....all good. I just chuckled at the time you originally said it. 

[Tracker]

37 minutes ago, MC said:

Lose one game and everyone has to go.  The lack of patience from the fan base - and the board - is the very reason we have gone almost three decades between cup wins.  

The one thing about the current head coach is that he has successfully taken the bullet for the players' failures.  Some people would say that is a sign of leadership.

Strongly disagree. The turnovers happened due to really, really bad hires by the board and GMs and the lack of good players coming into the team. The frustration of the fans were and are a reflection of that incompetence. O'Shea may or may not be the coach to finally lead the team to the Grey Cup final, but the polarized thinking of many in this forum, that it's either O'Shea or a return to the Dark Ages does not help. If it comes down to Walters firing O'Shea, the same intelligence and diligence that Walters has shown in building the team would also guide him in finding a good replacement for O'Shea.

[17to85]

1 hour ago, MC said:

Lose one game and everyone has to go.  

The lack of patience from the fan base - and the board - is the very reason we have gone almost three decades between cup wins.  

Oh please, this is the third time we've had Paul Lapolice as the teams offensive coordinator. These aren't new concerns here, in fact he has been fired from this very team twice before because of his play calling problems. 

How many years of the 30 has Lapo been OC here? He owns a big piece of that record it seems to me. 

[TrueBlue4ever]

3 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Oh please, this is the third time we've had Paul Lapolice as the teams offensive coordinator. These aren't new concerns here, in fact he has been fired from this very team twice before because of his play calling problems. 

How many years of the 30 has Lapo been OC here? He owns a big piece of that record it seems to me. 

5 (6 counting this year).

[Bigblue204]

4 hours ago, wbbfan said:

Prevent defense. 

 

Hes partly right. Cover 2 would be fine, if bighill wasnt being sent on a QB contain none blitz. If he was playing a middle zone at the goal line instead, like a robber under 2, or in US terms the tampa-2 cover 2 system, you can pick up all 3 on their breaks. I do think bump and run is the best option in the red zone as timing routes and double moves are never going to be covered perfectly and all you need is a small angle to get that pass in. 

Imo, thats also a perfect situation to either go 30 front or drop willy back deep. 3 man fronts dont get the immediate pressure of an edge rush, but they do a better job of preventing really long pockets. With 2 guys rushing inside gaps and drake on the nose some one will come free. You often see hail mary situations fail, with a 30 front sacking the qb after the 3.5 second range.

The bump throws off any timing routes, the second level of secondary help makes the qb wait for a second move / long pattern, mean while the pocket is being pushed back on his lap. If Im gonna send a man, id rather send a Dhb from the blind side and rotate coverage or roll a LB/drop willy under where the db is coming from. 

This drove me crazy. I was yelling at the tv...why the **** is he playing contain with seconds left on the clock?? I can understand not want VAJ to just walk into the endzone. But he was legit playing it basically on the line of scrimmage. Should have been deeper.

[17to85]

23 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

5 (6 counting this year).

so not counting his time as head coach? Cause his passive tendencies showed up there too. Guy has been part of like 9 years of futility. 

[DR. CFL]

5 hours ago, MC said:

Lose one game and everyone has to go.  

The lack of patience from the fan base - and the board - is the very reason we have gone almost three decades between cup wins.  

The one thing about the current head coach is that he has successfully taken the bullet for the players' failures.  Some people would say that is a sign of leadership.

Lack of patience.....this is now what the 5 th year of the patient plan.....l

[wbbfan]

2 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

This drove me crazy. I was yelling at the tv...why the **** is he playing contain with seconds left on the clock?? I can understand not want VAJ to just walk into the endzone. But he was legit playing it basically on the line of scrimmage. Should have been deeper.

Yep. If he was playing a medium zone around the goal line he would have still been able to spy vaj. not like he was gonna look to run that one in either. The prevent defense prevented the win again. 

[pigseye]

I can only say the same thing we have been saying for years, we need better import receivers and we need 4 of them on the field all the time. This shouldn't be hard given we start a national at RB?

What happened to the days of starting Milt, Simon, Bruce, Armstrong, Edwards, Bryant etc. We used to be able to throw out 4 nationals that would scare the pants of the other team, now we don't even start one that can do that.

Streveler is good enough to get it done but man he needs some great receivers to throw the ball to. 

This isn't a knock on our Canuck receivers either. 

[Mr Dee]

Personally, I don’t believe we can make that assessment under LaPolice’s tenure with this particular team. 

Ball control and run based. Not a receiver’s dream destination.

 

[NorthernSkunk]

5 minutes ago, Mr Dee said:

Personally, I don’t believe we can make that assessment under LaPolice’s tenure with this particular team. 

Ball control and run based. Not a receiver’s dream destination.

 

If you believe Lawler it's about " W's "

 

Edited September 29, 2019 by NorthernSkunk

[J5V]

3 hours ago, Mr Dee said:

Personally, I don’t believe we can make that assessment under LaPolice’s tenure with this particular team. 

Ball control and run based. Not a receiver’s dream destination.

Agree. I think with Streveler and an OC that leans towards a more vertical, balanced attack we can be deadly on offense and really maximize the talents of guys like AH.