Playcalling or execution? Play-by-play breakdown of offence vs. Mtl.

[TrueBlue4ever]

9 hours ago, Deiter Fan said:

While I don't necessarily disagree the only thing that matters is how has playing soft (for lack of a better term) been working for this particular regime over the last few seasons?

When even MOS is second guessing his attitude one has to wonder if perhaps it hasn't been having the desired effect.

 

8 hours ago, Mr Dee said:

I’d like to see us take more chances on offence

because,

playing safe, hasn’t really worked out for us.

According to O’Shea, we are 41-4 under him when winning the turnover battle. Playing safe (as opposed to playing soft) seems to have worked pretty well under him. No Grey Cups during that time might have something to do with the juggernaut called the Stamps as much as it does with lack of aggressiveness. 

[Deiter Fan]

22 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

No Grey Cups during that time

If I'm not mistaken he is now the 2nd longest serving coach in Bomber history and all we have to show for it is a .500 W/L record and one play-off win out of 4 tries.

Not slagging him but facts are facts.

Edited September 25, 2019 by Deiter Fan

[do or die]

12 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

 

According to O’Shea, we are 41-4 under him when winning the turnover battle. Playing safe (as opposed to playing soft) seems to have worked pretty well under him. No Grey Cups during that time might have something to do with the juggernaut called the Stamps as much as it does with lack of aggressiveness. 

We went through this before.......against the ole Edmonton dynasty

[MC]

Hmm... trying to think of a team that has it's offensive and defensive philosophies and sticks to it no matter what.  Oh yeah, it's the Stampeders under Hufnagel.

He has been there long enough to know what types of players fit with his system and which do not. 

You should hear the Calgary fans complain when their team loses.  It sounds just like this group here.  

You might be surprised the way many there talk about BLM.  It doesn't sound anything like how other fan bases talk about him.

[Carlos Harper]

12 hours ago, Deiter Fan said:

If I'm not mistaken he is now the 2nd longest serving coach in Bomber history and all we have to show for it is a .500 W/L record and one play-off win out of 4 tries.

Not slagging him but facts are facts.

I've been watching this one as well. He has passed Dave Ritchie and trails Cal Murphy and Bud Grant. Some of the totals include playoff games. 

Don't see much talk about it but I believe both Walters and O'Shea's contracts are up or at least have not been announced as having been extended to my knowledge.

Giving O'Shea another 3 years could mean he passes Grant before winning a Grey Cup.  That has to qualify as having been given a chance. 

[Noeller]

11 minutes ago, Carlos Harper said:

I've been watching this one as well. He has passed Dave Ritchie and trails Cal Murphy and Bud Grant. Some of the totals include playoff games. 

Don't see much talk about it but I believe both Walters and O'Shea's contracts are up or at least have not been announced as having been extended to my knowledge.

Giving O'Shea another 3 years could mean he passes Grant before winning a Grey Cup.  That has to qualify as having been given a chance. 

Walters contract is set up to expire a year after MOS......I believe MOS is up after this year, and then Walters after 2020. They won't look at anything until after this season has concluded. 

[Old Bomber Fan]

I believe it has been said many times before but to repeat you play to win not play to not lose there is a huge difference. It doesn't mean you have to run up the score but you do have to play call to move the ball and retain possession. Should you score a TD per quarter or a field goal here or there is different than kicking a 3 point field goal with less than a minute remaining up by 20. There is a difference and I have a hard time believing professional football players cannot grasp the difference between being level headed yet fired up and level headed and relaxing. Momentum as has been stated so often in this forum and on TV is a big thing in sports....it can carry you to victory when victory seems lost or losing momentum can lead to defeat when victory seemed secure. Surely MOS and LaPo and Hall understand that so why then do they lay back, become predictable. As has been said here almost appears they outthink themselves. Will we win in November, that remains to be seem but unless the coaches change their approach our momentum is lost I fear.

 

[Deiter Fan]

28 minutes ago, Carlos Harper said:

I've been watching this one as well. He has passed Dave Ritchie and trails Cal Murphy and Bud Grant. Some of the totals include playoff games. 

Don't see much talk about it but I believe both Walters and O'Shea's contracts are up or at least have not been announced as having been extended to my knowledge.

Giving O'Shea another 3 years could mean he passes Grant before winning a Grey Cup.  That has to qualify as having been given a chance. 

Yes. I didn't include Murphy because his stints were broken up but yes, technically the 3rd longest serving coach if we add Murphy's together.

In his defence he was raw as a HC when given the job and has, admittedly, gotten better over his tenure...but there appears to be a hurdle here that he is having difficulty clearing and this year especially it can't be blamed on talent...and I'm not sure talent can be blamed for the last couple of years.  A coach's job is to get the most out his players.

We've had consistency in the coaching positions and the QB spot so we can't blame it all on turnover in important areas.

If he doesn't get us to the Cup this year given all the pieces he's been provided at what point do we begin to discuss the possibility that the issue is his coaching philosophies?

[BomberfanMKS]

1 hour ago, Deiter Fan said:

Yes. I didn't include Murphy because his stints were broken up but yes, technically the 3rd longest serving coach if we add Murphy's together.

In his defence he was raw as a HC when given the job and has, admittedly, gotten better over his tenure...but there appears to be a hurdle here that he is having difficulty clearing and this year especially it can't be blamed on talent...and I'm not sure talent can be blamed for the last couple of years.  A coach's job is to get the most out his players.

We've had consistency in the coaching positions and the QB spot so we can't blame it all on turnover in important areas.

If he doesn't get us to the Cup this year given all the pieces he's been provided at what point do we begin to discuss the possibility that the issue is his coaching philosophies?

Not only was he raw as an HC when he got the job... the team was a dumpster fire due to bad mgmt and a revolving door of coaches and GM's.  Walters and O'shea decided to try and build a consistent championship contender, which means not pulling a Taman and trading away all your draft picks on aging vets.

That combination was going to end up in ALOT of losses for their first couple of years (combined with the fact we really didn't have a QB until we acquired Nichols)

[Bigblue204]

1 hour ago, Deiter Fan said:

Yes. I didn't include Murphy because his stints were broken up but yes, technically the 3rd longest serving coach if we add Murphy's together.

In his defence he was raw as a HC when given the job and has, admittedly, gotten better over his tenure...but there appears to be a hurdle here that he is having difficulty clearing and this year especially it can't be blamed on talent...and I'm not sure talent can be blamed for the last couple of years.  A coach's job is to get the most out his players.

We've had consistency in the coaching positions and the QB spot so we can't blame it all on turnover in important areas.

If he doesn't get us to the Cup this year given all the pieces he's been provided at what point do we begin to discuss the possibility that the issue is his coaching philosophies?

I'm not sure you can. A failed coaching philosophy wouldn't produce the amount of wins he has. His loss total isn't much better, but that has a lot to do with what he had to build to get the team to this point. His last three years have been just shy of great.
People can point to playoff losses. I'm one of them. That's all that matters and it is inflated in WPG due to the drought. But in a one game winner takes all format. The best teams aren't always going to win. That's exactly the reason why the drought is still going on. So while I don't like one and done post seasons, I would need to see a lot more losses during the regular season to be ready to move on from MOS.

[BomberfanMKS]

21 hours ago, wbbfan said:

I could see montreal snatching him up.  With his past experience with khari, they now have an opening at OC, and both of them called plays in that stint as well. Could be a good marriage tbh, khari is aggressive down field and could compensate for Plops passivity. 

I can't see Lapolice in Mtrl... he's looking for a head coaching role and winning Coach of the Year is probably going to mean Khari gets to lose the "interim" in his title.  MTRL will be hiring an OC replacement, not a Head coach.

[Deiter Fan]

2 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

I would need to see a lot more losses during the regular season to be ready to move on from MOS.

Fair enough.

Just to be clear to all members here I'm not advocating that we do...or not do...something. To be honest while I've followed this team since the 70s it's never been a hobby for me like it has for some of the more learned members here. My comments in many instances are not coming from a place of deep knowledge of the intricacies of the game but rather from the point of an interested/invested observer.

I may be a student of the human condition/tendencies and feel I can speak confidently about that aspect but not the complicated ins and outs of the game...so please don't take my comments as dismissive or arrogant. They are certainly not intended that way.

Edited September 25, 2019 by Deiter Fan

[HardCoreBlue]

3 hours ago, Deiter Fan said:

Fair enough.

Just to be clear to all members here I'm not advocating that we do...or not do...something. To be honest while I've followed this team since the 70s it's never been a hobby for me like it has for some of the more learned members here. My comments in many instances are not coming from a place of deep knowledge of the intricacies of the game but rather from the point of an interested/invested observer.

I may be a student of the human condition/tendencies and feel I can speak confidently about that aspect but not the complicated ins and outs of the game...so please don't take my comments as dismissive or arrogant. They are certainly not intended that way.

Ultimately MOS will move on or be shown the door. Timetable unknown. The adage coaches are hired to be fired rings true in most cases.

[Mark F]

I don't think it's time to talk about letting O'Shea go. The team can still easily go on to win the whole thing.

We won't see another let down like the last one. I doubt that it bugs anyone as much as it does O'Shea.

my thinking is it's going to be pedal to the metal from now on.

[J5V]

3 hours ago, Deiter Fan said:

Fair enough.

Just to be clear to all members here I'm not advocating that we do...or not do...something. To be honest while I've followed this team since the 70s it's never been a hobby for me like it has for some of the more learned members here. My comments in many instances are not coming from a place of deep knowledge of the intricacies of the game but rather from the point of an interested/invested observer.

I may be a student of the human condition/tendencies and feel I can speak confidently about that aspect but not the complicated ins and outs of the game...so please don't take my comments as dismissive or arrogant. They are certainly not intended that way.

What posts?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:-)

[Deiter Fan]

34 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Ultimately MOS will move on or be shown the door. Timetable unknown. The adage coaches are hired to be fired rings true in most cases.

My thoughts/feelings on this entire situation are constantly evolving. I can't deny that our regular season records have been pretty good since he took over (the first 2 years not withstanding) so he obviously has skills as a coach...and it's probably accurate that he is likely to stay as long as that remains the case.

The fact is we really have little insight into how much influence he has on play calling on either side of the ball...how he runs the locker room (except for the tid-bit he let slip during the call in show this week which, frankly, surprised and concerned me a bit)...or any other number of things that may influence our performance.

In reality we simply have to take what we get and hope that at some point they make it to the show and come home with the Cup because god knows we have no control over it. That is probably what frustrates us the most.

Edited September 26, 2019 by Deiter Fan

[Noeller]

I feel like it wasn't that long ago we were talking about giving MOS a lifetime contract around here.... 

[MOBomberFan]

Sanchez explains why Man 2 is a dumb play in the redzone. Our DBs didn't jam anyone, just let them cruise on by. Bad call + bad execution = gimme go ahead TD

https://www.cfl.ca/2019/09/25/chez-sez-analyzing-bombers-coverage-on-final-play-vs-montreal/

[do or die]

9 hours ago, Noeller said:

I feel like it wasn't that long ago we were talking about giving MOS a lifetime contract around here.... 

The coordinators are a bigger problem.....

[TrueBlue4ever]

10 minutes ago, do or die said:

The coordinators are a bigger problem.....

Right now I'd say our secondary is consistently our biggest problem.

[Tracker]

23 minutes ago, do or die said:

The coordinators are a bigger problem.....

No matter if the coordinators are at fault- the person who hired and has kept them is equally responsible.

[do or die]

17 minutes ago, Tracker said:

No matter if the coordinators are at fault- the person who hired and has kept them is equally responsible.

Yup, if this continues

[Noeller]

The secondary has looked like world beaters at times this season...but then there's times, like the final drive in Sask and in Montreal, where they look like they couldn't stop the Rifles from marching on them. Not sure what that means exactly...

[Bigblue204]

15 hours ago, Deiter Fan said:

My thoughts/feelings on this entire situation are constantly evolving. I can't deny that our regular season records have been pretty good since he took over (the first 2 years not withstanding) so he obviously has skills as a coach...and it's probably accurate that he is likely to stay as long as that remains the case.

The fact is we really have little insight into how much influence he has on play calling on either side of the ball...how he runs the locker room (except for the tid-bit he let slip during the call in show this week which, frankly, surprised and concerned me a bit)...or any other number of things that may influence our performance.

In reality we simply have to take what we get and hope that at some point they make it to the show and come home with the Cup because god knows we have no control over it. That is probably what frustrates us the most.

What was said? I missed it.

[Deiter Fan]

13 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

What was said? I missed it.

Paraphrasing...

The guys came in at half-time all fired up over the lead talking about how they were going to run it up in the second half and I told them to calm down and re-focus...which is what good coaches are supposed to do, right? Maybe that was the wrong thing to do. Maybe I should have let them feed off their bravado.

Players feed off momentum and he wanted them to forget about all the momentum they built up in the first half and go out as if it was zero-zero.

Edited September 26, 2019 by Deiter Fan