GDT - Little Kitties @ Blue Bombers

[rebusrankin]

I could see Miller and Walters letting MOS go and making Lapo head coach again. I mean it would likely lead to less season tickets sold and even more apathy among the fanbase but I could see it.I could also see them keeping MOS as long as he fired both Hall and Lapo. My current prediction is we bring the whole band back again and its a season like 2004.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

Quote

“Throw that out the window,” Lawler said afterward. “All I care about is winning and getting it for my teammates and my brothers out there fighting with me. Without the win, those catches and yards don’t sit well with me.

“I’d rather have the ‘W’ with no catches.”

I like him even more now.

[Noeller]

19 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

I could see Miller and Walters letting MOS go and making Lapo head coach again. 

Not in a hundred million years. Will absolutely never happen. 

[Deiter Fan]

 

21 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

I could see Miller and Walters letting MOS go and making Lapo head coach again. 

 

36 minutes ago, blueandgoldguy said:

Best not to completely rule it out.

Edited September 29, 2019 by Deiter Fan

[trueBlue83]

I'd love to see Khari take over, but I can see him extended in Montreal the way he's righted that ship!  Really seems to love his squad too, so even with the history with the Bombers, don't see him jumping ship.

[kelownabomberfan]

12 minutes ago, trueBlue83 said:

I'd love to see Khari take over, but I can see him extended in Montreal the way he's righted that ship!  Really seems to love his squad too, so even with the history with the Bombers, don't see him jumping ship.

Anyone see Khari's aftergame speech they showed during the Lions game tonight? 

"We beat the refs"

SMH

Sorry, the refs were not against you.

[trueBlue83]

1 minute ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Anyone see Khari's aftergame speech they showed during the Lions game tonight? 

"We beat the refs"

SMH

Sorry, the refs were not against you.

didn't quite understand that comment?  the questionable review on the Wieneke catch, the no ejection of Adams... don't quite see how he felt the refs could have been against them?  Because of a pass interference call on the Bombers second last drive!?   He was just too fired up and blurted whatever out I'd think!

[Esks1975]

Might have been the nine Allouttes penalties vs the four the Bombers got.

[B-F-F-C]

11 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

I could see Miller and Walters letting MOS go and making Lapo head coach again. I mean it would likely lead to less season tickets sold and even more apathy among the fanbase but I could see it.I could also see them keeping MOS as long as he fired both Hall and Lapo. My current prediction is we bring the whole band back again and its a season like 2004.

ok...are you hearing yourself?   You're starting to sound like nasty nate without the tinfoil hat.   Go have a stiff drink and think about what you wrote.   

Normally I would have you write a 10 page single spaced report on why conspiracy theories do not exist.  But given your longterm  tenure here, i'll give you a break. 

Inspector Rebus would go to the Oxford Pub and have a whiskey and a pint.  I suggest you do the same. 

[deepsixemtoboyd]

12 hours ago, blueandgoldguy said:

As for O'shea, his contract is up this year and if he is one and done in the semi-finals (assuming the Bombers don't turn things around to finish first), he won't be back.  1 playoff win in 6 seasons.  Try to find the last CFL coach who lasted into a 7th season with 1 playoff win and no division titles.  I think you will be looking back decades to find one...in fact, I'm not sure it has ever happened. 

Even if O'Shea makes it to the divisional finals and loses I think it's a 50-50 proposition at best that he is back.  Barely above .500 in 6 seasons and no real progress towards a Grey Cup by the looks of this season...him going to bat for Richie Hall this off-season with more of the same results.  He has to wear that.  No, the more I think about it, the more it seems likely anything less than a Grey Cup appearance will likely result in the end of the O'shea era in Winnipeg...

The above gets at the very heart of my post yesterday. The one where I rhetorically queried why the head coach gets a free pass (from some) while his coordinators wear it. This led somebody to ask "who you would have hired" in the off season etc etc.  My point was actually not so much about the need to fire the coordinators but rather the need for the head coach to own his decisions over 6 seasons. There has been ample evidence for a long time that the defense (esp) has not been good enough and - for me - the fact that O'Shea has stubbornly (there's that word again) stuck with Hall for this long is evidence that he lacks the wisdom and/or whatever quality it is that allows more successful head coaches to make timely changes.

I'm also 100% with the posters who suggested: a) the current regime is WAAAAAAAAY too much 'we're just one big happy Blue family' here (i.e. they are too tight with one another to wield the accountability that goes with pro sports everywhere else) and b) that it is certainly not the job of fans to figure out who should replace O'Shea or Hall or Lapo or all three. This feels like the equivalent of my sister-in-law who likes to ask my brother - when he critiques the Jets or Bombers - "do you think you could do better?"

If a surgeon continually botches their surgeries, do you ask the suffering patients to perform surgery on themselves if they think they're so hot? Mike O'Shea is the reputed football doctor in the house. But his team seems to get sick most years about this time; right when they need to be in peak condition. Now I'm no doctor but I can certainly tell when somebody appears ill and it's only responsible to, at some point, ask: "Hey, maybe you should get a second opinion? Maybe you need to see a different doctor?"

For what it's worth, my view is that we've seen the Ritchie Hall **** show enough times now that he should have been gone at least 2 years ago. Lapo (though many here will disagree vehemently) gets a longer leash from me because - overall - the Bombers have scored more points during his tenure here than most other franchises and I think he has consistently been working with a QB (Nichols) with a lower ceiling and considerably less athleticism than the "biggest dogs" we gotta compete with (i.e. Calgary, Hamilton, Edmonton, and now Montreal and Sask).

So for me it comes back to O'Shea. He hired Hall and has stuck with him. He (unlike the other most successful coaches in the CFL - e.g. Buono, Dickenson - who have had success and won championships with different coordinators) has been unwilling to pull the trigger on a switch when needed. I think he is a very likeable and fiercely loyal guy whose players love him and that's great and all...BUT I don't think he's nearly as sharp as the other guys I just mentioned and I have certainly come to doubt whether he will ever get us the holy grail. So for me - like Blue and Gold said - anything short of a Grey Cup appearance and his head's gotta roll. Way too late for him to change coordinators now and save his skin.

Edited September 29, 2019 by deepsixemtoboyd

[BBRT]

15 minutes ago, deepsixemtoboyd said:

The above gets at the very heart of my post yesterday. The one where I rhetorically queried why the head coach gets a free pass (from some) while his coordinators wear it. This led somebody to ask "who you would have hired" in the off season etc etc.  My point was actually not so much about the need to fire the coordinators but rather the need for the head coach to own his decisions over 6 seasons. There has been ample evidence for a long time that the defense (esp) has not been good enough and - for me - the fact that O'Shea has stubbornly (there's that word again) stuck with Hall for this long is evidence that he lacks the wisdom and/or whatever quality it is that allows more successful head coaches to make timely changes.

I'm also 100% with the posters who suggested: a) the current regime is WAAAAAAAAY too much 'we're just one big happy Blue family' here (i.e. they are too tight with one another to wield the accountability that goes with pro sports everywhere else) and b) that it is certainly not the job of fans to figure out who should replace O'Shea or Hall or Lapo or all three. This feels like the equivalent of my sister-in-law who likes to ask my brother - when he critiques the Jets or Bombers - "do you think you could do better?"

If a surgeon continually botches their surgeries, do you ask the suffering patients to perform surgery on themselves if they think they're so hot? Mike O'Shea is the reputed football doctor in the house. But his team seems to get sick most years about this time; right when they need to be in peak condition. Now I'm no doctor but I can certainly tell when somebody appears ill and it's only responsible to, at some point, ask: "Hey, maybe you should get a second opinion? Maybe you need to see a different doctor?"

For what it's worth, my view is that we've seen the Ritchie Hall **** show enough times now that he should have been gone at least 2 years ago. Lapo (though many here will disagree vehemently) gets a longer leash from me because - overall - the Bombers have scored more points during his tenure here than most other franchises and I think he has consistently been working with a QB (Nichols) with a lower ceiling and considerably less athleticism than the "biggest dogs" we gotta compete with (i.e. Calgary, Hamilton, Edmonton, and now Montreal and Hamilton).

So for me it comes back to O'Shea. He hired Hall and has stuck with him. He (unlike the other most successful coaches in the CFL - e.g. Buono, Dickenson - who have had success and won championships with different coordinators) has been unwilling to pull the trigger on a switch when needed. I think he is a very likeable and fiercely loyal guy whose players love him and that's great and all...BUT I don't think he's nearly as sharp as the other guys I just mentioned and I have certainly come to doubt whether he will ever get us the holy grail. So for me - like Blue and Gold said - anything short of a Grey Cup appearance and his head's gotta roll. Way too late for him to change coordinators now and save his skin.

Very well said - I tend to agree with all of your comments. I think MOS staying with Richie Hall way way too long may be his demise! I think any thing other that getting to the Western Finals (and that might be a stretch) means MOS and his Hall will exit stage left. 6 years of MOS with nothing more that a so so record may be enough depending on where the team finishes at the end of the year. If they have to go into Regina for the Semi and then make it to the WF in Calgary it is game set and match for MOS IMHO.

[Mr Dee]

I can’t wait to hear the words “we’re going in a different direction” in regards to the release of their defensive coordinator. Hall’s philosophy is not working for us.

As to the offensive coordinator, I’m assuming (ok, hoping) that he will be hired away from us. There will be no standing in his way this time. When LaPo is on his game, there is nobody better. But, his game only covers 30 minutes or so. Why he doesn’t see the same things as us common fans see, is a mystery to me.

As to O’Shea, I believe he is still protected, but the uncomfortable feeling he must be feeling comes from the rope being tightened, on each side, from his coordinators. 

Now is the time for O’Shea to snap that whip he holds because his Coaches aren’t getting it done, and ultimately, that means him.

He’s got to realize that, as it stands, this is possibly a one shot opportunity, and the team has to be at its best. The preparation for that last game shows we weren’t. He owns that.

All is not lost, but geebus, now is the time to step up. Don’t give me that “we made too many mistakes” line, because we don’t want to hear that anymore.

O’Shea, you’re the leader. 

Lead.

[Mark F]

Thing I don't understand about the team is how they can go from being overwhelmingly better than the team they are playing, first half montreal, to stinking, second half montreal.

and now, against tigercats just being pure crap. After stomping sask into the ground.

and it's not just now that that's happened. It's not new.

And it's more than just the teams they played, or the other things pointed to.

The collapse in Montreal was really strange, like the players just decided to quit playing.

wierd. jekyl and hyde team or maybe...... heckl and jeckyl.

Edited September 29, 2019 by Mark F

[rebusrankin]

1 hour ago, B-F-F-C said:

ok...are you hearing yourself?   You're starting to sound like nasty nate without the tinfoil hat.   Go have a stiff drink and think about what you wrote.   

Normally I would have you write a 10 page single spaced report on why conspiracy theories do not exist.  But given your longterm  tenure here, i'll give you a break. 

Inspector Rebus would go to the Oxford Pub and have a whiskey and a pint.  I suggest you do the same. 

I am a little hurt by the Nate reference but like the Rebus one, so I am going to take your advice and have a pint and a whisky.

[17to85]

11 hours ago, Esks1975 said:

Might have been the nine Allouttes penalties vs the four the Bombers got.

Ok but the bombers routinely take less penalties. That's pretty much one of the most important things for oshea. A "clean" game with few penalties.

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, BBRT said:

Very well said - I tend to agree with all of your comments. I think MOS staying with Richie Hall way way too long may be his demise! I think any thing other that getting to the Western Finals (and that might be a stretch) means MOS and his Hall will exit stage left. 6 years of MOS with nothing more that a so so record may be enough depending on where the team finishes at the end of the year. If they have to go into Regina for the Semi and then make it to the WF in Calgary it is game set and match for MOS IMHO.

There has been speculation in this forum for some time that O'Shea's stubbornness/blind loyalty to "his" people would be his undoing and it appears we are pretty much there. His supporters will point to the quarterback problems and those game or parts of games when the team looked unstoppable, but he has had ample time to fix whatever the hell is wrong with the team and/or subordinate coaches. This is not a personal attack on O'Shea's personality or work ethic. I have little doubt that he has given this his best shot but the results are just not there to support his continued tenure as head coach. We are looking at the classic definition of insanity here if he stays.

Edited September 29, 2019 by Tracker

[Old Bomber Fan]

It is interesting that there are several "new" OC and DCs in the league many who have played the game and many we have overlooked because: 1. we have "proven" coordinators who have been in the league for many years and 2. we did not pursue new names for some reason other than 1.

Seems to me many here wanted Kahari to be our OC a couple of years back but that didn't happen. We had both Dickensons I think at one point and both were let go, now both head coaches.

We need a new outlook and game plan on both sides of the ball. MOS is comfortable in his skin because he has two old coordinators whom he thinks know their way around the CFL. Sad but the game has moved on and left them behind.

It is refreshing to see people want a change up in coordinators, I been saying that, to much displeasure of many here, for many years. MOS I believe the second most tenured coach in our history, is barely above, if he still is, in win/losses and yet he refuses to change coordinators. Is it because he fears for his job if a young upstart comes in and shows him up? I don't know that answer. I only know that we will not go anywhere with what we have. 

As I mentioned in another thread, we have been told our talent has increased each year but our coaching staff has not changed yet we have the same results. That must say something!

As for Buck Pierce being our OC, I'm not so sure. Rational; I have watched our QB and receivers throughout the past two years and have seem little improvement in their abilities at their respective positions. They obviously have talent otherwise they would not be on the team but seems to me they have not progressed. I only have to look at Calgary, Sask, Hamilton to see how QBs are developed and I honestly don't see that here. So can he get results as an OC rather than a QB coach, I'm not sure. But with that said there are lots of good offensive minds out there who may be recent players or students of the game that could certainly do better than our current OC. They may not be successful in all the stats as we currently are but there is an old saying "stats are for losers" and we sure fit that description well!

[Carlos Harper]

Seems the thread has wandered. 

Just wanted to add to the coaching conversation by saying that both  Young and Younger are O Shea guys theoretically working under Hall and good for Richie for putting up with the bs he has taken over the years. Hopefully he has one more book to come.

Theoretical question for the masses: If Mike O'Shea is struck by lightning and can't coach who gets the promotion to interim head coach or does Kyle Walters step in? Lapo is the obvious but Hall was a head coach as well and may be a better pick. Personally would like to see what KW could do.

Time to get ready for Sask imo. Strap your helmet on for this one.

[Tracker]

4 minutes ago, Carlos Harper said:

Seems the thread has wandered. 

Just wanted to add to the coaching conversation by saying that both  Young and Younger are O Shea guys theoretically working under Hall and good for Richie for putting up with the bs he has taken over the years. Hopefully he has one more book to come.

Theoretical question for the masses: If Mike O'Shea is struck by lightning and can't coach who gets the promotion to interim head coach or does Kyle Walters step in? Lapo is the obvious but Hall was a head coach as well and may be a better pick. Personally would like to see what KW could do.

Time to get ready for Sask imo. Strap your helmet on for this one.

I am not sure that having yet another rookie head coach is a good idea- we suffered through a lot of teething problems with O'Shea and this ought to be enough of a veteran team that we do not need to go through another learning curve. Is Trestman available and interested?

[SpeedFlex27]

21 minutes ago, Carlos Harper said:

Seems the thread has wandered. 

Just wanted to add to the coaching conversation by saying that both  Young and Younger are O Shea guys theoretically working under Hall and good for Richie for putting up with the bs he has taken over the years. Hopefully he has one more book to come.

Theoretical question for the masses: If Mike O'Shea is struck by lightning and can't coach who gets the promotion to interim head coach or does Kyle Walters step in? Lapo is the obvious but Hall was a head coach as well and may be a better pick. Personally would like to see what KW could do.

Time to get ready for Sask imo. Strap your helmet on for this one.

Ritchie Hall putting up with crap? When you aren't very good you get crapped on. That's life. If it wasn't for O'Shea he'd have been fired years ago. Most other head coaches would have given Hall an apple & a road map by now. I hope he writes his book elsewhere, thanks. 

[Dr Zaius]

Hire Maas as OC when he gets axed. He's an awful HC, but calls a pretty good and aggressive style game.

[BBRT]

15 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Ritchie Hall putting up with crap? When you aren't very good you get crapped on. That's life. If it wasn't for O'Shea he'd have been fired years ago. Most other head coaches would have given Hall an apple & a road map by now. I hope he writes his book elsewhere, thanks. 

What's with the Apple? Hall does not deserve an Apple nor road map. I would take him to the bus station and point him in any direction away from the Peg.

[do or die]

How long has this coaching staff been together?  Please no more talk about learning experiences or wake up calls.   We're battling for first, and getting a split with Stamps and win over Riders.....can still get there.   It's nut cutting time not excuses time. 

[NorthernSkunk]

I thought the nut-licking posts were bad.....now we gotta cut them ......ugh

[Mark H.]

8 minutes ago, do or die said:

How long has this coaching staff been together?  Please no more talk about learning experiences or wake up calls.   We're battling for first, and getting a split with Stamps and win over Riders.....can still get there.   It's nut cutting time not excuses time. 

And they have a team capable of doing exactly that.  They need to get guys like Hecht to play within their limitations, not play OL who are too badly hurt, and maybe sit one or two players who are obviously mailing it in.  The talent is there - the coaches need to step up.